Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

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Originally Posted by Hontaro

Would it then be better to just F3 F4x3 instead, ie. leaving the F1 out?

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No.

F1 in AF3 is about the same dps as the entire rotation, F4 is substantially more.
Raging Strikes is 20 seconds, you want to get as many hard hitters in there as you can.

I'm hoping the 12 seconds basically allows for F4x2 F1 F4x2 the entire rotation up until dbl B4 refresh(the 10 and 5 second Enoch refresh zones). Since with just 10 seconds in AF3 I just cheese it with F4x3 on the 2nd run onward of the rotation. until Enoch refresh.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I'm hoping the 12 seconds basically allows for F4x2 F1 F4x2 the entire rotation up until dbl B4 refresh(the 10 and 5 second Enoch refresh zones). Since with just 10 seconds in AF3 I just cheese it with F4x3 on the 2nd run onward of the rotation. until Enoch refresh.

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10s AF duration guarantees that as is.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

The guy has logged in since the announcement.

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Dev tracker drew my attention here so I'm gonna chime in. They CANNOT just hand out a ban based on your Evidence. They HAVE to do a proper investigation which can take a bit.To expect otherwise is quite frankly insane because until they have their own investigative proof, it's a case of He Said/She Said. It's also possible action was taken that you're not aware of (IE direct Warnings from a GM and a flag placed on their account to monitor activity) All they've done is announced they implemented new tools to detect stuff. It doesn't mean they've CAUGHT anyone with enough evidence to take action yet.

You've done your part. It's time to walk away from the issue.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

I know what the response from yoshi p said. I'm talking about the response from the quote in my post, " ....is still able to login ingame (Today)...."

If they can still log in, then nothing of significance happened for cheating.

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It's unlikely that they'll ban the person immediately for two reasons:

1) It would verify the name to those who "suspect" but don't know for certain;

2) They're probably searching logs & other information about the user & all their contacts to see if it's more widespread within their "network".

It is also possible that they may really take a hard line & be looking at legal action depending on how the hack was done. There's pretty strong laws in some places covering reverse engineering of software &/or modifications to data transport.

TL;DR Fear not, they'll get their just deserts.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

You don't need a discounted B3 actually. You only have to get to the B3's cast and make it quick cast, and you're fine, you'll have enough MP to do any spell in the game after the B3.

Regardless I did some math a while back and the rotation PPS (assuming you can't/don't want to do F1 F4 X4) it goes F4 X4 with fast B3 > F1 F4 F4 F4 with of course fast B3 > F4 X4 with slow B3.

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Oh, I meant compared to the normal one right now. Fire PPS would be higher with only F4x4, but you'd spend more time in ice relatively, so would it be enough to pull ahead?

Here's what I have, ignoring TC since all rotations can utilize it:

F4 F4 F4 F4 B3 T1 B4 F3 = 504 X 4, 161, 270, 280, 161 = 2888 potency over 22.5 seconds, or 128~ PPS
F4 F4 F1 F4 F4 B3 T1 B4 F3 = 2888 + 324 = 3212 over 25s, or 128~ PPS
F4 F4 F1 F4 F3P B3 T1 B4 F3 = 504 X 3, 324, 432, 161 X 2, 270, 280 = 3140 over 24.5s, or 128~ PPS (situational rotation, MP/Enochian not enough to get your final F4 in)
F4 F4 F1 F4 F4 F3P B3 T1 B4 F3 = 3212 + 432 = 3644 over 27.5s, or 132.5~ PPS (situational rotation, definitely can't always do this even with the proc due to MP/Enochian concerns but can occasionally)

In a vacuum the F4 F4 F1 F4 F4 rotation is one of the most mobile and leads to the average highest PPS due to its proc chance. That said ... with how MP and Enochian work, and TC procs work ... I'd say the F4 F4 F4 F4 rotation probably wins in practice, as simple as it is. If this napkin math is correct then they're all certainly close enough in PPS to go for the more consistent one. The F4X4 rotation also has the higher likelihood of being able to use a TC proc obtained in UI instead of AF, which is a pretty huge gain when that happens - well, it's a gain either way but more of a gain to rep a T1. Any mobility requirements/TC procs that would stop you from getting F4 F4 F4 F4 off can usually just be made into an additional F1 in there to maintain the rotation at some point.

If my napkin math's correct then ... yes I predict it will be wisest to do (opener/Sharpcast rotation) > F4X4 rotation > F4X4 rotation, assuming it's viable to do in the first place time wise. F1 rotations will always have a place if you need that F3P for possible mobility, of course.

If T2 in UI becomes the norm then F4 F4 F4 F4 will be the norm except on rotations where you have nearly full MP. F4 F4 F1 F4 F4 doesn't often let you immediately use T2 or B4 after B3.

Regardless of all that, if the F4X4 rotation works, do it if we get 10,000 MP. 10,200 MP works. 10,000 MP does not.

Wait our new rota is F4 F4 F4 F4 F1 B3 T1 B4 F3?

Definitely not.

It's either the same F4 F4 F1 F4 F4 as current, or F4 F4 F4 F4. Probably depends on MP and mobility requirements.

f4x4 would be totally worth it in situations where you need to do a 3rd blizzard 4 instead of popping a new enochian, since right now you would do 3 f4s and an f1 in whatever order you want for that. There's very few encounters in the game where you'll actually do this though.

Quick question for all you blums, since this discussion came up as my friend finishes leveling to 60.

What's the optimal AoE rotation for Black Mage in 3.x?

I've been not bothering with Enochian for AoE, since I think cycling through Ice weakens the overall rotation, but I'm not sure if that's correct. Basically, mine has been:

F3>F2>F2>F2>Flare (x1-3)> [[ Transpose>(wait for 1 tick)>F3>F2>F2>Flare ]]

With the [[ x ]] part being repeated as long as shit's still alive, cycling to the mob with the most HP left during the F2 casts for the Flare>F3 part. I'm basically just asking if anyone's done the math on whether or not

[[ Transpose>B4>F3>F2>F2>Flare ]]

with Enochian would be higher dps (if you use B4 when you need it, ofc) and/or if there's a better AoE rotation I haven't managed to find that makes use of Enochian (or doesn't).


(Obviously not including buffs here, since I'm just looking for the generic rotation you'd be using most of the time, not the big burst opener, though the question of pot of INT v Max-Ether for bonus Flare is interesting to me)

^ Honestly, for AOE rotations that is pretty much what I use. I do throw is some fire 4s alternating on mobs though for some extra burst on ones that are close to dead though.

mine looks like this:

Sharp cast>F1>Leylines>enochian>F3 proc>F2>f2>f2>Flare>convert>swift cast>Flare>Transpose>Blizzard 4 followed by your rotation while throwing in F4s when needed to busrt down enemies. I am not sure the actual numbers sadly as I play on PS4 and still need to get myself parsed. XD

I will say that it certainly seems to make a difference using enochian though.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

<stuff>
F3>F2>F2>F2>Flare (x1-3)> [[ Transpose>(wait for 1 tick)>F3>F2>F2>Flare ]]
</stuff>

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F3 - F2 - F2 - Flare - Transpose - repeat is the norm. Done correctly, you will always get an instant mana tick after Transpose after the first rotation. B4 is less PPS than one F2 on two targets, and F2 on two targets is not even worth doing. Enochian is mostly number padding for AoE, as the 5% bonus with only 50% uptime rarely does anything meaningful.

One thing you can do is, if you need to burn specific mob(s) fast in where you'd otherwise use AoE, like the 4x dolls in A2S, is to do the single target rotation and replace one F4 with a Flare at the end. Transpose - B1 - B4 - F3 is what I've done after that. I'm not sure if B3 or B1 is better, but B1 gives you full mana and is better PPS than B3, and what time you save with UI3-F3, you lose by casting the B4 first. Or that's the logic I've gone with without doing any maths.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

TL;DR Fear not, they'll get their just deserts.

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I doubt it. Wouldn't be the first shady thing they've done and gotten away with completely. This is just the first that SE has actually said they have a problem with. They wintraded LoV and TT for months without any repercussions.

I did some super rough calculations and thinking in my head while shopping about AoE and B4, and got this:

You have to B4 after every Flare.
Every B4 in AoE makes you lose 0.25xF3 + 0.5xF2 + 0.25xFlare worth of damage on average.
Every B4 in Aoe makes you gain 0.05xF3 + 0.1xF2 + 0.05xFlare + B4 worth of damage on average.
Wait... There's also mana ticks.

After getting here, I realised I needed a calculator, because casting B4 nets you another mana tic that can be used for extra F2 per rotation. After a quick test. you have to wait after every B4 to cast F3 or you might not get the tic because of SS (768 for me and didn't always get. Your mileage may vary depending on latency and button smash.)

Assuming instant mana ticks and 6 mobs (Flare 351 average). REPEAT(stuff) part is your actual rotation after emptying your mana once.

No Eno:

[F3 + F2 + F2 + F2 + Flare] + REPEAT([F3 + F2 + F2 + Flare]) = [240 + 540X + Flare (16,5s)] + [216 + 360X + Flare (13,5s)] = 5586/16,5 + 4482/15

First part: 338.5 PPS
Repeat: 298.8 PPS 15s tick

Eno:

[F3 + F2 + F2 + F2 + Flare] + REPEAT([B4 + F3 + F2 + F2 + F2 + Flare]) = [240 + 540X + Flare (16,5s)]x1,05 + REPEAT([280 + 216 + 540X + Flare (19,5s)]x1,05) = 5865,3/16,5 + 6159,3/21

First part: 355.5 PPS
Repeat: 293.3 PPS 21s ticks

Eno no refresh (have to use Eno after F3 to get second Flare at the start):

[F3 + F2 + F2 + F2 + Flare]x1,05 + REPEAT(2x[F3 + F2 + F2 + Flare]x1,05 + 2x[F3 + F2 + F2 + Flare]) = [240 + 540X + Flare (16,5s)] + REPEAT(2x[216 + 360X + Flare (13,5s)]1,05 + 2x[216 + 360X + Flare (13,5s)]) 5865,3/16,5 + (4706,1/15 + 4706,1/15 + 4482/15 + 4482/15)/4

First part: 355.5 PPS
Repeat: 306.3 PPS 15s ticks

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Don't bother with trying to refresh Eno.

I feel like this is enough math to last me for the rest of the year.

Hi all. Just need some expert guidence on something I have been thinking about.

Due to this new buff is the new stat priority Crit>SS>Det or still SS>Crit>Det? Spell speed was very useful before to give more flexibility in high movement situations although this won't be an issue anymore and we are limited in F4 usage per AF phase by MP anyway.

Fellow Black mages who use a controller , what does your crosshotbar setup look like ?

I am trying a few different configurations out but i am curious how you have yours set up .

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Originally Posted by thorgal

Fellow Black mages who use a controller , what does your crosshotbar setup look like ?

I am trying a few different configurations out but i am curious how you have yours set up .

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I have 2 bars. one for single target and the other for AoE. Also it is important to have everything you can use while running on YBXY.

Another question: Monk or BLM for the DPS without much utility. We have a MCH in our group. I love bot classes and want to be maximum useful for our scrub team.

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Originally Posted by OmegaStrongtan

I have 2 bars. one for single target and the other for AoE. Also it is important to have everything you can use while running on YBXY.

Another question: Monk or BLM for the DPS without much utility. We have a MCH in our group. I love bot classes and want to be maximum useful for our scrub team.

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You shouldn't be choosing between Monk or BLM unless your static is running double casters I guess, but assuming they are, definitely go for Monk.

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Originally Posted by thorgal

Fellow Black mages who use a controller , what does your crosshotbar setup look like ?

I am trying a few different configurations out but i am curious how you have yours set up .

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http://puu.sh/ngxQf/b4c3669128.jpg
http://puu.sh/ngxRO/af1dac1690.jpg

First is my main bar. Second is extended. R2>L2 opens the right side, L2>R2 opens the left side. I have two horizontal bars set up over top to keep track of cooldowns. I mostly have it there since I use it on DRG so figured I might as well take advantage of it, even though I hardly look at it on BLM. If I were to raid on BLM and wanted pots, I'd more than likely pull the Max Ether off and replace it with an INT pot. When I get Quelling, it's probably replacing Aetherial Manipulation, which will in turn eat up my B2 or Freeze button.

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Originally Posted by Isala

I doubt it. Wouldn't be the first shady thing they've done and gotten away with completely. This is just the first that SE has actually said they have a problem with. They wintraded LoV and TT for months without any repercussions.

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That's actually allowed though (surprisingly), modifying the way the game works to gain an advantage isn't.

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

You shouldn't be choosing between Monk or BLM unless your static is running double casters I guess, but assuming they are, definitely go for Monk.

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3 x Melee will be even more optimal unless there is a specific mechanic that makes it sub optimal (Physical Resist/Heavy AOE/Magic weakness)

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Originally Posted by Hingin_Mince

Hi all. Just need some expert guidence on something I have been thinking about.

Due to this new buff is the new stat priority Crit>SS>Det or still SS>Crit>Det? Spell speed was very useful before to give more flexibility in high movement situations although this won't be an issue anymore and we are limited in F4 usage per AF phase by MP anyway.

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Will still be SS>Crit>Det, mainly to try and do 5 x F4 during Ley Lines.

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Originally Posted by Lego3400

Dev tracker drew my attention here so I'm gonna chime in. They CANNOT just hand out a ban based on your Evidence. They HAVE to do a proper investigation which can take a bit.To expect otherwise is quite frankly insane because until they have their own investigative proof, it's a case of He Said/She Said. It's also possible action was taken that you're not aware of (IE direct Warnings from a GM and a flag placed on their account to monitor activity) All they've done is announced they implemented new tools to detect stuff. It doesn't mean they've CAUGHT anyone with enough evidence to take action yet.

You've done your part. It's time to walk away from the issue.

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I never said they should hand out a ban based on the evidence in this thread (although it is pretty damning when combined with the video). If they've "conducted an investigation based on official logs that were accumulated within the development team" as they have said, then surely it is just a matter of looking at this player in question and handing out the relevent punishment - especially before 3.2.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

It's unlikely that they'll ban the person immediately for two reasons:

1) It would verify the name to those who "suspect" but don't know for certain;

2) They're probably searching logs & other information about the user & all their contacts to see if it's more widespread within their "network".

It is also possible that they may really take a hard line & be looking at legal action depending on how the hack was done. There's pretty strong laws in some places covering reverse engineering of software &/or modifications to data transport.

TL;DR Fear not, they'll get their just deserts.

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I hope that is the case, although that hasn't been the case previously when people have used Position Hacks to clear turns of coil during progression.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

3 x Melee will be even more optimal unless there is a specific mechanic that makes it sub optimal (Physical Resist/Heavy AOE/Magic weakness)

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Maybe, but going 3x Melee for progression is a stupid idea since you can't guarantee there won't be a mechanic that enforces having a caster like the things you mentioned.

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

Maybe, but going 3x Melee for progression is a stupid idea since you can't guarantee there won't be a mechanic that enforces having a caster like the things you mentioned.

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Or you take a caster that can play Melee well. Flexibility when going for Server or even World Firsts is nice. Obviously this is in a perfect world scenario and you can't gear up multiple classes, but I guess that's what alts are for.

Wish I was in the position to be able to do it, would be fun.

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Originally Posted by HaroldSaxon

Or you take a caster that can play Melee well. Flexibility when going for Server or even World Firsts is nice. Obviously this is in a perfect world scenario and you can't gear up multiple classes, but I guess that's what alts are for.

Wish I was in the position to be able to do it, would be fun.

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I think BLM and SMN do comparable DPS to NIN/DRG in the majority of fights where that is not necessary. Depending on your group, you may have to switch out a caster for a melee main if another melee DPS would make a difference. Some mechanics can definitely be harder to execute with 3 melees.

For the F4, F4, F1, F4, F4, versus F4 x 4.

My current spell speed (BiS ignoring Diadem and using Eso 210 weapon)
2.5sec GCD = 2.32 sec
3 sec GCD = 2.78 sec
3.5 sec GCD = 3.25 sec

F4 F4 F4 F4 B3 T1 B4 F3 = 20.86 seconds. If Thundercloud Procs
F4 F4 F4 F4 T3P Transpose B3 B4 F3 = 21.79 seconds.

I do not know if you really need to use B3 if you get a proc, it would depend on your mana but if we assume you don't need it, the rotation would be :
F4 F4 F4 F4 T3P Transpose B4 F3 = 19.47 seconds. The problem with this rotation also is that F4x4 is 11.12 seconds. It's really tight to use a proc then transpose, you might transpose into nothing and you'll lose a ton of DPS. However, we haven't placed Swiftcast anywhere. The rotation could be :
F4 F4 F4 F4 T3P Swift B3 B4 F3 = 20.68 sec

You can easily start to assume where I'm going with that.

3 rotation of 20 seconds fix the usage of our cooldowns that we often delay.

If we go F4 F4 F1 F4 F4 B3 T1 B4 F3. It would be 23.18 seconds.
Worst, if you get a F3P, it becomes 25.5 seconds.
If you get a T3P, it would be... 27.82 seconds.

With Leylines, the GCDs become.

2.5sec GCD = 1.972 sec
3 sec GCD = 2.363 sec
3.5 sec GCD = 2.7625 sec

F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 = 11.815 seconds. That's a bit too tight unless we pump more Spell Speed or we have Selene.

With Selene and Leylines :

2.5sec GCD = 1.9024 sec
3 sec GCD = 2.2796 sec
3.5 sec GCD = 2.665 sec

F4 F4 F4 F4 F4 = 11.398 sec

I don't think the F4x5 opener would work because this would mean Flare won't get any boost so I highly doubt we'll get any gain. We'd need an Haste card from Astrologian with Selene and Leylines.

However, we can use Leylines twice per Raging Strikes. I think the most optimal rotation right now would be

F4 F4 F1 F4 F4 B3 T1 B4 F3 still. With Leylines, the rotation is 19.703 seconds.
F4 F4 F1 F4 F3P F4 B3 T1 B4 F3 = 21.675 seconds

I haven't calculate the Off-GCDs we use but the second Leylines should be in the middle of the second rotation. An optimal rotation should look something like :

[F4 F4 F4 F4 B3 T1 B4 F3] [F4 F4 F4 F4 B3 T1 B4 F3] [F4 F4 F4 F4 B3 T1 B4 F3] around 1 minute.
We need to add Sharpcast + Swiftcast
[F4 F4 F4 F4 B3 SharpT1 B4 F3] [F4 F4 F4 F4 T3P SwiftB3 B4 F3] [F4 F4 F4 F4 B3 T1 B4 F3] around 1 minute.
The problem is multiple Thundercloud Procs. We need more Spell Speed.

If we add the second Leylines in the rotation
[F4 F4 F4 F4 B3 SharpT1 B4 F3] [F4 F4 Leylines F4 F4 T3P SwiftB3 B1** B4 F3] [F4 F4 F1 F4 F4 F3P* B3 T1 B4 F3]
* If F1 procs
** We might need a filler to be full mana.

Leylines will do about 0.6 seconds to set. Leylines saves 0.417 sec per F4. So we are safe.

That's roughly what's been in my head so far about the changes. I think we need more spellspeed, I'm trying to work around a new rotation. I found one that I think could work and if I'm correct is about 1.3% better than what we have (with a 57% chance of getting a Thundercloud proc)

I figured this information won't hurt anybody.

Here is my Black Mage guide. My hope is to get this out there for all Black Mages who are new to the game and looking for guidance. If you have any input, please feel free to make any suggestions and I will test them. I would like to thank all of you for your support and contributions to this community.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

[F4 F4 Leylines F4 F4 T3P SwiftB3 B1** B4 F3]
** We might need a filler to be full mana.

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I don't think you will ever need to use the filler B1 because Swift B3 + F4 are 2 GCDs since UI3 will trigger as soon as you cast out the B3.

Also why do you use T3p in your Fire rotation instead of Ice rotation?

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

snip

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In 3.0 Opener, the Blizzard3 opener I think there's a mistake: You use Swiftcast+Thunder3, so Sharpcast+Enochian should have close 0 time since you use it during the GCD.
Also, another pro of that opener is that you may get Thunder procs with which you can or can not (we'll see) replace F4s and give you higher mobility.

In AoE rotation, you should add F3 after Transpose and then repeat. I'm also not sure if Flare is recommended on 2 targets since it will leave you with 0 MP and UI1.

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Originally Posted by lulunami

I think BLM and SMN do comparable DPS to NIN/DRG in the majority of fights where that is not necessary. Depending on your group, you may have to switch out a caster for a melee main if another melee DPS would make a difference. Some mechanics can definitely be harder to execute with 3 melees.

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But they don't buff the DPS of other party members. So for group DPS, they don't. And if you run a MCH with hypercharge (which you really should) will mean you get more out of it.

So do we now need just enough spell speed to do our rotation and then stack crit? If so, what amount is good? I'm very confused, I liked to be speedy :(

Faster rotation execution will still be a straight dps gain for BLM since we're not bound by finite resources.

Edit:
F4 x4 without Ley Lines does not work with 792 Spell Speed (2.80s per F4).

I didn't actually try doing F4x4, but from looking at the timers, I was no where close to pulling that off. Like two seconds remaining after 3xF4.

E: Not doable with 768 SS. AF3 drops about 3/4 through the fourth F4.

Well, BLM is fixed now. No more waiting to cast tier 4s on a change between AF / UI. Feels extremely smooth. Just what I wanted.

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Originally Posted by Waryax

So do we now need just enough spell speed to do our rotation and then stack crit? If so, what amount is good? I'm very confused, I liked to be speedy :(

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You get enough spellspeed to do your rotation, then you get even more spellspeed.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

For the F4, F4, F1, F4, F4, versus F4 x 4.

My current spell speed (BiS ignoring Diadem and using Eso 210 weapon)
2.5sec GCD = 2.32 sec
3 sec GCD = 2.78 sec
3.5 sec GCD = 3.25 sec

F4 F4 F4 F4 B3 T1 B4 F3 = 20.86 seconds. If Thundercloud Procs
F4 F4 F4 F4 T3P Transpose B3 B4 F3 = 21.79 seconds.

I do not know if you really need to use B3 if you get a proc, it would depend on your mana but if we assume you don't need it, the rotation would be :
F4 F4 F4 F4 T3P Transpose B4 F3 = 19.47 seconds. The problem with this rotation also is that F4x4 is 11.12 seconds. It's really tight to use a proc then transpose, you might transpose into nothing and you'll lose a ton of DPS. However, we haven't placed Swiftcast anywhere. The rotation could be :
F4 F4 F4 F4 T3P Swift B3 B4 F3 = 20.68 sec
.

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I like what you've done with the place. But wouldn't it make more sense to swiftcast the last F4 instead of the B3?
You gain more time to cast B3 from AF (0.3 seconds-ish).
Also is this for the opener? We have to figure out almost 10 more seconds if it is. We don't want to waste any Enochian if we can help it.
I was thinking something like F3-Enochian-F4-F4-F4-F1-F4-Convert-F4-Swift-F4-B3-T1-B4 and we still have time left over because we don't need to sharpcast F1/F3P for the last F4s anymore.
We can now sharpcast T1 or something instead and with the extra AF/UI time we can afford to put in extra T3P all over the place and still hit our F4s.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

I like what you've done with the place. But wouldn't it make more sense to swiftcast the last F4 instead of the B3?
You gain more time to cast B3 from AF (0.3 seconds-ish).
Also is this for the opener? We have to figure out almost 10 more seconds if it is. We don't want to waste any Enochian if we can help it.
I was thinking something like F3-Enochian-F4-F4-F4-F1-F4-Convert-F4-Swift-F4-B3-T1-B4 and we still have time left over because we don't need to sharpcast F1/F3P for the last F4s anymore.
We can now sharpcast T1 or something instead and with the extra AF/UI time we can afford to put in extra T3P all over the place and still hit our F4s.

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Probably makes more sense to go F4/F4/F4/T3*/Sw/F4/B3 - Using swiftcast weaved between two F4's is a dps loss due to the animation lock.

Rotations aside, has anyone started to think about gear and melds?
I want to stack me some nice spell speed crit :)
Oh and thoughts on the Sephiroth Weapon?
Just curious what fellow black mages are thinking

Will be pushing for all the Spell Speed gear. Sephirot staff has nice spell speed but I am a wimp at Extreme fights.

But Lore pants is best option for SpS.