Pictomancer is insanely overtuned and needs to be fixed before savage drops.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

The issue lies more with Physical Ranged being shafted time and time again. The problem is that we now have a job that actually can outperform Ranged by a substantial degree due to its burst, and also raw damage that it throws at the boss per GCD - it's on average stronger than what Ranged can throw at it, even if it is based on your Aetherhues. Reason why Savage actually isn't locked out for Ranged is because of the fact that they tuned their damage properly for it so that PCT Shields can't even outdo it without overgearing. We're still early on though, but come Alliance Raid Patch we're going to start to see Ranged be the outlier, even with their raid buff suite(except for MCH - they don't see the light of day).

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Physical ranged are just as far behind the melee as they are behind PCT, I agree how far the phys ranged (and the rezz casters) is a problem but how is that a unique problem to pictomancers balancing position specifically. It’s not like this problem didn’t exist with EW BLM as well as the EW melee with respect to the EW phys ranged

Kinda changing the subject but I feel like it’s interesting that Pictomancer ‘feels’ so ‘op’ to play (putting actual numerical output aside).

Because ultimately isn’t that how every job should feel? .

I think one of the reasons Pictomancer seems ‘busted’ is because it genuinely feels powerful to play with valuable support that makes a tangible difference to the party with Tempera Grassa. Holy in White / Comet in Black and Smudge give it flexibility with movement. Even making the decision to use Subtractive Pallet for the long casts feels like you’re actively making decisions with satisfying pay-offs.

Physical ranged is essentially the exact opposite which is funny given the balance issues reflect this.

Nothing they do feels valuable or ‘powerful’, and you’re rarely ever making active decisions over following rotation/procs/etc. I mean, Bards literally have Esuna and Mantra as their ‘support’. I think I’d genuinely rather have the tacked on healing potency Star Prism has lol. Dancer’s Curing Waltz is really good to be fair, but then Improvisation is so hilarious it literally doesn’t even get used for it’s intended function (people flash-apply it between GCDs so it may as well not even have a channeled component). I mean, what’s up with a skill whose main purpose is ‘you use me when you’re in combat but there are no enemies present’ lol. Machinists have…a wrench. lol.

Tl;dr basically I think a lot of the issues with Pictomancer compared to other jobs like physical ranged isn’t just the numerical disparity but largely in how they ‘feel’ to play.

The current issue since the balancing patch is not the Pictomancer,
but the fact that the Black Mage, all physical ranged DPS, the Red Mage, and the Summoner are severely lacking in firepower.

For Phys Range I think MCH can be brought up to at least PCT levels, do a similar system where its filler is mediocre but it has incredible burst damage.
I know machinist already does good nDPS but the current game boils mostly down to rDPS. For Bard and Dancer though I really don't know what can be done to fix them besides a full role rework because their support and utility is not worth it compared to the damage and utility casters bring and with Bard being probably one of the hardest jobs in the game its really not worth getting good at because Dancer does its job just as good at an equal level with much less skill, what people are saying about BLM and PCT actually does exist in DNC and BRD the skill floor gap is so much bigger but theres zero reward in getting good at BRD.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

For Phys Range I think MCH can be brought up to at least PCT levels, do a similar system where its filler is mediocre but it has incredible burst damage.

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You do that, and BRD and DNC become invalidated instantly, regardless of skill level. DNC may be fine due to SAM/PCT but that's it. This discussion already happened in Abyssos. The damage of "selfish" jobs depends entirely on themselves, and thus don't require others to perform well. They should still abuse the buffs of others for further increases, but they're not hindered by comp in the same way that buffing jobs can be (e. g. DNC's DP).

Imho, in the short term MCH would need to have a party buff. The long term solution would be to rework the ranged physical range role and/or not tie the strongest point of most jobs into the 120s burst window.

I like that pictomancer is so strong. That means more carry potential if you play as or with a pct you know in PF.

I mentioned it in another thread but as others have said.... Phys Range is in a really bad place. Three patches since expansion and not a single change to some of them while others have had vast increases.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I play BRD and damage seems fine. I don't expect it to do BLM damage. It's straight up easier to play, especially in DT where BLM is in the worst state probably since early expansions.

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I mean, I’d say Bard is the polar opposite of Pictomancer in a way in that even though it’s numerically fine, playing it just doesn’t really feel like you’re actually bringing anything of value. Whereas with Pictomancer even when you’re not actually doing super big dps, it still feels like you’re ‘bringing something worthwhile’ to the party with Tempera etc, even though it’s not actually anything incredible lol.

Like Bard just has Nature’s Minne which I don’t think people value particularly highly lol, and Lolsuna on a 45-sec cool-down. Troubadour actually does feel good to use since mitigation is so important now, but it’s also essentially a role skill lol.

Personally I think a lot of it’s to do with Pictomancer being much more active while other jobs like Bard or Dancer have more passive contributions. Like they just happen as part of your damage rotation. I don’t think people are like ‘wow, my singing added a whole 1% damage to the party!’. Like, it’s numerically super powerful, but that’s never really impressed upon the player in the way Pictomancer’s is with drawing motifs leading to big damage or Tempera’s cool-down reduction.

Basically I think Pictomancer is really good with ‘feedback’ in terms of contribution being more easily observable than other jobs. Like, you can see a shield but you can’t see mits if that make sense (unless you like awkwardly hover over them I guess lol). Maybe that’s part of what makes it feel so ‘powerful’ compared to other jobs?

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Originally Posted by Connor

I mean, I’d say Bard is the polar opposite of Pictomancer in a way in that even though it’s numerically fine, playing it just doesn’t really feel like you’re actually bringing anything of value. Whereas with Pictomancer even when you’re not actually doing super big dps, it still feels like you’re ‘bringing something worthwhile’ to the party with Tempera etc, even though it’s not actually anything incredible lol.

Like Bard just has Nature’s Minne which I don’t think people value particularly highly lol, and Lolsuna on a 45-sec cool-down. Troubadour actually does feel good to use since mitigation is so important now, but it’s also essentially a role skill lol.

Personally I think a lot of it’s to do with Pictomancer being much more active while other jobs like Bard or Dancer have more passive contributions. Like they just happen as part of your damage rotation. I don’t think people are like ‘wow, my singing added a whole 1% damage to the party!’. Like, it’s numerically super powerful, but that’s never really impressed upon the player in the way Pictomancer’s is with drawing motifs leading to big damage or Tempera’s cool-down reduction.

Basically I think Pictomancer is really good with ‘feedback’ in terms of contribution being more easily observable than other jobs. Like, you can see a shield but you can’t see mits if that make sense (unless you like awkwardly hover over them I guess lol). Maybe that’s part of what makes it feel so ‘powerful’ compared to other jobs?

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I'm not sure how much of that is just PCT being shiny and new, both in terms of visuals and in terms of its rotation being reworked and ruined like every other Job.

That said I'm a PCT extremist and I've always said it has too much utility for the DPS it does and vice versa.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I'm not sure how much of that is just PCT being shiny and new, both in terms of visuals and in terms of its rotation being reworked and ruined like every other Job.

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It’s very possible lol. By the time next expansion comes around it may very well end up as lacklustre as the other jobs ended up becoming (assuming devs don’t change their approach to job design). Probably in the name of ‘streamlining’ that nobody ever asked for lol. As for the balancing itself as a more casual player I find Pictomancer fun; even if they did need to adjust its damage output or whatever, it wouldn’t affect whether I played the job or not for me, as long as the playstyle remained the same. In terms of actual numerical balancing though, I have no idea what would be ‘most ideal’ really. But personally I like the utility of the job too so I’d be sad to see that go