Please reconsider 7.0 BLM changes

Eksu Plosion Analysis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJkZJInrEBo&t=1s

Not looking good folks.

For everyone crying about non-standard being a thing: Try to imagine doing Pantokrator with standard.

You have to poke your nose into non-standard rotations in order to keep gcd uptime during Panto otherwise you're just gonna be pressing scathe for half the mechanic.

I'm slightly overexaggerating but you get the idea. It's not a pretty thought either way.

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Originally Posted by JoshiKousei

For everyone crying about non-standard being a thing: Try to imagine doing Pantokrator with standard.

You have to poke your nose into non-standard rotations in order to keep gcd uptime during Panto otherwise you're just gonna be pressing scathe for half the mechanic.

I'm slightly overexaggerating but you get the idea. It's not a pretty thought either way.

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Bold to assume that a large number of those supporting the DT changes play BLM on high-end content- or play BLM at all :>

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

Bold to assume that a large number of those supporting the DT changes play BLM on high-end content- or play BLM at all :>

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TRUE AND REAL

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Non-standard existed as long as Black Mage existed. Even in StB there were lines where you skipped Blizzard IV and opted for shorter Fire lines on occasion, especially pre-Blizzard IV buff. ShB with instantcast xenoglossy and Despair also had Blizzard IV skip for the 3-4 Fire iV -> Despair lines. The goal is the same as standard - maximizing Fire IVs, but in a more compact window. Endwalker simply expanded on it with Paradox - essentially a beefed up Blizzard I in Umbral Ice and a juicier Firestarter enabler in Astral Fire. If anything, current Black Mage, minus perhaps MP regeneration (debatable on who you ask), is currently the most well designed version for both the average person wanting to learn the job and wanting to optimize it.

However, as I need to repeat along with the others for the xth time because players including yourself seem to not understand this - it's called non-standard for a reason. If non-standard was actually mandatory, it would be called STANDARD. The fact it is called non-standard should heavily imply that it is an OPTION, not a must and the difference between standard and non-standard is miniscule and basically just a point of optimisation and, as others pointed out, aligning things better in specific phases and cooldowns, not just in ultimates mind you.

Calling the shortening of Fire lines to align cooldowns and aspect shifts better to the flow of a fight an abuse of class design is just incredibly short-sighted; the fact that Black Mage is so free flowing and allows for this is what makes it a BETTER designed job rather than being the 11th dps with a strict rotational gameplan with minimal deviation. Players should be rewarded for creativity in using their kit, not be punished and have their options ripped out for doing something else.

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The irony is other posters saying good luck doing x or y mechanic without non standard so.. you guys need to agree on how non mandatory it is or not. The intended design and gameplay of the job being incapable of handling such situations is a bad thing, I don't think it meant non std had to die but std had to be adjusted and if it means non std changes with it then fine imo. Why would you hamstring a job for the 1% of players who use that playstyle? BLM is not getting much consideration when they are making the fights but they obviously realise how it is now is not acceptable.

Y'all need to make up your minds if non std is mandatory or not cause you all contradict each other. If the content needs non std to complete x mechanic then guess what it's mandatory.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

The irony is other posters saying good luck doing x or y mechanic without non standard so.. you guys need to agree on how non mandatory it is or not. The intended design and gameplay of the job being incapable of handling such situations is a bad thing, I don't think it meant non std had to die but std had to be adjusted and if it means non std changes with it then fine imo. Why would you hamstring a job for the 1% of players who use that playstyle? BLM is not getting much consideration when they are making the fights but they obviously realise how it is now is not acceptable.

Y'all need to make up your minds if non std is mandatory or not cause you all contradict each other. If the content needs non std to complete x mechanic then guess what it's mandatory.

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Almost no one said standard didn't need improvement but not at the price of flexibility. That's what makes us annoyed. Why does it have to be everything or nothing in all these discussion?
Just make it so all spells give mana in ice phase and both sides would have been happy for the mana regeneration change.

This is just regarding the mana and standard / nonstandard stuff.
Of course everyone also has different opinions on the thunder stuff and the new fire finisher.

The thing is that "non-standard" rotations have always been part of BLM, even for mediocre players, but specifically as least-bad-of-several-bad-options responses to fights that interrupted your ability to simply sit and cast to your heart's content. The simplest version of these is something like, it's optimal to Triplecast into F4-F4-Despair, but sometimes you have to move earlier than that, so to avoid interruption you have to triplecast F4-Paradox-F4 instead. Or you're not going to be able to finish your astral cycle so you cast Despair early. Or you literally can't stand still even to cast a quick F3 so you stay in Umbral for an extra GCD that you use on a too-early Thunder refresh. Stuff like that. The BLM rotation has always been fairly mutable, since you don't cast spells in a set order but rather on the basis of where your timers are and how much MP you have left and whether you can stand still.

ShB/EW found some very specific and difficult to execute non-standard rotations that not only fit certain movement requirements that standard didn't, but also did higher damage than standard did, and did this by outright skipping (at least some of the time) spells core to the standard rotation's progression. I think it's good to make sure that you don't end up doing more damage by avoiding spells that are core to the kit; BLM's actual optimal, best-on-paper rotation should be obvious and intuitive, and the challenge of the class should be trying to stay as close to that rotation as possible despite enemies trying to interrupt you and chase you around the arena.

DT keeps timers and cast times, so DT BLMs will wind up using swiftcast/triplecast on movement rather than damage, occasionally biting the bullet and just skipping their sixth F4 in order to avoid dropping Enochian all together, making questionable decisions as to when to refresh Thunder or spend a Polyglot because they've left themselves with literally nothing better to cast, etc. But it'd probably be good if it were a little harder to miss out on the opportunity to cast Flare Star at all, or if there was a little more to do in the ice phase, or stuff like that.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

The irony is other posters saying good luck doing x or y mechanic without non standard so.. you guys need to agree on how non mandatory it is or not. The intended design and gameplay of the job being incapable of handling such situations is a bad thing, I don't think it meant non std had to die but std had to be adjusted and if it means non std changes with it then fine imo. Why would you hamstring a job for the 1% of players who use that playstyle? BLM is not getting much consideration when they are making the fights but they obviously realise how it is now is not acceptable.

Y'all need to make up your minds if non std is mandatory or not cause you all contradict each other. If the content needs non std to complete x mechanic then guess what it's mandatory.

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It isn't 1% of BLM players who use nonstandard rotations. There are dozens of reasonably solid nonstandard rotations available and every BLM player uses at least one of them some of the time. The finicky ones extremely tight on timing are not commonly used; however, any time you have to spend a lot of gameplay moving, or the boss goes untargetable, all solutions that involve continuing to attack the boss will be a nonstandard rotation.

Nonstandard is a catch-all for basically all forms of "black mage, adjust".

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Eksu Plosion Analysis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJkZJInrEBo&t=1s

Not looking good folks.

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When Eksu made it to AoE part, the way i gasped out loud when is saw optimized AoE rotation. I know its just potencies being kinda wack, but still, thats was to funny.

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Originally Posted by wildvenonat

It isn't 1% of BLM players who use nonstandard rotations. There are dozens of reasonably solid nonstandard rotations available and every BLM player uses at least one of them some of the time. The finicky ones extremely tight on timing are not commonly used; however, any time you have to spend a lot of gameplay moving, or the boss goes untargetable, all solutions that involve continuing to attack the boss will be a nonstandard rotation.

Nonstandard is a catch-all for basically all forms of "black mage, adjust".

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It's a little bit more nuanced than that. Non-standard at its core is "how can I do more damage with the tools available to me." Certain lines having more movement are either a by product of the amount of instants used for that line or are a result of you actively seeking out that line to maintain gcd uptime during a movement heavy mechanic.