A game for 4 year olds

Case in point: the new variant dungeon actually explores a true-to-the-definition genocide that happened in-universe of the game world.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Gonna spoiler-tag this out of courtesy for the people who haven't yet done it, which I suspect the most talkative people here might not have!

'Robots learn they have feelings' is not exactly a new concept even in this game, but I'm a sucker for it. And I like that a not insignificant part of the quest is about Jammingway having to meet N-7000 where it's at, rather than entirely N-7000 being the one doing the growing.

Interesting that the Nibirun still haven't been resolved; the Bloodsworn capstone is rarely used for story development, so maybe they're beeing held back for another quest. Perhaps the allied tribe quest?

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Will there even be an allied tribe questline in the future ? SHB didn't get one, so i was under the impression that they won't do these anymore.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

No, the thing that makes it fictionalized is that it's a complete bag of fantastical nonsense that doesn't resemble any act that's ever happened in human history.

I've stopped comparing acts by Hydaelyn or the Ascians as genocide, because to do so would be to take away from the serious nature of genocide as a concept; it does not deserve to be thrown around to refer to fantastical fictional concepts like the Sundering, a worldwide flood, or even a Rejoining; not to mention, pinning that badge on those story beats is very clearly against the spirit of what the game is trying to do with all of those story beats. The term 'genocide' should reasonably only be brought up when referring to things that actually resemble real-world acts that have been called such, of which FFXIV is not free of, so we should probably save that term for when it's more apropos.


Incidentally, have you been doing the quests that you started this thread to talk about? Because I have, and I find it more interesting than this derail, so let's get back to it.

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If that goes against the plot of the game then it shouldn't have been what they wrote, they even do a scene where she condemns the ancients before succouring them for existence and I don't appreciate your gatekeeping, genocide seems a apt term where she exterminates a race and its' culture for having the wrong kind of biology and society

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

No, the thing that makes it fictionalized is that it's a complete bag of fantastical nonsense that doesn't resemble any act that's ever happened in human history.

I've stopped comparing acts by Hydaelyn or the Ascians as genocide, because to do so would be to take away from the serious nature of genocide as a concept; it does not deserve to be thrown around to refer to fantastical fictional concepts like the Sundering, a worldwide flood, or even a Rejoining; not to mention, pinning that badge on those story beats is very clearly against the spirit of what the game is trying to do with all of those story beats. The term 'genocide' should reasonably only be brought up when referring to things that actually resemble real-world acts that have been called such, of which FFXIV is not free of, so we should probably save that term for when it's more apropos.

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No, a bag of fantastical nonsense does not negate the actual similarities. Just because you don’t want to process it does not make it so distant from the real-life events. Anyway, I agree that the term “genocide” should be used for events that actually resemble it, so let’s see.

“ In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group." These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly.”

Pretty much all of this applies to Venat except transferring children. She acted with the intent to destroy and eliminate ancients because with reasoning that is very similar to eugenics as well, “they were born unable to interact with Dynamis and thus are imperfect”. The erasure of memory also meant annihilation of their culture, which is yet another common trait of genocide. It’s not hard to play the game if that’s what you wish to do.

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Originally Posted by Ayche

Case in point: the new variant dungeon actually explores a true-to-the-definition genocide that happened in-universe of the game world.

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Yeah, Si'Dih actually IS a pretty clear-cut example of genocide by actual real-world comaprisons, even down to using familiar tools to do it. Smooshing planets into each other or magically separating everyone's soul into fourteen pieces is something rather different than actual use of a bioweapon plague to eradicate an entire people and then build on top of their corpses. (The variant dungeon's great, by the way, I wish I had more time to plumb at it than I do right now.)

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Originally Posted by RukoBoshi

Will there even be an allied tribe questline in the future ? SHB didn't get one, so i was under the impression that they won't do these anymore.

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Shadowbringers didn't get one for the same reason DSR got delayed; as much as they were able to get done in pandemic conditions, the delays that resulted still meant things had to get cut, and they (rightly) prioritized the stuff that's a lot more mainstream. Shadowbringers also had the excuse of being pretty far away from the guy that's usually the impetus for the allied quests, so it was also pretty easy for them to say 'yeah we won't do it this time'. No evidence says they'll do the same for Endwalker's. And I hope they don't, I can't imagine a better match for the Hippo Riders than a pretty far-flung restaurant!

And back on topic......

Whilst I haven't played this yet (I haven't looked levelling Disciples of the Land yet) I do hope they continue it. It'd be really interesting to get mini-Midgardsormr's view on these events.

I think I'm mostly interested in the potential question of whether or not the denizens of Ultima Thule would rather go live on Etheriys if the possibility exists for them.

The Ragnarok is essentially functioning as a teleporter between the two points now so it theoretically wouldn't be difficult for them to come visit barring some weird shenanigans involving dynamis or some such.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I think I'm mostly interested in the potential question of whether or not the denizens of Ultima Thule would rather go live on Etheriys if the possibility exists for them.

The Ragnarok is essentially functioning as a teleporter between the two points now so it theoretically wouldn't be difficult for them to come visit barring some weird shenanigans involving dynamis or some such.

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Yeah, that'd definitely be good!

And in terms of the Ultima Thule Dragons, it'd be great to see how they'd react to/interact with mini-Midgardsormr and the remaining Dravanian Horde Dragons.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Shadowbringers didn't get one for the same reason DSR got delayed; as much as they were able to get done in pandemic conditions, the delays that resulted still meant things had to get cut, and they (rightly) prioritized the stuff that's a lot more mainstream. Shadowbringers also had the excuse of being pretty far away from the guy that's usually the impetus for the allied quests, so it was also pretty easy for them to say 'yeah we won't do it this time'. No evidence says they'll do the same for Endwalker's. And I hope they don't, I can't imagine a better match for the Hippo Riders than a pretty far-flung restaurant!

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Ah that's a shame for Shadowbringers, i was looking forward to see the shard of that masked Miqo'te. He could even have had his mask on the other side of his face, would have been a funny interaction.
For Endwalker, I can totally see the Uber Eats elephants serve food from the edge of the universe and the moon. I can imagine the Miqo'te trying to smuggle the jellyfish mount too ! That would be a funny little plot.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Yeah, that'd definitely be good!

And in terms of the Ultima Thule Dragons, it'd be great to see how they'd react to/interact with mini-Midgardsormr and the remaining Dravanian Horde Dragons.

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If they decide to wake up Midgardsormr at a earlier point than when he does in G'raha original timeline, i would definitely be interested in his interactions with these dragons.
Something like the lvl 90 Omega sidequest could be nice to show some of his insights about it.

I doubt it would happen, but taking the Studium professors on a field trip to the Last Dregs would be amusing given that they're all hyped up to take the Ragnarok on an expedition to meet some alien races after the final quest there, but are now capable of doing so in a more leisurely manner.