Why the hate with endgame fights?

Idk I think because we get handed everything so we most player become lazy.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

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You are omitting the fact Cross-World Party Finder didn't yet exist, thus forcing people all onto one server if they wished to raid together. That alone likely contributed to the increased participation. Another factor is Midas still wasn't properly balanced as A6S outpaced A7S even following the initial nerf. Midcores weren't complaining about Midas, the more casual minded raiders were because they couldn't get the gear. Now I will admit, after the disaster of Gordias, they should have initially responded with Creator difficulty to ease everyone back into raiding then followed up with Midas level. Regardless, Creator had superior numbers yet they nerfed it again. And instead of properly scaling each tier as they claimed prior to Stormblood's launch, they want to leave Savage to potentially stagnate at its current level. That's the complaint most people have.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

What? That doesn't make any sense. So if the content is harder it doesn't count. If the content is easier is to try to make the game more casual. You are clearly contradicting yourself.

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That isn't a contradiction. It goes to show how poorly SE scales content. Deltascape is basically midcore whereas Ultimate is the hardest content this game has ever released. The gap between them is enormous. An equivalent would be suddenly putting Shinryu Extreme in Trial roulette. Asking for Savage to be closer to Midas difficulty doesn't mean everyone wants Ultimate.

Do people hate it? I think it's more like

A) lazy/entitled collectors who are upset they can't complete their mount collection and watch Netflix at the same time
B) People with a vendetta against raiders (as if "raider" is even a type of person???)
C) people who would maybe try it with close friends, but take criticism very personally/get depressed so they stay away from PF due to anxiety
D) People who don't have the time

I'm personally a C and D person, but that doesn't mean I want the devs to take Savage away from other players. I am envious of the people with their danger noodle mounts, but oh well!

Gotta love how the OP asks why a segment of the population doesn't like endgame content...and when those people oblige...I've seen a significant number of OP's replies aimed at insulting them or flat out saying this opinion is wrong (somehow OP thinks opinions are wrong...).

Just one of many reasons I've started to wish developers would just stop having official forums for their MMOs. Productive conversation rarely happens here. LOL

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

Gotta love how the OP asks why a segment of the population doesn't like endgame content...and when those people oblige...I've seen a significant number of OP's replies aimed at insulting them or flat out saying this opinion is wrong (somehow OP thinks opinions are wrong...).

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Could you please quote where the OP, specifically the OP, has been insulting people who disagree? Every instance of it you can find within this thread please, since you did say "a significant number".

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Just one of many reasons I've started to wish developers would just stop having official forums for their MMOs. Productive conversation rarely happens here. LOL

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So...why even bother coming to the OF of games if you know you're unlikely to find productive conversation?

I mean...just see any of the replies to folks that have commented that they're turned off by what they perceive as a toxic community? There's several (admittedly not all OP) on the first few pages.

Why am I here? Boredom, mostly, and not a lot of time to game. Will occasionally look through some of the photo threads...cause it's hard for those to turn into a venomous hell hole. And yeah, I'll occasionally click on a thread that catches my interest...expecting the worse.

But do tell me, since you seem angered by my opinion, what exactly has this thread accomplished? How is the community better off from the last 30 pages?

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Originally Posted by Jerichai

I mean...just see any of the replies to folks that have commented that they're turned off by what they perceive as a toxic community? There's several (admittedly not all OP) on the first few pages.

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Your point is remarkably less valid when you have to admit that no, they're not all OP.

OP had one post on page 1: the OP. On page 2 they responded to a lot of people in a single post, can't find anything I'd call negative there. Page 3, again nothing really negative; certainly none of her telling anyone their opinion is invalid. In fact, on page 15:

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Well...I did say this was an open discussion. And as far as I know, it still is. I have welcomed open opinions - yes, me and Riyah have been going back and forth for quite some time, but I don't view that as a bad thing. It's a debate. You've seen Presidential Debates, right? They engage in similar circular arguments throughout their three debates. We just happen to be passionate about our stances. Either we'll agree to disagree, or we'll find a middle ground.

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This in response to a poster asking why many people were responding to Riyah's posts still. So in my search I've found one example to the opposite of your claim--that OP is disrespecting opinions, and none to support your claim. I don't necessarily care what people other than the OP have or have not been saying, as your original claim was OP made the conversation and was stonewalling opposing opinions on it.

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Why am I here? Boredom, mostly, and not a lot of time to game. Will occasionally look through some of the photo threads...cause it's hard for those to turn into a venomous hell hole. And yeah, I'll occasionally click on a thread that catches my interest...expecting the worse.

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So boredom and a love for the taste of salt. That's basically why I'm on the forums too.

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But do tell me, since you seem angered by my opinion, what exactly has this thread accomplished? How is the community better off from the last 30 pages?

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I never said it was better off, or that the thread did add to the community. But what has it detracted from the community? The time of people who responded? That was their choice to spend it, either way.

If nothing else, then it's net-neutral, and there are no issues. Perhaps you shouldn't read your own emotions into my post, which merely called you on your attempt to drive in and drop a comment smearing the OP and trying to drive off.

Ahh, I see the issue, I mixed the OP up with another poster that was responding frequently since they had similar avatars. Apologies to the OP in that regards.

That said: you comment that this exchange is a net neutral in terms of impact on community. But let's consider this: Go through almost any of the pages and you'll see people making baseless accusations that those who haven't done endgame content and/or don't want to must be things like lazy, entitled, terrible at the game, etc. It's funny to me that people are also arguing...quite angrily at times...that anyone commenting that they perceive the community as toxic is wrong or that they have ulterior motives.

Think from the perspective of someone who may not have done endgame comment yet (and potentially a bit anxious about it). It is impossible to see how someone may feel indirectly targeted by such comments might walk away with a perception that, yeah, the endgame community to an extent is kind of toxic?


Instead of being angry at the people who are stating an opinion, endgame communities (in any MMO) would do a lot better to try and stop trying to find, or even manufacture, the worst in people.

Yes, let's not be angry at people who speak of end game fights like they've done it all yet have 0 savage experience. /s

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Yes, let's not be angry at people who speak of end game fights like they've done it all yet have 0 savage experience. /s

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Dude you know that's not who I am referring to. Unless you're just making another one of the numerous baseless assumptions I just referred to.