Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

If they are unlocked through story maybe it will be linked to the new relic quest line? Folks can but hope.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

WhiteArchmage already explained the Au-ra above. But the only thing Ill say about that is...the Au-ra are a brandnew race so far exclusive to XIV, while the Viera have been established in Ivalice since Tactics, and then we see them again in the Familiar land of Ivalice in XII. Their Lore is already written, and kept consistent. Its not new to XIV like the other races are.

Despite our differences, we both at least agree a good story would make it more interesting for them to be in the game.
And I wont get mad or fight anybody if they DO get put into the game. I just hope and would appreciate some good writing behind it besides "Just because" And this is only exclusive to the Viera, because again, they were made before this game, so Id just like their lore to be consistent and Id rather it be Expanded on, instead of lazily ignored Just to put them into the game.

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To be fair, Au Ra are pretty much the only completely new race for FF14, with maybe also Highlanders. Miqo'te are descedants of Mithra from FF11 (which was hinted with Mithra minion). Lalafells are basically Tarutaru (Shantotto says hi). Elezens are Elvaans and Huyrs are Humes. Roegadyns are, apparently, based on Galka, though their design is a little bit different (Roegadyns don't have tails, for instance) and their lore is quite different, but resemblance is there. Just as in FF11, Miqo'te and Roegadyns were one-gender race initially in 1.0, which was changed later in ARR. That said... the lore of other games doesn't really have that much of a weight in FF14, even when they decide to use similar setting.

As for the reason why male Viera would leave the Forest, it's already right there, and it's the same as for female Vieras. Imperia is a threat, and they barely can defend their lands by themselves. I suppose at this point we should see how Relic, Weapons and MSQ stories will go, though, because we don't know yet what Imperia will do next.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

As for the reason why male Viera would leave the Forest, it's already right there, and it's the same as for female Vieras. Imperia is a threat, and they barely can defend their lands by themselves. I suppose at this point we should see how Relic, Weapons and MSQ stories will go, though, because we don't know yet what Imperia will do next.

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The Females are Different from the Males though, the Males Value their tradition abit more then the females, they value the Protection of the Woods, and to maintain The Voice of the Woods. Plus the Males don't particularly get along with others, It is very rare that any would step out of the woods and interact with anybody else, much less even interact with the Females besides for 'specific reasons'
The Imperials have yet to make a Move that would Quite Directly effect the Viera enough that I think the Males would come out of Hiding and Sacrifice their Traditions. There was Black Rose, but I think thats been rendered Inert, so something else has to take over, unless the Black Rose makes a return.

Hmm lore is finicky as if we take everything at face value to justify why no male Viera and female Hrothgar we get very disturbing implications.

Male Viera
-No male Viera ever questioned their culture and decided against the word of the wood and leave, given the Viera lifespan and their traditions this is incredibly jarring and hints the word of the wood might be something more insidious(Like why must males have the most restrictions on their freedom etc), Dalmascans and Garleans have apparently never seen them which is just odd you think even 1 would like to try and be socialable or when entering the Golmore Jungle seeing even a silloette or something especially in the Garleans case with regards to the new lore on the IVth legion.
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Liberties were already taken in regards to female viera as they're slightly different in regards to their lore and overall look compared to their FFXII counterparts.

It's almost as if some people don't actually care that much about the lore and they're just using it as an excuse to make it more difficult for male viera to be added to the game. Note how often the concerns come from posters who primarily play female characters and who rarely if ever hold female viera or female hrothgar to the same standard.

Would I like for male viera to have a proper introduction story and presence within the game world? Sure. Though let's not pretend as if there aren't already race/gender combinations that barely get more than a string of dialogue justifying their presence.

For me, the most important thing is that they're added at some point. I think gender locked playable races (or jobs) are exceptionally sleazy as a concept.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Hmm lore is finicky as if we take everything at face value to justify why no male Viera and female Hrothgar we get very disturbing implications.

Male Viera
-No male Viera ever questioned their culture and decided against the word of the wood and leave, given the Viera lifespan and their traditions this is incredibly jarring and hints the word of the wood might be something more insidious(Like why must males have the most restrictions on their freedom etc), Dalmascans and Garleans have apparently never seen them which is just odd you think even 1 would like to try and be socialable or when entering the Golmore Jungle seeing even a silloette or something especially in the Garleans case with regards to the new lore on the IVth legion.
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Sigh stupid phone to continue

Male Viera
-The first Viis are the stupidest race in this game bar none. They can count the number of males left in the woods on their hands meaning < or = 10 yet what do they do keep the males on the front lines battling the sin eaters, brilliant, only your entire species future rests on them not dying or being turned rather than having the more plentiful and still very capable warriors that are the women out fighting that far away. There comes a point when traditions are stupid and you need to forgo them for survival, brink of colapse is one.



Female Hrothgar
-Helion subspecies females are either in a perpetual state of child birth from sexual maturity or they give birth to large litters of Hrothgars at a time, neither is pleasent but one far more favorable than the other, this is due to having a birth rate so skewed towards the males, this is only to the Helions specifically as unlike the Viera whose only real difference in culture is where they live Hrothgar have 2 very distinct societies with their 2 subspecies.
-this is a general Hrothgar one, but Gridania and Ul'Dah would've arrested a Hrothgar upon entering their city states, Ul'Dah would've let them go on a technicality (Mamool Jas fall under the same techniclaity) and Gridania probably let them go after communing with the elementals because yea Hrothgars are kinda beast like and would raised the city guards attention pretty quickly(Do also bare in mind ARR still had Bealsar's Wall up and Zenos in power in Ala Mhigo so a Hrothgar making their way to Eorzea would be pretty rare as well as any knowledge of their race).


All in all lore at face value to exclude races is iffy and you have to accept the above if plan to do that rather than the rl reason of they didn't make them. The other races didn't get a lore reason for sudden appearance I highly doubt male Viera and female Hrothgar would have one either.

I mean, it's not a stretch to think that a male Viera wanting to leave the woods would be considered a heretic by its own clan and be killed on the spot, look at how Ishgardians treated their own for mere suspicion of treason. It's already stated many don't even reach adulthood during their training, so who's to say it's not because they try to escape and the supervising adults just purge them for being weak.

I mentioned it elsewhere but there's a suspiciously huge gap between their lifespan and mating season - every 3-5 years for a race that lives as long as 400 years, maybe more, yet they're considered rare? either female Viera are borderline infertile or their mortality rate is VERY high.

There are, however, ways to go around it without altering lore, like saying the player Viera's mother left the woods before the baby's gender was confirmed, or even before they were born, or the mother pulled a Moses and sent away/exiled the baby before the adults could take him, it's all about the player's creativity /shrug

Regarding Hroths, I like to think they're like reverse harpies/werewolves lol. Like, male Hroths can mate with other races, but the child will come out a Hroth. It's a silly line of thought but it's the least....controversial one I can think of to explain how can the race exist naturally while still justifying why females are rare.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Hmm lore is finicky as if we take everything at face value to justify why no male Viera and female Hrothgar we get very disturbing implications.

Male Viera
-No male Viera ever questioned their culture and decided against the word of the wood and leave, given the Viera lifespan and their traditions this is incredibly jarring and hints the word of the wood might be something more insidious(Like why must males have the most restrictions on their freedom etc), Dalmascans and Garleans have apparently never seen them which is just odd you think even 1 would like to try and be socialable or when entering the Golmore Jungle seeing even a silloette or something especially in the Garleans case with regards to the new lore on the IVth legion.
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Female Hrothgar 'Queens' Are Different from Male Viera.
That being said, the MAIN reason we dont have Female Hrothgar, is they just haven't been made yet. Maybe they were gonna be made and they just didnt have the time, because the Team wanted to make a Race They wanted/felt would be needed for diversity, AND add a Race that was highly requested.
Male Viera.....I mean its not like we as players and FF fans have ever seen one to begin with. Not like they don't exist, but even in FF they have never been seen. Besides a very small handful of rare occasions And its not that farfetched to think: like in Cultures IRL, there are those that are more devout and wouldn't break tradition, Vs other Cultures that are more lose and open to the outside world with theirs. Sometimes this even plays into the Gender Norms of their Culture. Male are & do X. Females are and do Y.

Im not saying it can't happen or be written in. I just think the Male Viera should be given at least a little lore to go with them Joining the outside world, considering their current lore. No matter how many people in thei Thread Disagree or simply dont care.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's almost as if some people don't actually care that much about the lore and they're just using it as an excuse to make it more difficult for male viera to be added to the game. Note how often the concerns come from posters who primarily play female characters and who rarely if ever hold female viera or female hrothgar to the same standard.
For me, the most important thing is that they're added at some point. I think gender locked playable races (or jobs) are exceptionally sleazy as a concept.

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I guess what I said is just being ignored then...
Its up to SE/Yoshi-P and team If & how they want to implement them. My personal stance is Id just LIKE there to be a good lore reason for them to come in. Its not some elaborate scheme to make it harder to get Male Viera into the game, its not like its even up to me. Just feels weird that a Male Viera's 1st appearance would be in an MMO instead of a Mainline game, at least one tied to Ivalice. So I think there should be Lore to Expand upon the Viera, instead of adding them "Just Because". Again, this stance is specific to Viera, because they are already established.

Do you, like have some sort of Grudge against Female Characters or something? You like to bring attention to Female Character Players.
I have a Male ALT ive been playing more then my Main here, so I dont JUST play a Female Character.
And...what Standard am I suppose to Hold Female Viera and Female Hrothgar to?....And how does it relate to Male Viera?.... Im lost what your trying to say here

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Originally Posted by Allegor

I mean, it's not a stretch to think that a male Viera wanting to leave the woods would be considered a heretic by its own clan and be killed on the spot, look at how Ishgardians treated their own for mere suspicion of treason. It's already stated many don't even reach adulthood during their training, so who's to say it's not because they try to escape and the supervising adults just purge them for being weak.

I mentioned it elsewhere but there's a suspiciously huge gap between their lifespan and mating season - every 3-5 years for a race that lives as long as 400 years, maybe more, yet they're considered rare? either female Viera are borderline infertile or their mortality rate is VERY high.

There are, however, ways to go around it without altering lore, like saying the player Viera's mother left the woods before the baby's gender was confirmed, or even before they were born, or the mother pulled a Moses and sent away/exiled the baby before the adults could take him, it's all about the player's creativity /shrug

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The 1st paragraph would then raise the question why so harsh on the males, why is a female Viera who wants to leave is just banished never to return but a male doing the same exact thing must be hunted down and killed.

The long lifespan actually gives a bit of leeway to skewed birth distribution as say a Viera female got pregnant 10 times 1 out of those 10 would statistically be a male while the other 9 female this is not too big a problem when their lifespan is 300-400 years because at most (if follow rl human if not go with whatever numbers you want) 90-100 months (8-9 years) pregnant and giving birth which is miniscule in their lifespan (wouldn't be at the time and obviously spaced out between each birth but they could do that, Helion Hrothgar females atm cannot unless very large litters of them at a time).

Oh yea never underestimate player creativity there was always was around the lore from the beginning same with male cats in both ffxi and ffxiv just only ffxiv designed male cats to be playable, Galka however would hard stomp it in their lore whereas Roedygens were made far more loose.

If SE wanted to make sure they could never be asked for male bunnies and female Hrothgar they could've easily added text like the Viera are born from the wood itself and take on the appearance of the word made manifest. Etc they didn't do this and have only themselves to blame for it.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Do you, like have some sort of Grudge against Female Characters or something? You like to bring attention to Female Character Players.

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It's not a grudge. I simply identified a trend over the years that I have played this game. Check any thread that is relevant to suggestions in relation to male characters and there's a notable number of players posting on female characters who insist that it isn't needed. In quite a few cases they show up in threads related to female character customisation demanding that something is added right away. As was the case for many male viera naysayers who lost their minds over the 2B outfit adjustments.

I doubt that I'm the only poster in this thread who has noticed such things.

Plus, we also don't know if Males mate with only one Female or several when he visits the village, which would lead to a higher chance for boys to be born. The Lore reasoning, as always, is easily handwaved by the fact that the WoL is the definition of special circumstances: A rare Duskwight that is accepted in Gridania without question, a rare Au Ra walking into Ishgard, a Hrothgar entering Gridania or Ul'Dah in 2.0 content, a NUHN walking around without a harem, or a Moonkeeper male... just... out in the open.

There is NO canon Lore reason for the WoL arriving in Eorzea, so a Male Viera or Female Hrothgar arriving as a PC is the LEAST Lore-breaking thing there would be. Again, we can count Male Keepers of the Moon with one hand, but they're still playable

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's not a grudge. I simply identified a trend over the years that I have played this game. Check any thread that is relevant to suggestions in relation to male characters and there's a notable number of players posting on female characters who insist that it isn't needed. In quite a few cases they show up in threads related to female character customisation demanding that something is added right away. As was the case for many male viera naysayers who lost their minds over the 2B outfit adjustments.

I doubt that I'm the only poster in this thread who has noticed such things.

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Right...but why is it relevant to this thread? What is the argument against Lore?
And I dont think its the first time you said it either.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's not a grudge. I simply identified a trend over the years that I have played this game. Check any thread that is relevant to suggestions in relation to male characters and there's a notable number of players posting on female characters who insist that it isn't needed. In quite a few cases they show up in threads related to female character customisation demanding that something is added right away. As was the case for many male viera naysayers who lost their minds over the 2B outfit adjustments.

I doubt that I'm the only poster in this thread who has noticed such things.

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If this was HW/early SB Theo I would be agreeing with you 100% as males were given less options in sheer quantity of items they could use while female characters got unique and a unisex at the same time.

Nowadays though SE seem to have learned to try and keep a balance on how much they offer to each gender they occasionally dip one way then readjust back soon after. Right now yea more female npc mog station outfits have been released one after another but I expect them to release multiple male ones soon (as in before 6.0 soon). When the biggest imbalance is male npcs outfits being unique, we are in a pretty damn good game with regards to gendered outfits(play BDO or Tera to really see how bad it can get and thank you devs for moving away from that slope).

Face features is something I think that would be great to add to CC but what do you offer females as an equivalent that couldn't be there for males that most people who play male characters would be ok in not having, or do you give female characters face fuzz, hey i'll be all for it but that would be for people of a very very small niche compared. (Also I was baffled by Yoshi P's response to the demand for WoL's stubble)

He's referring to behaviours he's observed on the forum, not by SE.

Females don't need that feature. Not sure why they have to compensate female characters at all for expanding a feature specific to males. The baseline is that males can possess facial hair as it is... adding one more to the list implies nothing for the female characters.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

If this was HW/early SB Theo I would be agreeing with you 100% as males were given less options in sheer quantity of items they could use while female characters got unique and a unisex at the same time.

Nowadays though SE seem to have learned to try and keep a balance on how much they offer to each gender they occasionally dip one way then readjust back soon after. Right now yea more female npc mog station outfits have been released one after another but I expect them to release multiple male ones soon (as in before 6.0 soon). When the biggest imbalance is male npcs outfits being unique, we are in a pretty damn good game with regards to gendered outfits(play BDO or Tera to really see how bad it can get and thank you devs for moving away from that slope).

Face features is something I think that would be great to add to CC but what do you offer females as an equivalent that couldn't be there for males that most people who play male characters would be ok in not having, or do you give female characters face fuzz, hey i'll be all for it but that would be for people of a very very small niche compared. (Also I was baffled by Yoshi P's response to the demand for WoL's stubble)

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Also the 2B butt thing was something that was added then removed before the complaints whereas male Vieras have yet to be added so comparing the two is off as "Why was this changed could you change it back?" And "I do not want to see male Viera added" are very different. Honestly wish males got as big a booty as females did while wearing it but say la ve.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

He's referring to behaviours he's observed on the forum, not by SE.

Females don't need that feature. Not sure why they have to compensate female characters at all for expanding a feature specific to males. The baseline is that males can possess facial hair as it is... adding one more to the list implies nothing for the female characters.

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Simple reason why do X gender gets something but Y gender gets nothing.

And when it is something like the CC creator which many people of both genders want improvements to best to give something to all than 1 at a time. Longer wait but generally more people happy once they do it.

I'm not convinced that there's more balance these days - especially when a lot of new hairstyles and outfits for male characters are designed to be feminine or androgynous. The number of people playing male characters who actually want to wear a dress is very much a minority. Albeit a very vocal one. Requests for additional tattoo, scar and facial hair options have been put forward for years - predating even the requests for viera to be added in the first place.

There's also a pretty jarring contrast in the amount of effort put into the NPC outfits sold on the Mog Station/used by canon characters. Hien plays a much greater role in the story than Lyse but the textures of his outfit are very stretched and unpolished. Much more effort was put into ensuring that the likes of Alma, Yotsuyu, Lyse and Y'shtola had unique dresses.

One also only has to look at how quickly the 2B outfit was fixed when the enhancements to female character's rear ends were compromised. It received an official statement and was very quickly reverted - which is much more than can be said of the problems that exist with the male character models/specific gear that looks botched.

Then when we tie things back to male viera, those of us who enjoy playing male characters were expected to settle for hrothgar because we 'needed something different' but those who prefer to play female characters received yet another conventionally attractive race. That isn't to say that I'm against the inclusion of Hrothgar (especially now that Gangos/Bozja has actually established them as part of the game world) but there's something of a double standard to it all.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Simple reason why do X gender gets something but Y gender gets nothing.

And when it is something like the CC creator which many people of both genders want improvements to best to give something to all than 1 at a time. Longer wait but generally more people happy once they do it.

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Females already get a bust slider as it is. However, I doubt anyone's going to complain that they expand the male facial hair options a bit. Overall CC improvements are in high demand, but I expect most people would be more satisfied with better textures and a greater variety of options, rather than SE just tacking on a feature arbitrarily for the sake of some imaginary tally, like facial hair for females, which the vast majority of people would say adds nothing to/detracts from their looks.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Then when we tie things back to male viera, those of us who enjoy playing male characters were expected to settle for hrothgar because we 'needed something different' but those who prefer to play female characters received yet another conventionally attractive race. That isn't to say that I'm against the inclusion of Hrothgar (especially now that Gangos/Bozja has actually established them as part of the game world) but there's something of a double standard to it all.

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No, no and no. You weren't expected to choose Hrothgar and everything would be forgotten or "You needed something different". They never said that. You, yourself, implied that. They are working toward adding the missing genders or they would just straight up say "No, were not adding them", which they have not said yet which means obviously they are.

As for your "Balance".....blame your community. People swarmed the idea of wanting male characters able to wear dresses and this and that but when it comes to actual manly characteristics, they turn the other way. You may think it was a minority but apparently alot of people supported it hence why it's now in the game. Also female characters will always be more popular in MMO's.

The continued insistence on MORE LORE NEEDED is silly when we get an xpac with new lore built on top of what we currently have every 2 years. How to explain m viera? Garlemald. War. Ascian shenanigans. Take your pick. Hrothgar, F viera, Au Ra - none of these were common sights outside their ~conveniently far away homeland~ in large numbers until..they were suddenly allowed to. And now no one bats an eye in-game or as players.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

The continued insistence on MORE LORE NEEDED is silly when we get an xpac with new lore built on top of what we currently have every 2 years. How to explain m viera? Garlemald. War. Ascian shenanigans. Take your pick. Hrothgar, F viera, Au Ra - none of these were common sights outside their ~conveniently far away homeland~ in large numbers until..they were suddenly allowed to. And now no one bats an eye in-game or as players.

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Male Viera or Viera in General already existed before the Au-ra and the Hrothgar.
Nobody is saying (currently) that more lore is NEEDED. The conversation is: It would be Nice/I would personally LIKE if they expanded the lore on Viera to bring the Male Viera in.

The other races were written in to already exist in some way. It is not written for male viera to suddenly leave the forest to go adventuring.
It can, and it might happen. My whole argument is it would just be nice and might win more people over to support it IF they put in that kind of effort to write a Pre-existing race with its own lore into this MMO.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

No, no and no. You weren't expected to choose Hrothgar and everything would be forgotten or "You needed something different". They never said that. You, yourself, implied that. They are working toward adding the missing genders or they would just straight up say "No, were not adding them", which they have not said yet which means obviously they are.

As for your "Balance".....blame your community. People swarmed the idea of wanting male characters able to wear dresses and this and that but when it comes to actual manly characteristics, they turn the other way. You may think it was a minority but apparently alot of people supported it hence why it's now in the game. Also female characters will always be more popular in MMO's.

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It depends; WoW for instance it has had a prevalence of male over female characters. Still, it's something like 45/55 overall for XIV, so it's not that huge an imbalance. Similar for GW2.

Regarding a lot of people swarming the idea of males wearing dresses... yes, there was a lot of vocal forum and social media pushes for it. But considering that, as we're constantly reminded, neither of these venues is representative of the playerbase as a whole, it's not inconsistent with what he's saying.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Male Viera or Viera in General already existed before the Au-ra and the Hrothgar.
Nobody is saying (currently) that more lore is NEEDED. The conversation is: It would be Nice/I would personally LIKE if they expanded the lore on Viera to bring the Male Viera in.

The other races were written in to already exist in some way. It is not written for male viera to suddenly leave the forest to go adventuring.
It can, and it might happen. My whole argument is it would just be nice and might win more people over to support it IF they put in that kind of effort to write a Pre-existing race with its own lore into this MMO.

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Who is to say that they couldn't add on to existing lore? Rabnastere was recently nuked. Displaced Dalmascans have recently wandered into the surrounding jungle in large numbers. Othard has recently attempted to unite an alliance of all willing eastern peoples. Garlemald has recently been thrown into a civil war with multiple factions across different lands zerging for the crown. Occupied territories have recently begun attempts to chase out now-stranded Garlean forces. Ascians have recently been pushed into a corner and are now looking to pull the stops on forcibly recreating the world.

These are all fairly fresh happenings in game canon that can effect the ballpark of where Viera (and even Hrothgar to an extent) live. As it is now, the door is open for the missing genders on a "Well, we haven't seen them but-" note. We know that Garlean interference has been the main cause of females leaving their homes. Could Garleamald's scorched earth policies force the males out? Could increased outside pressure force them to begrudgingly work alongside other races? Could a small group of disenchanted/demoralized males strike it out after the villages they were to protect were destroyed? All races have a little blurb on the character creation screen that kind of explain their role in the world. I don't see why we should doubt the males getting lore if they became playable.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Who is to say that they couldn't add on to existing lore? Rabnastere was recently nuked. Displaced Dalmascans have recently wandered into the surrounding jungle in large numbers. Othard has recently attempted to unite an alliance of all willing eastern peoples. Garlemald has recently been thrown into a civil war with multiple factions across different lands zerging for the crown. Occupied territories have recently begun attempts to chase out now-stranded Garlean forces. Ascians have recently been pushed into a corner and are now looking to pull the stops on forcibly recreating the world.

These are all fairly fresh happenings in game canon that can effect the ballpark of where Viera (and even Hrothgar to an extent) live. As it is now, the door is open for the missing genders on a "Well, we haven't seen them but-" note. We know that Garlean interference has been the main cause of females leaving their homes. Could Garleamald's scorched earth policies force the males out? Could increased outside pressure force them to begrudgingly work alongside other races? Could a small group of disenchanted/demoralized males strike it out after the villages they were to protect were destroyed? All races have a little blurb on the character creation screen that kind of explain their role in the world. I don't see why we should doubt the males getting lore if they became playable.

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Its funny, your agreeing with me and you dont even know it.
This is exactly what Im talking about: Expanding the Lore. This crap right here is what Im talking about when I say They can be Written In. Which would mean SE/Yoshi and team have been taking steps that would include Male Viera in a natural World Building Lore Expanding way. Instead of "Hurr-durr put them in Just Because"

I like your Post
+1

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Its funny, your agreeing with me and you dont even know it.

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My point is that lore is always being added onto as the story progresses. Saying "I would support them if lore was added" is redundant because this is a story based game where things happen because of the story. If we get the missing genders they will have, at minimum, a blurb on the creation/expansion page and the entirety of the game's remaining lifespan to elaborate on their lore. There is absolutely no reason to believe that the devs would plop them into the world willy nilly and never ever touch on it.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

My point is that lore is always being added onto as the story progresses. Saying "I would support them if lore was added" is redundant because this is a story based game where things happen because of the story. If we get the missing genders they will have, at minimum, a blurb on the creation/expansion page and the entirety of the game's remaining lifespan to elaborate on their lore. There is absolutely no reason to believe that the devs would plop them into the world willy nilly and never ever touch on it.

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And yet, there are people here who think SE should just plop them in Willy Nilly because they dont think it matters. Just put them in the game.
Either way, you said something I was advocating for, Write them In. Not just Put them In

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Females already get a bust slider as it is. However, I doubt anyone's going to complain that they expand the male facial hair options a bit. Overall CC improvements are in high demand, but I expect most people would be more satisfied with better textures and a greater variety of options, rather than SE just tacking on a feature arbitrarily for the sake of some imaginary tally, like facial hair for females, which the vast majority of people would say adds nothing to/detracts from their looks.

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Sorry i'mma going have to do a really?

What happens when male characters get a nicer glam over females? They complain ours looks good can work for them on their gender and ask for it. Do they accept that males would have access to theirs then some do, some, which is what i'm highlighting you can bet my ass Theo's ass and your own ass that if males saw improvement to CC with added facial features there would be plenty of females demanding something for them in the CC.



Hein's outfit is horribly bad from a texture standpoint and needs to be redone no arguments about that, 2B's outfit however had far greater fan influence than Hein outfit wishes it could have had because another male npc outfit is totally going to be valued at the same level as the first piece of gear that gets rid of cardboard butts something people have wanted since 2.0, the reason that got such a response was because it had fan outrage that was high enough last thing before that from the forums was the missing genders.

If you think they should respond to every single problem someone has then XD XD XD they will weigh it up and decide if worthwhile clearly Hein's outfit is low priority probably due to statistics such as sales of the outfit + how many are wearing it + how many people have requested to fix it etc etc. And clearly a lot of forum threads do not get passed on regardless how popular they get due to Yoshi P's response about stubble (seriously baffles me on that one ik how long that has been requested for and usually well wanted by those that play male characters).

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Male Viera or Viera in General already existed before the Au-ra and the Hrothgar.
Nobody is saying (currently) that more lore is NEEDED. The conversation is: It would be Nice/I would personally LIKE if they expanded the lore on Viera to bring the Male Viera in.

The other races were written in to already exist in some way. It is not written for male viera to suddenly leave the forest to go adventuring.
It can, and it might happen. My whole argument is it would just be nice and might win more people over to support it IF they put in that kind of effort to write a Pre-existing race with its own lore into this MMO.

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I would argue they don't need to say anything at all. They can allow players to be male viera and leave it at that without adding any male NPCs. They can leave the general lore established in tact within NPCs while allowing players to play the sex of the race. Look at it like this. There's no lore explaining why there are so many cat boy PCs. They simply don't put as many of them into the NPC areas.

I've mentioned this before, but there are only 3-4 male miquotes between both of their villages in the fringes and southern thanalan while there are over 40 females between them. They do the same thing with duskwight elezen. Lore says they live underground, only rarely coming up the the surface, so we almost never see them as NPCs while players are free to be that variant of the race.

I can only see them saying anything at all if we interact with viera settlements on the Source, which we have not yet done, and even then probably only in side quests. Though if I had to guess, it could be connected to the goings on at the Oborrne Monastery + Imperial Invasion that both encouraged them to look beyond their borders and forced them to move on from where they were.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Sorry i'mma going have to do a really?

What happens when male characters get a nicer glam over females? They complain ours looks good can work for them on their gender and ask for it. Do they accept that males would have access to theirs then some do, some, which is what i'm highlighting you can bet my ass Theo's ass and your own ass that if males saw improvement to CC with added facial features there would be plenty of females demanding something for them in the CC.

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I don't see them being up in arms over them adding a single beard to the existing selection, really, nor do I believe anyone playing a female would see beards being added to females as at all necessary or as an offset.

If they were to do something like that, it's likelier that they would add some feature actually in demand by people playing female characters, like the 2B butt modifications.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

I would argue they don't need to say anything at all. They can allow players to be male viera and leave it at that without adding any male NPCs. They can leave the general lore established in tact within NPCs while allowing players to play the sex of the race. Look at it like this. There's no lore explaining why there are so many cat boy PCs. They simply don't put as many of them into the NPC areas.

I've mentioned this before, but there are only 3-4 male miquotes between both of their villages in the fringes and southern thanalan while there are over 40 females between them. They do the same thing with duskwight elezen. Lore says they live underground, only rarely coming up the the surface, so we almost never see them as NPCs while players are free to be that variant of the race.

I can only see them saying anything at all if we interact with viera settlements on the Source, which we have not yet done, and even then probably only in side quests. Though if I had to guess, it could be connected to the goings on at the Oborrne Monastery + Imperial Invasion that both encouraged them to look beyond their borders and forced them to move on from where they were.

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People love to bring in an XIV race when talking about an Ivalice Race. -sigh-
I wont disagree with the idea that the Player could be the ONE Male Viera under some random unexplained circumstance that went out adventuring and happens to be The Warrior of Light; Hydalyns chosen Champion. But this is an MMO so no doubt there will be a number of other MaleViera: which under the Players eye is just another Random Adventurer, running around. So to circumvent this, I think they should have a number, even a small number of Male Viera NPCs.
At least then we can at least World Build that the Viera Males in general have come out of Hidding and are joining their 'Sisters' in the outside World.
That to me would just make more sense and be better then Just slapping in the Viera Males.

I don't know about others but I would be very disappointed should they be added into the game without some lore addressing why they suddenly go into public.

Male Viera should NEVER be added. Disgusting.

To be honest, while I wouldn't care TOO MUCH if they were added without fanfare, I also don't think the dev team would resist the urge to parade one or two around as NPCs.

They can still be rare, maybe we'll only see ONE in the entirety of 6.0 (as usual, under the assumption that they are added in the first place), maybe even giving the usual "Oh, I heard all about this great warrior that single-handedly took on the Empire and I just HAD to meet you" that is so common among NPCs we meet.

But yeah, my point, I'm sure that, after working so hard on the models, we'd likely meet a few NPCs, even if it has to be super rare like the common beast tribe quest (where we normally see one of the 4 Mooncats in the game), or the end of a raid series or what-have-you.

Plus, given how much this dev tem LOVES to tease and troll the playerbase, we'll get a lot more of those "Oh, this is a work of one of the men of our tribe! Pity you couldn't meet!" like that one quest in Rak Tika

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

They can still be rare, maybe we'll only see ONE in the entirety of 6.0 (as usual, under the assumption that they are added in the first place), maybe even giving the usual "Oh, I heard all about this great warrior that single-handedly took on the Empire and I just HAD to meet you" that is so common among NPCs we meet.

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It would be so cool if we were challenged to a duel by a male viera in this scenario.

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Originally Posted by Senn

It would be so cool if we were challenged to a duel by a male viera in this scenario.

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"Oh, you're the Famous Warrior of Light that defeated Countless Eikons? Fight Me!. Please, I know its a strange request but, I wanna see for myself how strong the Great Eikon Slayer is!" :D

There was never concern in my mind: "But do I pray SE does not forget to add lore to go with a thing D:".
I thought appropriate lore development was always most likely if not 100% likely part of the package. If we get it.
Fingers crossed ad nauseam :)

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm not convinced that there's more balance these days - especially when a lot of new hairstyles and outfits for male characters are designed to be feminine or androgynous. The number of people playing male characters who actually want to wear a dress is very much a minority. Albeit a very vocal one. Requests for additional tattoo, scar and facial hair options have been put forward for years - predating even the requests for viera to be added in the first place.

There's also a pretty jarring contrast in the amount of effort put into the NPC outfits sold on the Mog Station/used by canon characters. Hien plays a much greater role in the story than Lyse but the textures of his outfit are very stretched and unpolished. Much more effort was put into ensuring that the likes of Alma, Yotsuyu, Lyse and Y'shtola had unique dresses.

One also only has to look at how quickly the 2B outfit was fixed when the enhancements to female character's rear ends were compromised. It received an official statement and was very quickly reverted - which is much more than can be said of the problems that exist with the male character models/specific gear that looks botched.

Then when we tie things back to male viera, those of us who enjoy playing male characters were expected to settle for hrothgar because we 'needed something different' but those who prefer to play female characters received yet another conventionally attractive race. That isn't to say that I'm against the inclusion of Hrothgar (especially now that Gangos/Bozja has actually established them as part of the game world) but there's something of a double standard to it all.

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I think that is just a Japanese thing. Male characters tend to come out more boyish, feminine, or androgynous in general, while also featuring an overly stereotyped character here and there - like very bulky, etc..

I don't know what you mean by jarring contrast. There is like only one NPC outfit that you can attribute that to in the mogstation, and that is only the Hien outfit. I am pretty sure the textures to his outfit look just as low quality garbage in-game too. It seems to me they just ripped the outfit and resized it for player characters. Not necessarily any actual bias. I'd say you are grasping at straws on this one.

Agreed. 2B butt thing was stupid, that apparent fix didn't need to be rushed out as quick as it did either, in my opinion.

I don't think people who wanted to play a male character were "expected" to play hrothgar, rather it was for people who wanted to play a beast race. Viera was a fan favorite - specifically female viera. Whether they made those hideous male viera concepts or not. They compromised, Expected more people to play a male beast race than female, and frequently requested viera (who have always been depicted female) supposedly due to this being the last chance to add any new races to the game. Both players who wanted a female beast race, and players who wanted a male viera are out of luck.

Meanwhile I'm here with food:
A nice art of both female Hrothgar and male Viera by @pleasebemine00:
link to their Twitter

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

People love to bring in an XIV race when talking about an Ivalice Race. -sigh-
I wont disagree with the idea that the Player could be the ONE Male Viera under some random unexplained circumstance that went out adventuring and happens to be The Warrior of Light; Hydalyns chosen Champion. But this is an MMO so no doubt there will be a number of other MaleViera: which under the Players eye is just another Random Adventurer, running around. So to circumvent this, I think they should have a number, even a small number of Male Viera NPCs.
At least then we can at least World Build that the Viera Males in general have come out of Hidding and are joining their 'Sisters' in the outside World.
That to me would just make more sense and be better then Just slapping in the Viera Males.

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I bring it up because the lore of the two races are extremely similar. Male miquotes are rare, and they don't often leave their settlements. One cat boy is mate to dozens of females. So to that end, if we're looking at "we need an explanation" then it's fair to say there should be an explanation as to the sudden explosion of male cats in the game, and why they're not doing their duty to oversee their tribes.

Also while the lore is similar, they've made it clear that the viera of FFXIV are not the same as those on Ivalice. Even physically, there are many differences. Skin colors, hair color, the shape of their hands and feet.... (I realize some of these things exist because players want customization options, and others because it made creating the race easier from a development standpoint, but it goes to say that these two races are different)

That said, I don't think the developers need to explain the choices of players in the lore. "Why do male roes often wear wedding dresses and flowery hats?" for example...

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Originally Posted by wereotter

That said, I don't think the developers need to explain the choices of players in the lore. "Why do male roes often wear wedding dresses and flowery hats?" for example...

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A players choice of Glamour plays no role in story telling.
Why Male Viera: which have never been seen by most, suddenly are leaving the forest and going against their Traditionasl Laws as Viera and losing the "Voice of the Woods" thus becoming outcasts by their kind and considered "No Longer Viera" Would play a role in story telling.

And, if it wasn't missed for the Umpteenth time...Ive said that its not a Requirement. Not like I have a say in the matter anyway, its up to SE/ Yoshi and team to decide IF and HOW they wanna implement Male Viera. Id just like there to be some Lore and Story behind it so that we can Expand on Viera lore. Making it more enticing for them to become part of the open world, instead of just Plopping them in Willy Nilly "Just Because"

I think it would win some people over that think Male Viera is stupid or think shouldn't exist.
Im part of Team No Viera, but Id personally LIKE it, if there is some effort put behind their involvement if an MMO is gonna be the First time we ever see a Canon Male Viera. If they get lazy with it and just slap them in Willy Nilly, well nothing I can do about it, but it would just make me feel very disappointed. And Id find it, and the team Lazy.