Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

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Originally Posted by ZXN

They probably do have a general "rough draft" of what they want. When Endwalker released if I recall they said they were already working on the general idea of 7.0 and even 8.0, so they most likely have another rough draft of what they want the story to be heading for 8.0 with the post-past MSQ.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if that rough draft is now being given a real hard look at given how some people hated the story they gave with 7.0. I am assuming at this point that 7.1 is pretty much completely done and getting the polish treatment, and 7.2 is probably also well on it's own way to being finished and they are no doubt beginning to do stuff for 7.3, so I don't think we'll see any significant changes to the story until at least patch 7.3 since if I recall correctly the voice lines are done about 6-9+ months or so ahead of time.

All of it comes down to if they actually were serious about listening to all the players' feedback and criticisms and changing things around based on it.

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I've seen some crackpot-y ideas about her having a pivotal role in the story going forward because her real name is a very clumsy translation of "seventh dawn" into Mayan, but I haven't been able to verify that. If that was the case, they'd probably need to significantly alter or scrap huge parts of whatever framework they have.

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Originally Posted by Astronis

I don't see a lot of people hating the parts of the Dawntrail story that would legitimately lead to years worth of story content. Some of the plot hooks Dawntrail left out for a potentially very long-ranging story seem to have been received well enough--that is, the inter-shard travel and the question of Azem's involvement (the name "Dawntrail" itself and all the solar imagery in the WoL's skills and peppered around the place are hinting at an entirely different 'sun' we're walking towards than the Dawnservant!). There is scaffolding being laid down for some seriously interesting adventures that don't have anything built on them yet, and I haven't seen a lot of hate pointed that way.

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The thing is even if they had planned for multiple episodic contents, they are still responsible for making each individual episode interesting. We didn't have to wait 10 years to get EndWalker, SB was a bit of a drag but HW and ShB were phenomenon in its own right. This is especially true if you look at HW which is very self-contained. The core of HW didn't need much leading into it, and once it's done there isn't much else scaffold from it.

Far more than what it is or what it tries to be, the problem with DT is simply the quality just isn't there.

- It doesn't matter if it's supposed to be a relaxing story.
- It doesn't matter if it's supposed to be a an epic story.
- It doesn't matter if it's supposed to be a foundation for the future.
- It doesn't matter if it's supposed to be a self-contained story.

The writing of DT fails at basic 101 level. I dare say if this same team were given the task of writing EndWalker, I seriously doubt it would turn out anywhere as good.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

The thing is even if they had planned for multiple episodic contents, they are still responsible for making each individual episode interesting.

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Of course. I only commented to say I think there's still room for them to have a 10-year rough draft without current discontent affecting it severely. There's a whole lot wrong with Dawntrail as a self-contained piece.

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Originally Posted by gumas

well live letter is coming at the end of this month

let see if the team has anything to say, i doubt anything will happen but i still want to believe

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Yoshi and the rest won't say anything, and if they do it'll probably be just addressing the interviews and reinforcing / going into more detail on what he said for them. It'll be a miracle and a half if he actually going "We heard the feedback and we are working on the changes to the patch story", and even more of a miracle if he attempts to talk about any of the core issues issues, be it the story overall or Sena and whatnot, and not just make it as "Corporate PR Talk" as possible.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

...Speaking of, has Hiroi or Kate responded to the criticism at all? We hear a lot about Sena and her online bahavior, but what about Horoi and Kate? They are way more to blame than anyone for DT.

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As for Kate and Hiroi, to the best of my knowledge neither have said anything. Obviously on Twitter, there are some people who are complaining and dragging Kate and the rest of the localization team as well as Hiroi for what we got with Dawntrail, but as for Kate/Hiroi themselves actually saying something: they've both been completely silent, which is probably for the best at the moment, and I am pretty sure both are keeping a low profile as well. Maybe they both HAVE said stuff since Dawntrail's launch, but at the very least I myself haven't seen anything or heard much discussion about it if they have spoken up about it.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

I've seen some crackpot-y ideas about her having a pivotal role in the story going forward because her real name is a very clumsy translation of "seventh dawn" into Mayan, but I haven't been able to verify that. If that was the case, they'd probably need to significantly alter or scrap huge parts of whatever framework they have.

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Lamat correlates with Stars and Venus in Mayan culture, and Venus specifically is usually associated with new beginnings along with the cycle of life, death, and rebirth. Meanwhile, Wuk in Mayan does mean "Seven", and in Mayan culture, Wuk is normally tied to the jaguar god, and jaguars in Mayan are a symbol of ferocity, strength, and valor and normally represent control, confidence, and leadership. Hell if you really want to "dig into it" and kind of out there, Lamat is also associated with the Rabbit Zodiac wise, and with astrology, some of those positive traits associated with Lamat-Rabbit are...

- Playful and Carefree
- Physically energetic and mentally powerful
- Crave the center of attention as well as crave competition
- Have a gift of communication helps them to be good in positions of authority and to communicate what those in need may want
- Hard Working

And some of the negative traits...

- Can become arrogant
- Get too competitive
- Have nervous energy and become self-centered because they can be insecure about themselves

While Crackpot-y, there might be SOME truths behind Wuk Lamat's naming given the role she plays in Dawntrail's story as well as what her characterization means as a whole personality wise, if you want to REALLY want to reach anyway and just throw stuff at the wall and see what truly sticks like anyway, like with the astrology stuff.

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Originally Posted by ZXN

But if she decides to take it very seriously and just not voice act at all period: what then? If Sena recorded Wuk until patch 7.2 or 7.3 for example, do they just write the character out after the patch is done? Do they change the voice actress midway? If Sena hasn't done ANY voice acting for post-patch, is Wuk just going to be shelved immediately (...) ?

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This game has carried on even when the English VA for an active character was murdered (Sian Blake, the English VA for Yugiri, was found dead in 2015, just when production for Stormblood, the expansion about the character's homeland, was getting into swing). I am not too worried that it wouldn't be able to do so over someone reneging on contracted services.

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Originally Posted by ZXN

Lamat-Rabbit

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I can not explain why that word makes me grin. But anyway, the Mayans had astronomical observations as such a major element of their culture, any theory that requires kind ignoring that the Mayans had their own system of star reading and fortune telling and instead seeks a cross reference a Mayan jaguar to the Chinese Zodiac sign of the Rabbit and then interpret based on traits defined in China based on no cultural exchange with the Mayans at all, feels perhaps a little too farfetched and crackpot-y?

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Originally Posted by Eyrilona

This game has carried on even when the English VA for an active character was murdered (Sian Blake, the English VA for Yugiri, was found dead in 2015

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Oh God... How in the world am I just now learning this?

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Originally Posted by Eyrilona

I can not explain why that word makes me grin. But anyway, the Mayans had astronomical observations as such a major element of their culture, any theory that requires kind ignoring that the Mayans had their own system of star reading and fortune telling and instead seeks a cross reference a Mayan jaguar to the Chinese Zodiac sign of the Rabbit and then interpret based on traits defined in China based on no cultural exchange with the Mayans at all, feels perhaps a little too farfetched and crackpot-y?

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Trust me it is INSANELY cracktpo-y to the point of sounding like a conspiracy theory with how it barely holds any water. There isn't a whole lot of info totally available, or at least coherent info. Not like we can actually ask the Mayans after all. But based on the mythology and culture and research of the Mayans: Lamat is known as the rabbit and is associated with most of the things listed in the previous post I made. But like I said, it could just be a fun thing they did to make the character stand out by having her name actually mean something to those who dig a bit into it. It should also be remembered that, if I recall correctly, they used external firms when doing the research for Dawntrail.

-From a Gamespot interview before Dawntrail's launch-

He further explained how it was a multi-team effort with their localization teams abroad and other branches of Square Enix to make sure that the ideas the Japan team had wouldn't misrepresent the cultures it pulled from.

Yoshida continued, saying, "We went to an external company, making sure that we're getting advice from them and input on what is appropriate and what could potentially be a risk. We made sure we were discussing and hashing things out to have an appropriate depiction of what we wanted to show in certain areas. So while it is all fantasy and fiction, we wanted to also make it seem very real at the same time, a very grounded world."

He went on to explain how outside consultants advised on preliminary material which led to discussions of how certain things can be misinterpreted or potentially offensive. Yoshida said the team pushed to understand why it'd be the case in those particular instances, and instead of abandoning the initial idea entirely, they worked to develop a deeper understanding and deliver those ideas with better intent. "We do want to emphasize that we did our due diligence, not just internally, but then we also made sure to get proper feedback and advice," Yoshida concluded.

So they, at the very least, did do SOME research on Dawntrail's stuff when it comes to Mesoamerica, Latin America, and at least Aztec/Mayan cultures and ways, with what seems to be quite a bit of assistance from outside firms the entire time. So they probably just plucked certain things they found interesting and inserted them into the world in specific ways, like how they named Wuk Lamat for example.

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Originally Posted by ZXN

He further explained how it was a multi-team effort with their localization teams abroad and other branches of Square Enix to make sure that the ideas the Japan team had wouldn't misrepresent the cultures it pulled from.

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Come to think of it, FFXIV has language/culture localization teams for Japanese, German, French, and English. Spanish and Portuguese are conspicuously not on that list, so they'd have started from a bit of a disadvantage when it comes to Latin America?