Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Given that he deliberately said it affects subsequent patches meaning if they were to do the missing genders, the expansion they release in would feel like what Shadowbringers has been like.

The big question would be could the player base handle it again?

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Sure but the expansion after that one will be spectacular! and everyone would be happy they finally got bunny boys and hroth girls. At least until the next big thing happens and we all take to the forums again. Though I seriously doubt it would be to this level again.

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Originally Posted by Kelryth

Sure but the expansion after that one will be spectacular! and everyone would be happy they finally got bunny boys and hroth girls. At least until the next big thing happens and we all take to the forums again. Though I seriously doubt it would be to this level again.

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I mean..."What If" we definitively get Female Hrothgar and Male Viera, but the time it took to make them literally gave us less content to play in the next expansion?
Would it be worth it, would it be a fair trade? Would it be accepted? I think we'd just be getting a Shadowbringers2 where people will be here complaining about having nothing to do and calling it another Budget Expansion.
People will probly sit here and be all mad about waiting another 2.5 years for a "Real Expansion" because everything was put into making "The Missing Genders" Expansion Pack

I'm ok with that. Besides, what else are you going to do, play World of Warcraft?

I feel like the solution here would hopefully be SE giving FFXIV a bigger budget next time around and allowing them to beef up the team to handle the workload comfortably, even if it’s just contractors hired temporarily to create the assets. The two new races caused a lot of strain that apparently the Au Ra didn’t, I assume because they were juggling less at that time with a similar team size.

I feel like they’ve really proven themselves and deserve more resources from Papa SE. If they can get them, maybe our bunny dreams can come true without having to make the same sacrifices they did this time around.

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Originally Posted by BunniEclair

I feel like the solution here would hopefully be SE giving FFXIV a bigger budget next time around and allowing them to beef up the team to handle the workload comfortably, even if it’s just contractors hired temporarily to create the assets. The two new races caused a lot of strain that apparently the Au Ra didn’t, I assume because they were juggling less at that time with a similar team size.

I feel like they’ve really proven themselves and deserve more resources from Papa SE. If they can get them, maybe our bunny dreams can come true without having to make the same sacrifices they did this time around.

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I really really hope SE starts putting the budget ffxiv deserves int oit, it could become way bigger than it is rn with more promotion and more budget

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I mean..."What If" we definitively get Female Hrothgar and Male Viera, but the time it took to make them literally gave us less content to play in the next expansion?
Would it be worth it, would it be a fair trade? Would it be accepted? I think we'd just be getting a Shadowbringers2 where people will be here complaining about having nothing to do and calling it another Budget Expansion.
People will probly sit here and be all mad about waiting another 2.5 years for a "Real Expansion" because everything was put into making "The Missing Genders" Expansion Pack

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How is Shadowbringers a budget expansion? I mean they added loads of things that are new (Ocean Fishing, Ishgard) put more effort into the beast tribes (Pixie) and gave us an extra extreme trial. Seems to me there is lots of content, sure its not as much battle content, but content is content.

It's about the overall package, really. Imagine if FFXIV had the same production values as FF7's remake? A pipe dream, maybe, though FFXIV is really hurting lately due to its limitations and I fear it cannot live up to its full potential as a result.

Personally I'm hoping a new Final Fantasy MMO comes along sooner rather than later that isn't bound by the same restrictions. Though that's likely a few years away as I don't see a fresh MMO going live until 6.0 is wrapped up.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's about the overall package, really. Imagine if FFXIV had the same production values as FF7's remake? A pipe dream, maybe, though FFXIV is really hurting lately due to its limitations and I fear it cannot live up to its full potential as a result.

Personally I'm hoping a new Final Fantasy MMO comes along sooner rather than later that isn't bound by the same restrictions. Though that's likely a few years away as I don't see a fresh MMO going live until 6.0 is wrapped up.

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I think they'll do FFXIV until 7.0, with either 7.5 or 8.5 being thel ast pacth, and then they'll release the next MMO (wither FF XVII or FF online or some title like that)

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Originally Posted by zeylos

I think they'll do FFXIV until 7.0, with either 7.5 or 8.5 being thel ast pacth, and then they'll release the next MMO (wither FF XVII or FF online or some title like that)

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I doubt Square will end FFXIV because, unlike FFXI, this has not been hampered by the platform which it runs. As long as they continue to do graphics updates and end support for dead platforms there is no reason to end it. Look how long WoW has been going. FFXIV has the same chances of it going as well.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

I think they'll do FFXIV until 7.0, with either 7.5 or 8.5 being thel ast pacth, and then they'll release the next MMO (wither FF XVII or FF online or some title like that)

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Yeah, 6.0 is where the currently planned major story arcs are set to conclude. There's more that the development team can do after that so we could probably get an expansion or two that are entirely self isolated from everything else, but equally FFXI didn't continue to get expansion content after a certain point.

The next generation of consoles are also likely to be in full swing by that point too.

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Originally Posted by Pinkk

I doubt Square will end FFXIV because, unlike FFXI, this has not been hampered by the platform which it runs. As long as they continue to do graphics updates and end support for dead platforms there is no reason to end it. Look how long WoW has been going. FFXIV has the same chances of it going as well.

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Well, ffxiv is doign great, but in wow's 3rd expac they had like, 10 times the players of xiv. In WOTLK there were literally 12 million people actively playing. FFXIV isnt likely to see those numbers ever, so I bet SE will develop an MMO that dosent have the core flaws of XIV due to its 1.0 launch

XIV is not WoW, though, and for all appearances SE seems to consider it a success. I agree that SE should be giving it a much higher budget (and have expressed as much in this very thread) but I don't think they're thinking of the "New FF MMO" just yet. And even if they were, it wouldn't be the death of XIV. Heavens, XI is still alive.

If anything, I'd expect XIV on the PS5 either via retrocompatibility or port (which would later include graphical overhauls if/when PS4 support is dropped, though I wouldn't bet on that happening until around 3-4 years after the PS5 version).

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

How is Shadowbringers a budget expansion? I mean they added loads of things that are new (Ocean Fishing, Ishgard) put more effort into the beast tribes (Pixie) and gave us an extra extreme trial. Seems to me there is lots of content, sure its not as much battle content, but content is content.

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People call Shadowbringers a "Budget Expansion" because of the Missing Genders, the Pull Back of 2 Dungeons down to 1 per Major Patch, the lack of a Deep Dungeon, No New Healer Job, and I think people were harping about not having the Relic Questline sooner, and Ill bet people might harp "Budget" more now that Step 1 is a cakewalk and requires No effort this time.
I dont remember all of the Complaints, but thats a few I know of.

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

The "We are doing our best... but this is all I can say now." is structured oddly, and on a grammatical front, the elipse suggests there is more to say. That elipse is not required for the sentence that follows, so why include it? It could also be the article publisher, but I assume that the responses are provided in English by Square Enix directly and therefore its inclusion is deliberate.

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It just seems like a "pause for dramatic effect" to me. You don't need an ellipsis to imply there's more to be said - he outright states that there is more that *could* be said if they were able. It's still ambiguous; it could also just be about how awkwardly built their back-end system is and why they functionally can't add them right now.

Yes please

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It just seems like a "pause for dramatic effect" to me. You don't need an ellipsis to imply there's more to be said - he outright states that there is more that *could* be said if they were able. It's still ambiguous; it could also just be about how awkwardly built their back-end system is and why they functionally can't add them right now.

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I think it's because they have to remake the CC when they add a new race since HW/SB presets are different to ShB even preview icons are different

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Originally Posted by Duskane

I think it's because they have to remake the CC when they add a new race since HW/SB presets are different to ShB even preview icons are different

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That doesn't sound likely. Changing the interface isn't changing the CC itself. And did it change between HW/SB or is this the first time they've redone the default character presets? (Which in any case wouldn't be something they'd be required to do if rebuilding it - they've put those new designs in by choice, and varied them instead of setting everything to option 1-1-1-1-1.)

I support this idea on the condition that it does not reduce the actual playable content being produced for the game by putting strain on the development cycle. If it comes down to male Viera and female Hrothgar being added versus a content production cycle more akin to the prior to expansions, the decision is an easy one for me: content.

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Originally Posted by Pinkk

I doubt Square will end FFXIV because, unlike FFXI, this has not been hampered by the platform which it runs. As long as they continue to do graphics updates and end support for dead platforms there is no reason to end it. Look how long WoW has been going. FFXIV has the same chances of it going as well.

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Oh I dont mean end FFXIV Just that they'll leave it in a semi maintainance mode with very little content added not regularly, like XI. I really would LOVE if XIV is able to reinvent itself enough to be able to stay up for as long as wWoW has, and I mean, WoW isn't going away anytime soon, specialyl with how theire next expac is the most promising in years, so I'd love XIV to be able to do the same for long

There's no need to make another one as this one is fine. FF isnt going anywhere either as this game has always had it's own audience and niche.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

People call Shadowbringers a "Budget Expansion" because of the Missing Genders, the Pull Back of 2 Dungeons down to 1 per Major Patch, the lack of a Deep Dungeon, No New Healer Job, and I think people were harping about not having the Relic Questline sooner, and Ill bet people might harp "Budget" more now that Step 1 is a cakewalk and requires No effort this time.
I dont remember all of the Complaints, but thats a few I know of.

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That's just people on these forums being the embodiment of whine as they refuse to apply any critical thinking and just "see thing being different, react at it". I follow tons of FF fb groups as well as tweeter players and other forums, this place is the only place pushing this narrative that I've seen.
Sure, SE cut back on Dngs. But they explained it, we have well over 70 and tbh they're only there for you to consume for a few weeks before ignoring them. SE has the data, they know what's up. Tis why Dngs are just mob tunnels now, they saw how poorly the player base reacted to the complex dngs of old that demanded you actually read stuff and solve puzzles. They know how often people run these and how much effort it takes to make them and figured that effort would be better spent else where.

New races have no hats and no opposite gender? They explained that to. Coulda easily made a "bunny race" and "tall buff cat" race with hats if they legit just made them look like kitty people instead of the Viera and Hrothgar we have. And 2 full races was never happening in 1 expac.

This expac has given so much ... from reworking crafting into something interesting to Ishgard restoration to Ocean fishing to the gathering zone to trust (love me some trust cause most of the reason to grind Dngs is glam ... and 55% of the time a trust is faster than a player party) to BLU updates to and joining that list is a relic quest that's actually interesting, engaging and connected to the MSQ. From Copied Factory to Eden, this has been a banger of an expac so far.

This is the kinda game where it's unreasonable to expect things not to change. The more jobs they make, the more weapons they will have to design and model and the more things they will have to balance around each other. Not just that, more jobs mean more job quest means more writing and more cut-scenes they have to work on. Tis why they decided to start fusing them. Everything added makes adding something new in the future that much harder ... I could tots see an expac where they only have 1 new job or no new ones and just massive changes to some old ones.

I'm fairly sure they're saving the likes of Female hrothgar and boi buns for the next MMO at this point cause if they already think they hit their limit on the amount of bodies they can support then IDK how that's gonna change in a year.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

That's just people on these forums being the embodiment of whine as they refuse to apply any critical thinking and just "see thing being different, react at it". I follow tons of FF fb groups as well as tweeter players and other forums, this place is the only place pushing this narrative that I've seen.
Sure, SE cut back on Dngs. But they explained it, we have well over 70 and tbh they're only there for you to consume for a few weeks before ignoring them. SE has the data, they know what's up. Tis why Dngs are just mob tunnels now, they saw how poorly the player base reacted to the complex dngs of old that demanded you actually read stuff and solve puzzles. They know how often people run these and how much effort it takes to make them and figured that effort would be better spent else where.

New races have no hats and no opposite gender? They explained that to. Coulda easily made a "bunny race" and "tall buff cat" race with hats if they legit just made them look like kitty people instead of the Viera and Hrothgar we have. And 2 full races was never happening in 1 expac.

This expac has given so much ... from reworking crafting into something interesting to Ishgard restoration to Ocean fishing to the gathering zone to trust (love me some trust cause most of the reason to grind Dngs is glam ... and 55% of the time a trust is faster than a player party) to BLU updates to and joining that list is a relic quest that's actually interesting, engaging and connected to the MSQ. From Copied Factory to Eden, this has been a banger of an expac so far.

This is the kinda game where it's unreasonable to expect things not to change. The more jobs they make, the more weapons they will have to design and model and the more things they will have to balance around each other. Not just that, more jobs mean more job quest means more writing and more cut-scenes they have to work on. Tis why they decided to start fusing them. Everything added makes adding something new in the future that much harder ... I could tots see an expac where they only have 1 new job or no new ones and just massive changes to some old ones.

I'm fairly sure they're saving the likes of Female hrothgar and boi buns for the next MMO at this point cause if they already think they hit their limit on the amount of bodies they can support then IDK how that's gonna change in a year.

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Judging by how you say they explained that too, we could use the same analogy and they could remove all jobs from the game except the monk and give ti 1 ability, then they explain it and its fine?

This game is no where near being slightly close to perfection, and as such, we must give out any criticism or request we have, in a respectfull manner, if we want the game to succed. I dont get how ppl try to cancel negative comments that can only improve the game

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

That's just people on these forums being the embodiment of whine as they refuse to apply any critical thinking and just "see thing being different, react at it". I follow tons of FF fb groups as well as tweeter players and other forums, this place is the only place pushing this narrative that I've seen.
Sure, SE cut back on Dngs. But they explained it, we have well over 70 and tbh they're only there for you to consume for a few weeks before ignoring them. SE has the data, they know what's up. Tis why Dngs are just mob tunnels now, they saw how poorly the player base reacted to the complex dngs of old that demanded you actually read stuff and solve puzzles. They know how often people run these and how much effort it takes to make them and figured that effort would be better spent else where.

New races have no hats and no opposite gender? They explained that to. Coulda easily made a "bunny race" and "tall buff cat" race with hats if they legit just made them look like kitty people instead of the Viera and Hrothgar we have. And 2 full races was never happening in 1 expac.

This expac has given so much ... from reworking crafting into something interesting to Ishgard restoration to Ocean fishing to the gathering zone to trust (love me some trust cause most of the reason to grind Dngs is glam ... and 55% of the time a trust is faster than a player party) to BLU updates to and joining that list is a relic quest that's actually interesting, engaging and connected to the MSQ. From Copied Factory to Eden, this has been a banger of an expac so far.

This is the kinda game where it's unreasonable to expect things not to change. The more jobs they make, the more weapons they will have to design and model and the more things they will have to balance around each other. Not just that, more jobs mean more job quest means more writing and more cut-scenes they have to work on. Tis why they decided to start fusing them. Everything added makes adding something new in the future that much harder ... I could tots see an expac where they only have 1 new job or no new ones and just massive changes to some old ones.

I'm fairly sure they're saving the likes of Female hrothgar and boi buns for the next MMO at this point cause if they already think they hit their limit on the amount of bodies they can support then IDK how that's gonna change in a year.

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Very well stated. I totally agree with everything you're said.

And again people completely ignore the purpose of this thread!
->Not to forget, there's an active thread going on where you can discuss aboud Shadowbringers-is-a-budget-expansion or however that topic is called. :facepalm:

Do something productive and post your characters in a bunny-suit or whatever you did ingame while Easter was a thing--- THAT would at least be somewhat close to the intention behind the support-male-Viera-idea. :steams steams steams:
( If my main was still a Lala, you had by now a cooked potato, really. :V )

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

There's no need to make another one as this one is fine. FF isnt going anywhere either as this game has always had it's own audience and niche.

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Assuming that the limitations holding back development are removed at some point during the next few years...then sure, there's no need for a fresh MMO. If, however, the game continues to be held back by limitations as we enter a new generation of consoles...then a fresh MMO would be very appealing. It wasn't so long ago that Square Enix sent out an e-mail survey asking players what they wanted to see in a new MMO. They could potentially be working on another MMO right now, in fact.

After playing FF7R, I'd be completely on board with an action based MMO making use of something similar to that game's combat system.

I'm fairly confident they're already at the drawing board for their next MMO offering. I like 7R's system, and would not mind seeing it implemented in an MMO, provided adjustments were made e.g. to the magic system, since 7R is designed with the idea that anyone can use it, whereas an MMO would require a more class-specific design, and so this would need to be beefed up, but the overall experience is fun. Absent a new engine for XIV, I'd be keen on a new SE MMO.

A new one overall I could see. A new FF MMO I couldn't see how both would survive in today's market. One of their other properties, maybe, but they would be known mainly to us as followers/fans of SE games. Anything is possible I suppose.

They take a lot of time to develop. If they're thinking ahead, like they did with XI, it could even end up being a FF IP, although I do recall some murmurs from Yoshi that he'd like to do something completely new. I think we'll probably see more information on that front come late 6.0 or early 7.0, though.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Judging by how you say they explained that too, we could use the same analogy and they could remove all jobs from the game except the monk and give ti 1 ability, then they explain it and its fine?

This game is no where near being slightly close to perfection, and as such, we must give out any criticism or request we have, in a respectfull manner, if we want the game to succed. I dont get how ppl try to cancel negative comments that can only improve the game

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Uh, no. What you just said was incoherent. Reivaxe explained it perfectly in his first sentence. "Refuse to apply critical thinking". Because first off, by going off what you said on using the same analogy is completely incoherent regarding just one class. It wouldn't make sense to do it and they wouldn't. They gave detailed explanations as to why some things are going the way they are pushing it - Dungeons,Races, etc., through interviews and notes. I don't know if you read these, i assume not as you are lost.

There is no such thing as a perfect game either. Because no matter, there will always be someone who "Whines". The community will always be split about what they want for the game and the developers will never win because you can't appease everybody. As for people trying to cancel negative comments that can "Improve" the game, it's because sometimes these comments have no logical or critical thought behind them. They may sound "Good" but in reality, not.

And yes, we must give criticism and feedback. But however, the saying goes "Just because you have the ability to open your mouth, doesn't mean you should" should apply to quite a few individuals throughout this forum. Take social media for example - countless people saying incoherent stuff. Now apply that to this forum in terms of feedback and criticism.

Sorry, i'm just sitting at work with absolutely nothing to do because of Covid-19 and my mind is racing. Just had to spew all this out. Nothing personal. It's just that i'm tired of people downplaying FFXIV because it doesn't "Have this or that" and "It should be this or that" and vice versa. Take the "Budget Expansion" thread for example. People are never happy and constantly whine even though they do try hard to appease everyone but simply can't. It irritates me. But this isn't about you, just getting it off my chest about the community in general.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

It's just that i'm tired of people downplaying FFXIV because it doesn't "Have this or that" and "It should be this or that" and vice versa. Take the "Budget Expansion" thread for example. People are never happy and constantly whine even though they do try hard to appease everyone but simply can't. It irritates me.

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This. I'm tired of the degree of complaints - and that people can't seem to post neutral discussion threads. We don't get a thread about the relic quest, we get "the relic quest is too short!"; we don't get a thread discussing the relic weapons, we get "the WHM relic is awful and SE should have tried harder!"... there's nothing wrong with a neutral title then saying you didn't like it, but what did others think of it?

There's "constructive criticism" and then there's an endless flood of complaints from a forum full of people with incompatible opinions about how every single thing ought to be.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

This. I'm tired of the degree of complaints - and that people can't seem to post neutral discussion threads. We don't get a thread about the relic quest, we get "the relic quest is too short!"; we don't get a thread discussing the relic weapons, we get "the WHM relic is awful and SE should have tried harder!"... there's nothing wrong with a neutral title then saying you didn't like it, but what did others think of it?

There's "constructive criticism" and then there's an endless flood of complaints from a forum full of people with incompatible opinions about how every single thing ought to be.

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This thread is the one I personally see as the largest whinethread though. I am pretty darned sure the Devs and their families know you people WANT MALE VIERA NOW. Please close this thread down, or I will more from supporting getting this M Viera to not support it and rather want a different race alltogether xD

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Originally Posted by Altera

This thread is the one I personally see as the largest whinethread though. I am pretty darned sure the Devs and their families know you people WANT MALE VIERA NOW. Please close this thread down, or I will more from supporting getting this M Viera to not support it and rather want a different race alltogether xD

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Or you could just i don't know, ignore it and move on if it bothers you that much. No one has a gun to your head.

It's gotten particularly less loud, too. Outside a handful of posters, the majority has calmed down and is barely expecting anything, more just being hopeful or sharing theories for the lulz. Like the oft repeated Horthgar Queen's possible appearance in 5.5(5), or the possibility of upgrades or CC expansion that would have to happen to make them possible.

Heck, I don't think anyone's even mentioned M!Viera/F!Hroth being released next patch in...what? 100-200 pages? Or at least done so with any degree of seriousness

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

There is no such thing as a perfect game either. Because no matter, there will always be someone who "Whines". The community will always be split about what they want for the game and the developers will never win because you can't appease everybody. As for people trying to cancel negative comments that can "Improve" the game, it's because sometimes these comments have no logical or critical thought behind them. They may sound "Good" but in reality, not.

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https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-conte...ote_tyrion.gif

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

I'm really hopeful given the new content that we will see a male Viera / Female Hrothgar reveal. But more so due to this

https://www.stevenmepham.co.uk/wp-co.../04/image0.jpg

Source: https://massivelyop.com/2020/04/07/o...d-yusuke-mogi/

The take away for me though is this line:

"I am aware of the desire to include a different gender of each of these races, but I’m afraid this feedback is not something we can easily incorporate. We are doing our best, but… that’s about all I can say now."

To me, it suggests they are trying to include them and at the moment it makes sense to not be able to confirm anything at this stage... if they are coming, we won't get a hard confirmation until the fan festival or an in-game reveal like Fran/yugiri. (Though i think these came after the Fanfest announcement)

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I saw this a while ago, but felt like commenting on it now. Yoshi P didn't say anything we didn't already know. However, I'm glad the team is considering feedback and trying their best, even though this is not something that can easily be incorporated. I'm also thankful that Yoshi P would bother touching upon this topic once again - it reassures me that they are at least thinking about this even now.

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Originally Posted by Altera

This thread is the one I personally see as the largest whinethread though. I am pretty darned sure the Devs and their families know you people WANT MALE VIERA NOW.

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Well yeah, that too. I only come in here occasionally.

Sure, it'd be nice if they could get the other genders sorted, but they've made it incredibly clear that they know and that they would like to implement it if it were possible. So keeping on at them just feels like pestering at this point. (Or if they are secretly working on it, then they don't need to be asked to do it.)

I certainly wouldn't want to be continuously asked about something I know people want from me if I know I can't provide it.

That said... keeping thread going because you have new things to post is fine to me, but keeping it going "just to keep reminding the devs we want it" is what seems unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Senn

I saw this a while ago, but felt like commenting on it now. Yoshi P didn't say anything we didn't already know. However, I'm glad the team is considering feedback and trying their best, even though this is not something that can easily be incorporated. I'm also thankful that Yoshi P would bother touching upon this topic once again - it reassures me that they are at least thinking about this even now.

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Wern't they thinking about this since last year? I mean it was already addressed, several times, and people continued to push, like the more they say "Missing Genders" the faster they'd get them.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Wern't they thinking about this since last year? I mean it was already addressed, several times, and people continued to push for answers like the more they say Missing Genders the faster they'd get them.

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Yeah, but it's nice to know that it's still on their mind even now. I can appreciate the fact he would touch on the subject, even if it's the same old same old. Having that line of communication open, and the willingness to still talk about it makes me appreciative.

This isn't necessarily directed at you, but people often come into this thread angry that people are pushing for answers - but who exactly? It's not like I'm one of the interviewers asking those questions. Pretty sure no one here in this thread is pushing male viera/female hrothgar in those interviews, either. There's only a single male viera thread on the first page. It's not a big deal.

I don't view voicing my support for the missing genders as pestering or demanding. I simply care about male Viera and female Hrothgar because I love those races and wish to fantasia my chars into them should they ever be implemented. It is also totally fine that people talk about what they care for (in a civilized manner). Isn't this what forums are for?

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Originally Posted by Senn

Yeah, but it's nice to know that it's still on their mind even now. I can appreciate the fact he would touch on the subject, even if it's the same old same old. Having that line of communication open, and the willingness to still talk about it makes me appreciative.

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Keeping the lines open to communicate... what, though? They've said there won't be anything coming in the foreseeable future. If they have to repeat at every interview that they're still not coming, that's time that could be spent on another question.

It just feels like so much time is spent (in general) on what isn't in the game instead of enjoying what there is.