What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by anhaato

So if people get brainwashed or fearmongered into consent then it's ok? And, again, the world was ultimately dying either way and they were seeing it to its destruction, Zodiark or no.

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????????

They... they saved the world? A whole point is made in Shadowbringers about how they were such selfless, good people they were willing to sacrifice themselves for those they loved? The face we're given, narratively, regarding the sacrifices, was Hythlodaeus. A-are you arguing Emet-Selch brainwashed and fearmongered him into consenting?

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Originally Posted by anhaato

So if people get brainwashed or fearmongered into consent then it's ok? And, again, the world was ultimately dying either way and they were seeing it to its destruction, Zodiark or no. Tell them the truth about what evil is out there? So they can freak out some more, and cause more destruction in their muh despair? Convince them they were wrong, because that was going so well? The intent of the Elpis arc was to stress that the original Etheirys was ruled by a flawed society that would either destroy itself or be destroyed, at the precipice of disaster Venat made her decision, and the final Elpis scene was trying to sum that up into a few minutes of footage. I got their intent, but I will admit that it was poorly illustrated through the Elpis arc. Instead of properly giving the impression that they would destroy themselves the way the other worlds did, they turned some bird into a galactic school shooter and her creator into her accomplice and sent them on a genocide mission. So in a way I understand your point and everyone else's but I don't agree.

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Brainwashed or fear mongered? That’s literally what she did with the sundering though. She sundered everyone and everything, and then kept it all a secret and even took to having the planet named after herself. How were they seeing it to it’s destruction? They were taking care of the planet, it was Hermes that ultimately had a hand in destroying it. Had she told them what was to come, it stands to reason they could combat it. The sundered world literally didn’t stand a better chance whatsoever. They all succumbed to despair just as much as well, the only reason the WoL even got as far as they did was because of the “flawed” society you speak of. There is nothing showing that the ancients would destroy themselves. The Plenty isn’t any indication whatsoever, but in the end, every civilization will fall at some point, so what they don’t deserve to live? They deserve to be ripped apart with 0 consent? Guess we should just kill all the sundered since eventually their civilization will fall apart.

My point TLDR is that the intent of the story was the express that the star was on the verge of killing itself off and that's when she chose to sunder them so the star wouldn't end at that moment. The writers failed to make a proper story around it so it came off wrong. People are straight up accusing the game of being pro-genocide and it's not that serious.

Sigh I just saw the interview Zepla covered and it confirmed what i have speculated for a while, a Garlemald expansion was gutted to rush the finale. This just crushed me, I have wanted a Garlean expansion for years, especially with how much they have been building up to it for the past 4 years all throughout Stormblood and Shadowbringers and it just got massacred because they wanted to be done with the story.

What is even more disappointing is that despite being the focus point for the original 6.0 expansion when 7.0 would be the Hydalyn and Zodiark story arch conclusion and like i said before the storyline being built up for 2 expansions Garlemald only gets 1 zone and it feels more like a side trip in the MQS. This is probably why Ilsabard feels so awkward on the map not even getting a map like Orthard, instead still being covered with clouds. Oh but that is okay because here is a zone with dumb moon bunnies and a final zone that was made only for the 6.0 MQS and serves no other purpose and could have easily been an instance like the Omega rift in 4.0.

What is more Garlemald has gotten very little side content compared to other stories despite being such a large part of the over all story and world building so far. I mean we have the the final role quest confirmed to be there but that is it. I can only hope it gets the Lions share of the stories in the patch questlines and hopefully an enclave like zone so that the main quests there are not just in the subway to make up for the lack of hub which I feel it would have gotten as the endgame hub if the original plan for 6.0 held.

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Originally Posted by anhaato

My point TLDR is that the intent of the story was the express that the star was on the verge of killing itself off and that's when she chose to sunder them so the star wouldn't end at that moment. The writers failed to make a proper story around it so it came off wrong. People are straight up accusing the game of being pro-genocide and it's not that serious.

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Yes, but the writers frame that all around her belief. She believes her people won't change (the in-game touchpoint to that is the strawmen in the post-Elpis scene), so she makes the decision to sunder them because of that belief - given that she hides the truth of it all from them, the question then becomes, what reason did she give them to change, besides platitudes? Her actions, whether from good intent or not, are genocidal. There are no two ways about it. She intends to end them as a species to bring about one which she believes will not succumb to the fate of the Plenty (and secondarily, which can manipulate dynamis more readily... although in effect this also makes them far, far more vulnerable to it.)

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Originally Posted by anhaato

My point TLDR is that the intent of the story was the express that the star was on the verge of killing itself off and that's when she chose to sunder them so the star wouldn't end at that moment. The writers failed to make a proper story around it so it came off wrong. People are straight up accusing the game of being pro-genocide and it's not that serious.

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But Zodiark shielded them from Meteion. And we know that even while sundered he shielded them for 12000+ years. That isn’t really on the verge of killing itself. The planet was thriving at that point where are you getting this information?

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Originally Posted by anhaato

My point TLDR is that the intent of the story was the express that the star was on the verge of killing itself off and that's when she chose to sunder them so the star wouldn't end at that moment. The writers failed to make a proper story around it so it came off wrong. People are straight up accusing the game of being pro-genocide and it's not that serious.

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Writing and storytelling in execution can put forth really troubling messages, through carelessness, even when the intention wasn't explicitly to do so. What we are left with is, for whatever reasons - the need to make people like Hydaelyn, the need to make the player feel generally positive, posit whatever you like - is a story that is scrambling to justify a reason the Ancients as a people had to die and that the person that definitively ended them did so for "the greater good" and "had no choice." That's, um, not unfair to call "genocide apologism." Kind of textbook, actually. I do wish I had a less loaded term to use than "genocide," honestly, but that word already flooded the lexicon of the FFXIV fanbase during Shadowbringers, so the cat is long out of the bag, and I can't really think of a better alternative to describe what was committed. If someone comes up with one it would actually be a relief.

But the sundering wasn't genocide anyway. Also I am getting ubermensch undertone with all the Ancient praise, which is ironic honestly.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

But Zodiark shielded them from Meteion. And we know that even while sundered he shielded them for 12000+ years. That isn’t really on the verge of killing itself. The planet was thriving at that point where are you getting this information?

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I mean, yeah, that's exactly why they failed. In making us sympathize with the Ascians over Shadowbringers they made Zodiark into a Not Actually Evil god, thus writing themselves into a hole that made it hard to justify why what Venat did was good. When they made Zodiark neutral at worst, the introduction of "oh the world was gonna die anyway" didn't really stick. Instead of accepting that Hydaelyn is now a morally gray figure at best (allowing us to defeat an intergalactic world-ender, at the price of ending a civilization) they tried and failed to retcon that back to Hydey good Zodey bad world gonna die (I feel like YoshiP was partly responsible for this) and it fell apart. This is intent vs result, my point.

I still have some hope that they can salvage the Garlean expansion after getting expansion gutted though. I hope that maybe one of the reasons they did this was to make the situation more unique in Ilsabard so that the plot was not to similar to Stormblood. Now with us having helped the capitol and Ilsabard being devastated by both the Civil War and apparently suffering the most damage from the final days, the various still active legions and the power vacuum that they wanted to create a more unique Ilsabard experience. I also hope that the developers see people wanting the clouds removed on Ilsabard and more traditional European fantasy zones which Ilsbard will have. I can imagine there could be a zone in Ilsabard inspired by Germany and Switzerland, something hinted at with the Online Store outfit as well as a Norwegian like zone and a more Gothic Romania like zone. And of course they can do a better conclusion to the Garlean storyline and do further world building with the Three Continents.

My main fear is that they are just going to Lazily have Ilsbard be resolved offscreen just like the Empire fell anticlimatically offscreen and all these storyarchs just remain on the cutting room floor and we will instead just go to Meracydia, or the New World, or other Shards to "Move On", locations i have almost zero interest in going to until this story is resolved in Ilsabard. If it is one of those locations first for 7.0 however then I may consider "moving on" and unsubscribing until an Ilsabard (or another Orthard) expansion is confirmed and use that time to whittle away at my increasing game library or further raise a Viera alt.