New hrothgar hairstyles are really bad.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings, everyone.

As there have been a lot of feedback surrounding Hrothgar and their hairstyles, we wanted to share a recent update from Yoshida during the recent patch notes reading. On the stream he discussed the specifications of Hrothgar and the difficulties regarding adding hairstyles for them.

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I'm sorry but Hrothgars have been lackluster since launched, if the developer team included Yoshida is offended and concerned that the feedback is extremely negative, then please remember the feeling of being disappointed of waiting for 3+ years only to receive poor results. People is fine with waiting, but no one can wait for years just to get some mediocre treatment compared to other race. Thank you for the response, we do not wish ill to any of the dev, but we are tired and furious to being told "please be patient and look forward to it" after years.

Have hope guys. I'm sure the devs are hastily working on the Hrothgar hairstyles as we speak.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings, everyone.

As there have been a lot of feedback surrounding Hrothgar and their hairstyles, we wanted to share a recent update from Yoshida during the recent patch notes reading. On the stream he discussed the specifications of Hrothgar and the difficulties regarding adding hairstyles for them.

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Hey. Thank you for the feedback.

But the devs have made one big mistake: they took unexpectedly something away from the players. In this case: the ears. I do not know one game, where the feedback was very positive when the devs did something like that. But i can remember games, where the feedback was negative. So please do not do it. :)


Cheers

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Originally Posted by Seafishie

Have hope guys. I'm sure the devs are hastily working on the Hrothgar hairstyles as we speak.

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Sure they will...

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BountifulG...ingHapuku.webp

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Originally Posted by Denji

I'm not a huge fan of them either but the fact that they're just a flat texture makes locking them behind a single face just... bizarre.

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It's down to everything running on a template – every race gets five on/off toggle settings. Removing the hair variant piece as a toggle option meant that they could pick one new thing to add, and for that face they added eyebrows instead of a new scar option like some of the other faces got. Players may consider either one the better deal.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

Hey. Thank you for the feedback.

But the devs have made one big mistake: they took unexpectedly something away from the players. In this case: the ears. I do not know one game, where the feedback was very positive when the devs did something like that. But i can remember games, where the feedback was negative. So please do not do it. :)


Cheers

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Spicy take here: I’m grateful for the missing ears. I despise the haircuts as they are. There’s nothing bestial or in-line with being Hrothgar there in the first place, and the additional shape of the skull alone is terrifying. When you couple that with the explanation “you have to imagine the ears under the hair” it undermines the excuses we’ve been given for no headgear support.

So the lack of ears has helped the community to rally around the fact that the devs have left Hrothgar essentially unfinished since ShB launch.

And as a Hrothgar, folks saying “You know, I don’t play Hrothgar, but y’all got done dirty,” that support means the world to me.

And if all we get out of this is the same crappy, out-of-touch hairstyles, just with ears instead of:

- Hairstyles in line with Hrothgar lore and design
- Hairstyles that make an attempt to conform to our skulls
- Frank talk from the dev team and transparency as to what they’re going to do about it
- The ability to use ALL the legacy hairstyles across all our faces, which is something every other race has
- The devs understanding that while face/ hair combinations for other races can be in the hundreds, Hrothgar have had 8, 2 per “skull” and even then swapping between the two cost $10
- That even when Viera hair was upgraded even then there was months of time to weigh in before implementation and there’s more work planned

Then.. …all we’ve really learned is that people should have ears. And, frankly, that kind of terrible dev response is something I expect from Blizzard. Not Square.

I *expect* from a game that values individual expression and design that races continue to evolve and mature and have the designs get more robust. And it means a ton to me that the community aren’t saying “this is what you deserve,” but rather “let’s make sure no one gets left behind.”

So, I’m grateful for my missing ears, and for anyone reading this.

I understand everyone's still upset.

But if this moderator doesn't get the feedback they're asking for, who's to say Yoshi will just accept the other feedbacks and take theirs into account, while we're ignored and wasted our opportunity? As far as I can see on the other forums they're not disappointed anymore. This might be our only chance for a really long time.

Voicing the disappointment, the slow production, bringing up how moderators do it better is perfectly valid, I'm not disregarding how you feel - but I really am worried we won't get this chance again. :(

Edit:
I think a fair compromise would be to ask them to hire a 3rd party group dedicated just to creating hairstyles, we should make it clear that we don't want to wait for a long time again. Can we agree on that?

Please just don't design female Hrothgar with the same restrictions male Hrothgar have. That is all I'm asking.

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Originally Posted by Kelev

Spicy take here: I’m grateful for the missing ears. I despise the haircuts as they are.

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I guess, you are the exception here. :D

The point is, it is a psychological thing. It is almost always bad to take away something from the players, they already had. :) It is like class/job nerfs. If you nerf something then it makes the players upset. It is better to make a class too weak and then buff it peu a peu than the opposite: make the class overpowered and then nerf it. The last approach will always produce complaints from the players, because they are already invested in the class and you make their investment obsolete.

It would be better to have a toggle, which allows to switch the ears on and off.


Cheers

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

I understand everyone's still upset.

But if this moderator doesn't get the feedback they're asking for, who's to say Yoshi will just accept the other feedbacks and take theirs into account, while we're ignored and wasted our opportunity? As far as I can see on the other forums they're not disappointed anymore. This might be our only chance for a really long time.

Voicing the disappointment, the slow production, bringing up how moderators do it better is perfectly valid, I'm not disregarding how you feel - but I really am worried we won't get this chance again. :(

Edit:
I think a fair compromise would be to ask them to hire a 3rd party group dedicated just to creating hairstyles, we should make it clear that we don't want to wait for a long time again. Can we agree on that?

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What are you talking about ? its over a 110 pages of feedback . Should I've put a billboard on the front of SE office to make them see it what's wrong with those haircuts ?

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Originally Posted by Retrisar

What are you talking about ? its over a 110 pages of feedback . Should I've put a billboard on the front of SE office to make them see it what's wrong with those haircuts ?

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I'm talking about the JPN forums etc. We're not the only ones they're gathering feedback from. They're not asking for 110 pages on how terrible the hairstyles Hrothgar received in 6.1 were, they're asking what YOU want to happen. Do you want race-exclusive hair which would take more time, or do you want them to continue giving you earless hairstyles? That's the feedback they're asking for.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings, everyone.

As there have been a lot of feedback surrounding Hrothgar and their hairstyles, we wanted to share a recent update from Yoshida during the recent patch notes reading. On the stream he discussed the specifications of Hrothgar and the difficulties regarding adding hairstyles for them.

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Thanks for the response on this thread.
The Aesthetician compatibility were baby steps but for now, personally:
* I would tackle new Hrothgar hairstyles as I prefer them in real life. The hairdresses/dev team can have all the time they need to do a proper hairstyle, as long as my ears aren't chopped. Also don't leave us 2 years in the dark with "it's going to come soon", proper transparency on these matters would be appreciated.
* Please ask via forums or polls, which existing hairstyles do players want for these races. The ones chosen are popular on other races but definitively don't look good on Hrothgars.
* I don't care about ears clipping on the hair.
* Another option would be doing a hairstyle contest as it was done in the past but for Hrothgars, as it's currently the race that most problems seem to have towards having new designs.

Sorry for all these points but again, this is how I would personally tackle these problems.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

I'm talking about the JPN forums etc. We're not the only ones they're gathering feedback from. They're not asking for 110 pages on how terrible the hairstyles Hrothgar received in 6.1 were, they're asking what YOU want to happen. Do you want race-exclusive hair which would take more time, or do you want them to continue giving you earless hairstyles? That's the feedback they're asking for.

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Even though I don't play Hrothgar, what I would want is:

Implement all the unlockable hairstyles (the modern aesthetics ones) for Hrothgar with ears. There is no reason to not have the ears. Modders have already implemented tons of adjusted vanilla hairstyles with ears clipping through and it's okay like that. It's not like the hair Square Enix implemented don't clip neither. Once these hairstyles are implemented, maybe add a couple race-exclusive hairstyles, and whenever a new modern aesthetics hairstyle is released, implement that one for Hrothgar as well.

It is absolutely, 100% definitely possible, and not that hard, because modders already prove that it is possible with no issues whatsoever. Here you have a few examples that it's definitely possible, including the snow hairstyle where SE removed the ears for no reason:

https://i.imgur.com/0TkEDdP.png

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings, everyone.

As there have been a lot of feedback surrounding Hrothgar and their hairstyles, we wanted to share a recent update from Yoshida during the recent patch notes reading. On the stream he discussed the specifications of Hrothgar and the difficulties regarding adding hairstyles for them.

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I think I need to add my voice as well, which is not what what most are saying in these threads. I don't think they need exclusive "bestial" hairstyles made just for them, I like the modern hairstyles the other races have and I would like that the rest of them are added in the game. I think it's not a problem if they have ears but the ears clip, no one cares about that and would prefer it to no ears. I think it would be a shame if SE never releases the other hairstyles, like wind caller, because they are focused making exclusive hairstyles for hroths. Hrothgar are more man than beast, they're not charr and not some bestial wild animal. I think modern hairstyles are important specially since this game has so many modern glamours.

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Originally Posted by Starshower

I think I need to add my voice as well, which is not what what most are saying in these threads. I don't think they need exclusive "bestial" hairstyles made just for them, I like the modern hairstyles the other races have and I would like that the rest of them are added in the game. I think it's not a problem if they have ears but the ears clip, no one cares about that and would prefer it to no ears. I think it would be a shame if SE never releases the other hairstyles, like wind caller, because they are focused making exclusive hairstyles for hroths. Hrothgar are more man than beast, they're not charr and not some bestial wild animal. I think modern hairstyles are important specially since this game has so many modern glamours.

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They what now ? more a man then a beast ? Whatever you sniffing better stop it .Whole idea of Hrothgar was to make it a bestial race . If i would like to play a human like race i would choose anything else.

I don't think there is anything truly speaking against allowing hairstyles of a different kind in general, more wild and "beastly" ones and more modern ones that also fit to casual attire or so. There should be option for both - with visible ears because it shouldn't be necessary to use Werewolf Ears or the Tamamo Headband as workaround. After all, other races also have several styles to choose from, with short, long, straight and fluffy hair. It is good to have variations. However, the ones we got just now with 6.1 would already fit the category for less "bestial" hair, so in my opinion what is added next should suit the other part of that scale. But if we're talking longterm, there should be room for both, just like for every other FFXIV character race as well.

Yeah... I have no idea how they thought those hairstyles were okay.

More options are always nice be it more beastly or otherwise.

I'd start by being more transparent about the actual issues with the race. Yoshida is not helping the dev team with this by not explaining things properly. Doesn't take much, really. Speak up and be HONEST. The players would surely be more understanding if you didn't feed us half-assed responses or straight up lies.

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Originally Posted by Alieno

I'd start by being more transparent about the actual issues with the race. Yoshida is not helping the dev team with this by not explaining things properly. Doesn't take much, really. Speak up and be HONEST. The players would surely be more understanding if you didn't feed us half-assed responses or straight up lies.

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People would also be far more accepting if modders didn't do things the devs say are impossible in less than a day...

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Originally Posted by Raim

I'd rather they be added less frequently than have cut corner I mean cut ears. And I still question why the development team is so slow in adding these when 'other people' manage to get other hairs working on the two races. Not that I condone such actions, but I want answers as to why its not difficult for them but it is for the staff of a massive company. Have a member of the staff in charge of designing and implementing hairstyles sit down and type out the entire process. Don't tell us "Its too complicated you wouldn't understand."

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1. At this point I think the people that aren't modding have the patience of a saint. Either that or are too lazy to mod (like me LOL)
2. They know that if they were to put a staff member to explain the reason for their limitations, the people that work in the field or have knowledge of this would disprove their claims really quick, or come up with quick solutions for their problems. And it would look bad on them for telling lies or exaggerating the problem cause they don't want to bother with it.

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

1. At this point I think the people that aren't modding have the patience of a saint. Either that or are too lazy to mod (like me LOL)
2. They know that if they were to put a staff member to explain the reason for their limitations, the people that work in the field or have knowledge of this would disprove their claims really quick, or come up with quick solutions for their problems. And it would look bad on them for telling lies or exaggerating the problem cause they don't want to bother with it.

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It's also priority. Hrothgar are pretty much on the backburner in their ticket system - they just won't openly say it.

If I had to gauge what their priority system looks like it's class fix > DF content > General casual content > Glamour > Raids > et al. > BLU.
lol

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Originally Posted by Denji

Okay no but for real is the peanut hroth real?

Because... dang. That got in? That seriously got in??

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Personally I see it more as a Kidney bean
https://michiganbean.com/wp-content/...neyBean_02.jpg

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Originally Posted by Alieno

I'd start by being more transparent about the actual issues with the race. Yoshida is not helping the dev team with this by not explaining things properly. Doesn't take much, really. Speak up and be HONEST. The players would surely be more understanding if you didn't feed us half-assed responses or straight up lies.

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I guess, it is a management/policy problem with the race and not a technical one. The modders proved it, that the new hair styles and ears are possible without any problems. But the modders do not care about SQEX's internal policies. They are only limited by the game engine. And the game engine has far less limits, then one would expect. And if it is an internal management problem then i doubt, that Yoshi-P will be honest about it. Because he is a part of the management. When he says to the devs, that a player character must not exceed X polygons, then the game devs will not do that and they will try to work around it. The cluster f*ck with the Hrothgar looks like workarounds for me to circumvent some artifical limits, set by the management.




Cheers

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

I guess, it is a management/policy problem with the race and not a technical one. The modders proved it, that the new hair styles and ears are possible without any problems. But the modders do not care about SQEX's internal policies. They are only limited by the game engine. And the game engine has far less limits, then one would expect. And if it is an internal management problem then i doubt, that Yoshi-P will be honest about it. Because he is a part of the management. When he says to the devs, that a player character must not exceed X polygons, then the game devs will not do that and they will try to work around it. The cluster f*ck with the Hrothgar looks like workarounds for me to circumvent some artifical limits, set by the management.




Cheers

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Wasn't it proven already that 4K Hrothgar take less processing power to load than vanilla Viera though?

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

But I do think that they are blindsided now that we aren't praising their every decision.

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Yep, I'd say this is what is going on. Doing what seems like bare minimum isn't working as much anymore.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Wasn't it proven already that 4K Hrothgar take less processing power to load than vanilla Viera though?

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Here:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5887401

:)

It seems like it was a very vague test. And again, it is an example how a typical policy looks like in software development. There can be other policies like maximum texture size, maximum texture resolution, size of a map etc. Or maximum duration of a database query, maxmimum response time when X users are connected etc.

And the cluster f*ck, that SQEX does with the Hrothgar race is not explainable with technical limits. Because if there were technical limits, then not one single mod would work properly. And mods do not something, that is complicated. They just replace things like textures with improved versions of them.



Cheers

Welp, *puts on a tamamo headband* see you all in 3 years when our ears get superglued back on, hopefully, maybe, ahaha *sobs*

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Originally Posted by TsuchinokoPanda

Welp, *puts on a tamamo headband* see you all in 3 years when our ears get superglued back on, hopefully, maybe, ahaha *sobs*

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At this rate we'll be lucky if it's 3 years

Also I'm still pissed they gave Hrothgar hydrocephalus and thought that was good. This wasn't what I meant when I said I wanted jellybeans for easter.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

Here:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5887401

:)

It seems like it was a very vague test. And again, it is an example how a typical policy looks like in software development. There can be other policies like maximum texture size, maximum texture resolution, size of a map etc. Or maximum duration of a database query, maxmimum response time when X users are connected etc.

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Heh, thanks for linking. As said, it just were some quick and simple tests by people with lingering in crowded places, and use a mod to turn all player races into one race of choice only. For a full proof, there are far more samples with several configurations needed, if the effect can be replicated anytime.

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Originally Posted by Starshower

I think it's not a problem if they have ears but the ears clip, no one cares about that and would prefer it to no ears. I think it would be a shame if SE never releases the other hairstyles, like wind caller, because they are focused making exclusive hairstyles for hroths. Hrothgar are more man than beast, they're not charr and not some bestial wild animal. I think modern hairstyles are important specially since this game has so many modern glamours.

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Excuse me what? Idk if I should take this seriously from the first hrothgar with the hideous Karen-cut?? ô_o

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings, everyone.

As there have been a lot of feedback surrounding Hrothgar and their hairstyles, we wanted to share a recent update from Yoshida during the recent patch notes reading. On the stream he discussed the specifications of Hrothgar and the difficulties regarding adding hairstyles for them.

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excuses

modders already fixed it in 5 minutes lmao

https://i.imgur.com/8HZELXe.png

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Originally Posted by CodeAscalon

Excuse me what? Idk if I should take this seriously from the first hrothgar with the hideous Karen-cut?? ô_o

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It's Starshower, they're into that hair. And all the power to their Hrothgar, honestly. But thankfuly their opinion is not the majority, and excusing Square Enix's notoriously and proven lazy job this round can only make it all worse. Not just for us, but for other races and races to come.

Tamamo Headbands do not make a good alternative. No matter what we think.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

I'm talking about the JPN forums etc. We're not the only ones they're gathering feedback from. They're not asking for 110 pages on how terrible the hairstyles Hrothgar received in 6.1 were, they're asking what YOU want to happen. Do you want race-exclusive hair which would take more time, or do you want them to continue giving you earless hairstyles? That's the feedback they're asking for.

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I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that the dev team is so dense that they don't realize what the players want by now and have wanted for 3 years. It was even stated that Hrothgar and Viera would get their own unique hairstyles for their race to compensate for their lack of options from the start. And it was, for the most part, accepted. So we waited. And waited. ANNNND waited. What did we get? Something no one wanted or asked for. Yoshi P can feign ignorance all he wants, but it's a futile effort now.

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Originally Posted by Starshower

I think I need to add my voice as well, which is not what what most are saying in these threads. I don't think they need exclusive "bestial" hairstyles made just for them, I like the modern hairstyles the other races have and I would like that the rest of them are added in the game. I think it's not a problem if they have ears but the ears clip, no one cares about that and would prefer it to no ears. I think it would be a shame if SE never releases the other hairstyles, like wind caller, because they are focused making exclusive hairstyles for hroths. Hrothgar are more man than beast, they're not charr and not some bestial wild animal. I think modern hairstyles are important specially since this game has so many modern glamours.

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Whilst that may be your opinion, and you're allowed to have it. Hrothgar are still very bestial. Many of our emotes display that with the baring of teeth and the claw-like motions we make with our hands. Our race is made to be bestial, not human-like. We have aspects of Ronso, and they were a lot more bestial than Hrothgar with Digitigrade legs among others. One thing to remember is that XIV is European Fantasy when it comes to it's setting. These modern glamours are there... But they're novelty... I'd love to have some badass hairstyles that make my hrothgar look like a badass. Rather than a modern hairstyle that doesn't fit. I get that we all have different feelings. But people have been wanting exclusive bestial hairstyles because we know that if these are made, they will be made with the time and effort to make it exclusive for hrothgar, and will be better than some half-assed port.

https://i.imgur.com/ViuSXOY.jpg

While we wait for improvements in the next 6 years, can at least use tamamo headband to put ears on the no-ear hairstyles :D
(they're a bit big maybe .. but better than nothing, I guess)

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Yoshida: "Though it would mean new hairstyles would be added far less frequently, perhaps we could somehow create hairstyles dedicated to those head shapes. But I think that would lower the number of hairstyles we can implement…"

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How can it be any less frequent than it already is lmao.

Just unhide the ears and let them clip through. They are part of the head so all you have to do is change a setting. It's much worse looking to have no ears and women's hair styles on a Hrothgar than a little bit of clipping.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings, everyone.

As there have been a lot of feedback surrounding Hrothgar and their hairstyles, we wanted to share a recent update from Yoshida during the recent patch notes reading. On the stream he discussed the specifications of Hrothgar and the difficulties regarding adding hairstyles for them.

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Hello, and thank you! I appreciate the response, but, this is all information we've already heard. It's just, frustrating when you're met with the same response time and time again. I think what we need (aside from the obvious; a solution to hroth hair that doesnt feel slapdash or otherwise neglectful) is an actual technical explanation from the team. We NEED transparency on what's going on here. We hear lots of vague mention of troubles due to "unorthodox methods" this and "technical specifications" that, but when you constantly throw out claims like that without providing any substance, it quickly starts to feel like a flimsy excuse. I know it may feel like a more in depth explanation may be overkill but at this point any attempts to simplify feel like downplaying and are only going to build resentment among the playerbase.

It feels like there's no true dialogue when it comes to Viera and Hrothgar. Waaay back when they were first announced, I remember Yoshida stating in a LL that they would be getting their own unique hairstyles (which would be ideal!), but it seems that idea has been recanted at some point, then buried entirely. The most recent patch notes themselves were hastily edited last-minute to clear up some confusion regarding the need for fantasia to change hroth hair, but it didn't tell the whole story. You still need to pay $10.00 to swap to certain hairtstyles, and that's ridiculous.

Whenever an issue or question regarding the two races arises, we're told to give feedback on the forums, where we're sequestered off to complain with what feels like minimal acknowledgement. Or, if we are heard. We're told to be patient and get strung along year after year. This is the first bit of change we've seen to hrothgar in 3 years, and it's miserable. I don't know if I can wait another 3 for what might not even be a proper solution.

I'm fed up with the way these two races have been treated. All I can ask is to PLEASE, be more open about this. Let's get an actual dialogue going between the playerbase and the devs. Lets hear in detail what the holdup all this time has been. And, for feedback's sake, please pass along (hyperlinked to "all" "these" "other" "threads" to save space) all these other threads re: this issue to the team.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It was even stated that Hrothgar and Viera would get their own unique hairstyles for their race to compensate for their lack of options from the start.

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At this point I'm doubting if there was more was race-exclusive intended for these races... Trust me, I want nothing more than something to compensate for the lack of headgear, but isn't it weird to you how SE allegedly said one thing in 2019 and never again? At this point I am almost convinced it was just a mis-translation. A very cruel one at that e.e

Even with all the popular threads about these 'promised' race-exclusive hairs, never got the attention of the developers nor the moderators. Akimori has a very popular thread on the matter, with roughly 2,000 comments and more than 200,000 views, not a single moderator addressed it - what if it's because race exclusive hair was never an option?

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Originally Posted by CodeAscalon

Excuse me what? Idk if I should take this seriously from the first hrothgar with the hideous Karen-cut?? ô_o

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In the same way you don't attack people irl for their appearance, please do not attack people who use the haircut.
If you must, argue about the actual contents of their post — but do not dismiss or insult them based off their appearance.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

At this point I'm doubting if there was more was race-exclusive intended for these races... Trust me, I want nothing more than something to compensate for the lack of headgear, but isn't it weird to you how SE allegedly said one thing in 2019 and never again? At this point I am almost convinced it was just a mis-translation. A very cruel one at that e.e

Even with all the popular threads about these 'promised' race-exclusive hairs, never got the attention of the developers nor the moderators. Akimori has a very popular thread on the matter, with roughly 2,000 comments and more than 200,000 views, not a single moderator addressed it - what if it's because race exclusive hair was never an option?

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I would say this is true. I highly doubt they intended to ever even do hairstyles in the first place. They keep saying they weren't going to get hairstyles, even though there are quotes out there saying they would..