It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

Jeez 108 pages? Who cares what others think of your char, but at the same time if its not much effort just implement it, noone knows who uses it ... theres really no down side.

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Originally Posted by Voidedge_Ragna

Jeez 108 pages? Who cares what others think of your char, but at the same time if its not much effort just implement it, noone knows who uses it ... theres really no down side.

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Apparently to quite a few in the thread here, there is. They somehow can't bear the thought.

Also as someone who puts a lot of time, effort and gil into my glams, I DO NOT want to be seen in base gear. I understand that I pretty much have no control over mods, but I do not want to be seen in base gear ever. Just saying.

huh this thread still going on. Guess I will add more to it!


I dress up and look cool for others to see me. In game and in real life. You are kinda weird if you don't do it. Not that is a bad thing, but ya know..we don't need options for the select few. Life is not fair I know.

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Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd

Also as someone who puts a lot of time, effort and gil into my glams, I DO NOT want to be seen in base gear. I understand that I pretty much have no control over mods, but I do not want to be seen in base gear ever. Just saying.

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I put a lot of time, effort and gil into my own glamour pursuits. I wouldn't mind at all if other people were to see my character in base gear.

We can already turn down spell effects and tweak other elements as to how we see other characters - such as character lighting. It's not unreasonable for the development team to expand those options further, especially if they're client side.

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Originally Posted by Jadedsins

we don't need options for the select few.

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By that logic, gender locked gear should never have been unlocked.

Either people are all for more options or they're not. It's really that simple.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I put a lot of time, effort and gil into my own glamour pursuits. I wouldn't mind at all if other people were to see my character in base gear.

We can already turn down spell effects and tweak other elements as to how we see other characters - such as character lighting. It's not unreasonable for the development team to expand those options further, especially if they're client side.



By that logic, gender locked gear should never have been unlocked.

Either people are all for more options or they're not. It's really that simple.

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Ah but the big thing is. Fashion is part of the mmo thing. That select few wanted something that improved what mmos and social games it is. What you want is to take it away. :)

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Ah but the big thing is. Fashion is part of the mmo thing. That select few wanted something that improved what mmos and social games it is. What you want is to take it away. :)

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what those select few wanted was choice. Choice to wear something or not. Something I will always support is the choice to change your own experience as you wish.

The proposed option is adding choice. We choose to participate or not in almost all the "social" aspects of this game, why not this one?

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Ah but the big thing is. Fashion is part of the mmo thing. That select few wanted something that improved what mmos and social games it is. What you want is to take it away. :)

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Nobody is taking it away. It's an entirely client side feature. Not everybody even cares about the fashion element of the game in the first place - and even those who do don't necessarily want to see certain glamour combinations in the first place on their screen. You don't need to worry about people not being 'social' either. I chat with people during hunt trains and fishing. I'm sure other people who would make use of the toggle would also find other parts of the game to be social in.

Imagine games like Blade and Soul and TERA where showing off how hot you are is a major money maker, and those people are censored with official consent to wear their level 1 gear.

You'd effectively be killing revenue.

People buy dyes to be seen in those dyes by themselves and others. In fact, I wonder what an official stance on this could even be? Given glamours are sold on mogstation. Why would I pay for Edda's dress when I know no one else could see the thought put into my entire ensemble? Or, the censorship of the FFXIII items. Does it become a waste of money and loss of revenue? Something to consider.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Nobody is taking it away. It's an entirely client side feature. Not everybody even cares about the fashion element of the game in the first place - and even those who do don't necessarily want to see certain glamour combinations in the first place on their screen. You don't need to worry about people not being 'social' either. I chat with people during hunt trains and fishing. I'm sure other people who would make use of the toggle would also find other parts of the game to be social in.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

what those select few wanted was choice. Choice to wear something or not. Something I will always support is the choice to change your own experience as you wish.

The proposed option is adding choice. We choose to participate or not in almost all the "social" aspects of this game, why not this one?

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What are you talking about noone is taking away? How I look to you matters to the social aspect of a MMO. People spend so much Gil on how they look. Do you think they do it just for themselves?


When I was younger, I did not spend all my part time money on some numbers jordans just for myself. It was with the crew I hung out with.

Noone should have control over what I look like but me. That is it, and having a options gives players a choice I don't want them to have. It goes against the social aspect of what a MMO is.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

When I was younger, I did not spend all my part time money on some numbers jordans just for myself. It was with the crew I hung out with.

Noone should have control over what I look like but me. That is it, and having a options gives players a choice I don't want them to have. It goes against the social aspect of what a MMO is.

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You claim to glamour only for yourself, but openly admit you spent money on shoes for the group you hung out in. Sounds more loke you choose what you wear based on what others want.

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Originally Posted by Joven

You claim to glamour only for yourself, but openly admit you spent money on shoes for the group you hung out in. Sounds more loke you choose what you wear based on what others want.

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Huh? when did I say that? I'm not saying I did not. I must have missed typed. I've said all this time that I dress up for others as much as myself.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Huh? when did I say that? I'm not saying I did not. I must have missed typed. I've said all this time that I dress up for others as much as myself.

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I may have misread, I appologize

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Originally Posted by Joven

I may have misread, I appologize

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No problem! My typing is not that great. So it could be my bad also.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

What are you talking about noone is taking away? How I look to you matters to the social aspect of a MMO. People spend so much Gil on how they look. Do you think they do it just for themselves?

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And if I do not wish to participate in that aspect I shouldn't have to. I shouldn't have to socially interact with someone, via text or visuals.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Noone should have control over what I look like but me. That is it, and having a options gives players a choice I don't want them to have. It goes against the social aspect of what a MMO is.

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And nobody would. There have been options discussed that would effectively mask your character entirely, it wouldn't be your avatar, just a placeholder. Now if you INSIST that you must be apart of someone elses experience just because of the genre of game I'd like to point out that this is a recreational endeavor and forcing yourself upon someone else on their own dime is quite selfish.

An MMO is an MMO because lots of people are in the online world. They do not HAVE to interact with each other and they do not HAVE to have the same experience. I play FFXIV for the story, art and gameplay. The only social interaction I desire while I play is with my friends. Are you telling me I'm enjoying the game wrong?

Gees oh man. I honestly thought the opposition to additional choice would be mild but it has been so fierce in this thread. I really underestimated the extent of people's vanity. Do you really care that much about how others see you?

I've seen several people say the ones who want the glamour toggle need to self-reflect, but I think if you so desperately crave people's attention that you cannot stand the thought of not being able to show off your outfits, you need to do some self-reflection on why that is.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Gees oh man. I honestly thought the opposition to additional choice would be mild but it has been so fierce in this thread. I really underestimated the extent of people's vanity. Do you really care that much about how others see you?

I've seen several people say the ones who want the glamour toggle need to self-reflect, but I think if you so desperately crave people's attention that you cannot stand the thought of not being able to show off your outfits, you need to do some self-reflection on why that is.

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Yes I do, and here is a shocking thing... That is normal. Vanity is why we spend so much gil on our outfits.


I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Do I care how other people see me? Yes? That is normal. Are you trying to say it is not?


I'm confused as this is so shocking, or some people turning it around like this is a problem. This is how the world works and how video games cash in this aspect of people. lol



I feel like i am living in this strange world where people who are playing a MMO, wants to be able to have a option to turn off what gil I spent for my look. I don't know about you, but how could anyone not call that an anti mmo option?

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Yes I do, and here is a shocking thing... That is normal. Vanity is why we spend so much gil on our outfits.


I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Do I care how other people see me? Yes? That is normal. Are you trying to say it is not?

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I can't imagine living life caring what everyone around me thinks. I am my own person comfortable in my own skin. If someone likes me for who I am, great. If not, oh well. Is it normal to be vain? I don't know, maybe it is. Even if it was, that doesn't mean it is necessarily healthy. I can't imagine going out of my way to try to get people to notice me. I guess that's why this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

I feel like i am living in this strange world where people who are playing a MMO, wants to be able to have a option to turn off what gil I spent for my look. I don't know about you, but how could anyone not call that an anti mmo option?

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The more choice the better is what I have learned with MMOs, if the budget makes if feasible. This is an additional choice for players whereas your stance is to prevent this additional choice.

It's not really how the world works at all, since not everybody cares for fashion in the first place. In fact, the vast majority of people do not seem to care for it to any significant degree beyond what they themselves find to be appealing.

Looking at the opposition to this, there's a common trend of their lodestone profiles showing minimal investment in the game overall. So if they only want to obsess over glamour, that's fine - but their experiences in the game seem to be skewed and biased as they're not really partaking in a broad range of in-game activities in the first place. Assuming, of course, that people are posting on their main character...

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

I can't imagine living life caring what everyone around me thinks. I am my own person comfortable in my own skin. If someone likes me for who I am, great. If not, oh well. Is it normal? I don't know, maybe it is. Even if it was, that doesn't mean it is necessarily healthy. I can't imagine going out of my way to try to get people to notice me. I guess that's why this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

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I mean that is you, but when I go out with my friends. I want to look cool for myself and them. Also, this train of thought goes against why women spend wayyyy more money than men do on beauty stuff.


You are kinda the odd ball here. You are showing more anti social aspect. One thing not caring what others think to a certain point. However, if you go out in public looking like a bum, not caring about what others see. Well, that is kinda sad...but you do you fam. I'm just saying that most people not like that.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's not really how the world works at all, since not everybody cares for fashion in the first place. In fact, the vast majority of people do not seem to care for it to any significant degree beyond what they themselves find to be appealing.

Looking at the opposition to this, there's a common trend of their lodestone profiles showing minimal investment in the game overall. So if they only want to obsess over glamour, that's fine - but their experiences in the game seem to be skewed and biased as they're not really partaking in a broad range of in-game activities in the first place. Assuming, of course, that people are posting on their main character...

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You know, this reminds me when I was younger...and hated the money I spent on Vday. I looked to my girl and said...I show you I love you every day, why do I got to spend way more than you on vday. And she was like, The things i do for beauty not just for myself, or you but for everyone. The amount of money I spend day in and day out to look good, Vday is for you to show me just how much that means to you. Now shut up and buy me this doll.

My point is...you got some oddballs that might not care. They are not the normal. Your logic just made many of the women I know weep tears of blood.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

I mean that is you, but when I go out with my friends. I want to look cool for myself and them. Also, this train of thought goes against why women spend wayyyy more money than men do on beauty stuff.


You are kinda the odd ball here. You are showing more anti social aspect. One thing not caring what others think to a certain point. However, if you go out in public looking like a bum, not caring about what others see. Well, that is kinda sad...but you do you fam. I'm just saying that most people not like that.

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No, I don't go out looking like a bum, but I certainly am not spending 75$ per each piece of clothing going to designer stores. Honestly, it's very liberating to not have to stress myself over what the sea of people around me thinks. I am happy with myself and that's all that matters. If you can see your own inner beauty, you don't need the approval of others.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's not really how the world works at all, since not everybody cares for fashion in the first place. In fact, the vast majority of people do not seem to care for it to any significant degree beyond what they themselves find to be appealing.

Looking at the opposition to this, there's a common trend of their lodestone profiles showing minimal investment in the game overall. So if they only want to obsess over glamour, that's fine - but their experiences in the game seem to be skewed and biased as they're not really partaking in a broad range of in-game activities in the first place. Assuming, of course, that people are posting on their main character...

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...but...but I play for glamour. A lot of the game's content sucks... that's why I don't do it. :(

Can you imagine doing savage? Yeah it sometimes has some cool dyable glamour, but god way too much work!

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

No, I don't go out looking like a bum, but I certainly am not spending 75$ per each piece of clothing going to designer stores. Honestly, it's very liberating to not have to stress myself over what the sea of people around me thinks. I am happy with myself and that's all that matters. If you can see your own inner beauty, you don't need the approval of others.

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I mean some people don't go that far also, but part of you still cares that you don't look poorly. It is part of our nature. Comes a fine line in not caring what people think about you, but all of us like to hear we look good or being accepted even when not asked.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

I can't imagine living life caring what everyone around me thinks.

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I can't imagine posting the same buzzwords endlessly in this thread tbh.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

You know, this reminds me when I was younger...and hated the money I spent on Vday. I looked to my girl and said...I show you I love you every day, why do I got to spend way more than you on vday. And she was like, The things i do for beauty not just for myself, or you but for everyone. The amount of money I spend day in and day out to look good, Vday is for you to show me just how much that means to you. Now shut up and buy me this doll.

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This made me laugh. Kudos to your girlfriend, she is a keeper.

Though I will say that it's her choice to spend that money on her appearance, nobody is forcing her to doll herself up and I'm sure you'd love her regardless of how she looked, so assuming everyone needs to see you a certain way is personal perspective.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I can't imagine posting the same buzzwords endlessly in this thread tbh.

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You act as if the other side isn't equally as guilty of this. 'Self-expression, harassment, self-reflection.' This is unavoidable on a topic that is discussed for 111 pages. Of course there will be repeated phrases and words.

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Originally Posted by Joven

This made me laugh. Kudos to your girlfriend, she is a keeper.

Though I will say that it's her choice to spend that money on her appearance, nobody is forcing her to doll herself up and I'm sure you'd love her regardless of how she looked, so assuming everyone needs to see you a certain way is personal perspective.

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I mean sure, but it is just how we grow up. I've had some women argue that to be accepted in a social area that they needed to follow said rules. It just depends on who you grow up with.


I had my friend read some of this stuff, and he looked at me and said this mindset depends on where you live, and who you grew up with. (well he said only white people would say something that silly..but don't want to derail into that.) When he goes out, he buys new outfits and that is the normal being a young black man, and that was acceptable with his crew. Even being a white guy myself, they gave me hell on my looks at times. I mean this is kinda going off topic, but my point being with all this is that...I thought this was normal until I was reading some of the comments. I am shocked, and more amazed that people did not understand why how other people see us would matter to players, and also from a business side. Cash shop items and all that depends on it as well.


I try to be a open mind and understand perspectives..even if this mindset feels alien to me.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

I mean sure, but it is just how we grow up. I've had some women argue that to be accepted in a social area that they needed to follow said rules. It just depends on who you grow up with.


I had my friend read some of this stuff, and he looked at me and said this mindset depends on where you live, and who you grew up with. (well he said only white people would say something that silly..but don't want to derail into that.) When he goes out, he buys new outfits and that is the normal being a young black man, and that was acceptable with his crew. Even being a white guy myself, they gave me hell on my looks at times. I mean this is kinda going off topic, but my point being with all this is that...I thought this was normal until I was reading some of the comments. I am shocked, and more amazed that people did not understand why how other people see us would matter to players, and also from a business side. Cash shop items and all that depends on it as well.


I try to be a open mind and understand perspectives..even if this mindset feels alien to me.

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If I were in a group that expected me to buy new outfits every time I go out just to continue fitting in I would leave that group. If their only acceptance of you is your appearance then they are a very shallow bunch. I would prefer a group that would accept me for my personality and shared interests. I don't have time for superficial people in my life.

As for cash shop items: It may just be me, but I buy them solely for me and my entertainment.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

You act as if the other side isn't equally as guilty of this. 'Self-expression, harassment, self-reflection.' This is unavoidable on a topic that is discussed for 111 pages. Of course there will be repeated phrases and words.

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Most of the rest of the people on both sides of the argument have at least made an effort at some point to explain and add good reasoning their stance before it devolved into the same back and fro.

It'd actually be interesting to see how many times you've played the 'I can't imagine blah blah..' routine in this thread. I can think of two today alone.

And honestly, I haven't got any more value to add to my views on this that I haven't already stated a couple of times so meh. I'm not going to sit here on repeat for the rest of it. It's a pretty dumb topic and in honesty, even if I was in favour of it, I still wouldn't expect SE to actually implement it. People getting hooked on the glamour game is a not so insignificant revenue source after all.

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Originally Posted by Joven

As for cash shop items: It may just be me, but I buy them solely for me and my entertainment.

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Likewise. I bought the Shiva, Odin and Ultima statues purely for the emotes...and I only ever use them for my own entertainment inside my home.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

I try to be a open mind and understand perspectives..even if this mindset feels alien to me.

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There are literally millions of people out there all experiencing the same world you are but in millions of different ways.

You grew up where your "crew"s perception of you was vital. Many grew up with no "crew" and feel the only perspective that matters in the end is themselves.

While neither can be said to be the "correct" way, can you understand the bewilderment when someone who's entire life has been about managing and adjusting their own experience and expecting that everyone else is doing the same is told that they're supposed to worry about everyone elses supposed perception of themselves and that this is normal?
We're all playing the same game but we're definitely not experiencing it the same or expecting the same rewards.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

People getting hooked on the glamour game is a not so insignificant revenue source after all.

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I'm still confused as to why people think this option would hurt glamour sales so much. Sure people who buy glamours JUST to make other people look at them wouldn't buy them. But I'm thinking there is still a large contingent of people out there who buy glamours because they like how they look for themselves. This also opens up a market for more out there glamours since "immersion" "theme" and "job" breaking wouldn't hold any amount of water.

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Originally Posted by Joven

If I were in a group that expected me to buy new outfits every time I go out just to continue fitting in I would leave that group. If their only acceptance of you is your appearance then they are a very shallow bunch. I would prefer a group that would accept me for my personality and shared interests. I don't have time for superficial people in my life.

As for cash shop items: It may just be me, but I buy them solely for me and my entertainment.

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You only have that perspective because of how you grew up, and the values you have. He consider it normal to him. In fact, it is still a big part of the culture in the area I am in. Do you see my point? It is very normal for the people I am around to care more so about fashion. It just part of culture. It is not something we need to think about or even feel it is wrong. So in a mmo that heavily has a social element. I find it normal that people want to look good for themselves and for others to see them.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

There are literally millions of people out there all experiencing the same world you are but in millions of different ways.

You grew up where your "crew"s perception of you was vital. Many grew up with no "crew" and feel the only perspective that matters in the end is themselves.

While neither can be said to be the "correct" way, can you understand the bewilderment when someone who's entire life has been about managing and adjusting their own experience and expecting that everyone else is doing the same is told that they're supposed to worry about everyone elses supposed perception of themselves and that this is normal?
We're all playing the same game but we're definitely not experiencing it the same or expecting the same rewards.

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I mean sure, but it is still in our nature to look decent whatever we do. If you go to work, you need to be clean, If you go out to stop, you don't want to look dirty. Saying you don't care what others think might be true, but I am willing to bet that most people want to look good when they go out in public. =

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

You only have that perspective because of how you grew up, and the values you have. He consider it normal to him. In fact, it is still a big part of the culture in the area I am in. Do you see my point? It is very normal for the people I am around to care more so about fashion. It just part of culture. It is not something we need to think about or even feel it is wrong. So in a mmo that heavily has a social element. I find it normal that people want to look good for themselves and for others to see them.

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I do understand that, but at the same time it's no different in the game. Those who care about glamours would still be able to experience them while those who don't would get to have their own experience.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I'm still confused as to why people think this option would hurt glamour sales so much. Sure people who buy glamours JUST to make other people look at them wouldn't buy them. But I'm thinking there is still a large contingent of people out there who buy glamours because they like how they look for themselves. This also opens up a market for more out there glamours since "immersion" "theme" and "job" breaking wouldn't hold any amount of water.

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Because the swathes of people that are invariably wearing the latest cash shop item are literal walking advertisements for it. By disabling glamours you're likely never going to see these outfits unless you actively keep an eye on the launcher ads for them. In this regard it's not too dissimilar to why advertisers don't like you running ad-blockers. The average person who wants to run a blocker is going to be ignoring the advertising on these pages, yet even so, every now and again you'll get a bite from something that's actually of interest.

I worked for EA (via Bullfrog at least) at one stage, does it show? =(

I think majority of people would certainly care about how their character looked like in a single player RPG, even though there are no other players seeing it. This game might be an exception but if I would guess, I think most people adjust their chars aesthetics for their own enjoyment while caring less about other players their opinion (in any game). Buy yeah this game might attract a certain crowd that prioritizes validation from others idk.

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Originally Posted by Joven

I do understand that, but at the same time it's no different in the game. Those who care about glamours would still be able to experience them while those who don't would get to have their own experience.

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Because in a mmo. How others see you plays a big part of the game.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Buy yeah this game might attract a certain crowd that prioritizes validation from others idk.

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It really does, that's a pretty big part of the carrot with MMOs, always has been. From the days of loitering around or even ontop of Britain bank, lurking at the entrance to East Commons tunnel, Jeuno's AHs and on through to the days of people standing on the ramps and platforms in MorDhona and Idylshire with their latest glamours and mounts.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Because in a mmo. How others see you plays a big part of the game.

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Yes and no. This game in particular plays similar to a single player RPG. You are the sole focus of the story and as such other players are irrelevant. It's only in the social aspect that appearance plays a part to some people.