Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

I agree with what you are saying. Every time I see these threads however I find it ridiculous how people would kick other players in non-raid content for these things. Its more surprising given I just don't see this behavior it in game. In my experience this is just a forum thing that just wont die.

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Unless someone in game actually professes how worthless they are in party chat, I will just give them the benefit of the doubt.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Theres the specific dungeon opinion. Cleric stance was changed to make DPS more accessible to more casual players. Ultimately Yoshi Ps goal is to get more players healing in casual content, and the way to do that is to make it easy for them. He never says that not DPSing is the correct way to play, he instead says that as a player he would never see it as a requirement, which especially resonates with how different the Japanese structure of play is to the west.

Edit for post limits

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I think you and I are arguing the same thing, but wording it differently. DPSing as a healer is encouraged, meaning you should do it, but it's not "mandatory." To me, that word is what's causing so much trouble. Mandatory. Yoshi said healer dps is not "mandatory." Yet, nowhere did he said that healer dps is "discouraged." Just because yoshi said it's not mandatory doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. I hope this clears some things up.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

The two are actually connected - Many people will frustratedly stay silent ingame in cases like this, but vent those frustrations on the forums, linkshells, discord or FC chat instead, because you gotta vent somehow. The more pent up frustrations, the louder the debate.

I know I do. If I get bad players, I'm bitchin' and moanin' for days, but none of that ends up in party chat. I just silently hate them and then go to the forums to make angry posts.

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Maybe people should include tanks not using CDs and DPS being awful at doing damage as well in the conversation. People are probably so defensive because all the criticism is directed at the healers on here. There are plenty of bad players of every role.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

That's why I'm here at least... I want to play FF14 but have nothing to do in game

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I have been levelling up a 4th alt (my 4th healer to keep on topic-ish) for no other reason than to pass time (since I can't think of any logical reason I would need a 4th character). Oh and posting here, obviously.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Maybe people should include tanks not using CDs and DPS being awful at doing damage as well in the conversation. People are probably so defensive because all the criticism is directed at the healers on here. There are plenty of bad players of every role.

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This is true as well... I respond to these threads because.. well it is what is here. Believe me though I have a running tirade when someone is being poopy regardless of role.

Oh it's the Sylphies again.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Maybe people should include tanks not using CDs and DPS being awful at doing damage as well in the conversation. People are probably so defensive because all the criticism is directed at the healers on here. There are plenty of bad players of every role.

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We have been. Consistently. Unlike bad dps and tanks though, nobody ever defends them being awful except for a couple of idiots who get shouted down immediately. For some reason only healers try to defend their lousy play.

Like come on, there are multiple threads across this forum from the terminally lazy about how healers only heal. Find me one thread where a dps tries to say that they are a single target only dps and they don't have to AE and you don't pay their sub so you aren't allowed to dictate their playstyle. If it even exists I guarantee you it will be 95% of the posters in there telling the op to git gud.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Harassment is the wrong word and implies that zero-dps healers are the victim, try toxicity and division. No matter what side you are on, both sides are accountable to the divide.

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It is harassment though. If someone tells a healer in a dungeon NOT to dps that's harassment too. I'm using the term in the same way they talk about harassment with parsers. There would be no conflict if no one makes a complaint. Of course there's a significant difference in the complaint if the person doesn't fill their role requirements (which is needed for a clear) or if they perform efficiently (good dps or healer/tanks optimizing dps).

In most cases, one asking the healers to dps creates the conflict. Some reply rudely or sometimes there are healers who tell tanks not to speed run before anyone says anything, this creates conflict too. Whoever imposes their playstyle in a DF group beyond the bare minimum are the ones who harass.

This is coming from someone who likes to dps as a healer and min-max as a dps. I don't particularly blame others for the frustration of healers not dpsing or the healers who feel they shouldn't. I blame the content for have so much downtime. This is a design issue and the conflict is just a symptom. However, until it is fixed the ones who antagonize the issue aren't helping. That is, telling others that their playstyle is wrong mid-clear when there's no issue clear. If it's just advice that's fine and if they don't take it then that's fine too.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

We have been. Consistently. Unlike bad dps and tanks though, nobody ever defends them being awful except for a couple of idiots who get shouted down immediately. For some reason only healers try to defend their lousy play.

Like come on, there are multiple threads across this forum from the terminally lazy about how healers only heal. Find me one thread where a dps tries to say that they are a single target only dps and they don't have to AE and you don't pay their sub so you aren't allowed to dictate their playstyle. If it even exists I guarantee you it will be 95% of the posters in there telling the op to git gud.

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so basicly ur just jelous of a healer because they dont have to press as much buttons as you do? :P

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

We have been. Consistently. Unlike bad dps and tanks though, nobody ever defends them being awful except for a couple of idiots who get shouted down immediately. For some reason only healers try to defend their lousy play.

Like come on, there are multiple threads across this forum from the terminally lazy about how healers only heal. Find me one thread where a dps tries to say that they are a single target only dps and they don't have to AE and you don't pay their sub so you aren't allowed to dictate their playstyle. If it even exists I guarantee you it will be 95% of the posters in there telling the op to git gud.

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I can say that I come across more ice mages in game than healers that don't dps. Even more so, many tanks that don't use CDs.... that is very common.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

I can say that I come across more ice mages in game than healers that don't dps. Even more so, many tanks that don't use CDs.... that is very common.

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I find this mystifying, I've never seen an ice mage, but I do constantly run into honest healers in ldr. I definitely run into more terrible dps though, loosely defined as doing less than half my damage.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

I find this mystifying, I've never seen an ice mage, but I do constantly run into honest healers in ldr. I definitely run into more terrible dps though, loosely defined as doing less than half my damage.

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I don't raid. Any comments I make are from a EX primal or lower standpoint.
I cant deal with statics and scheduled time to play.

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

why id love to counter all of useless arguments , wich are just showing , that most of the posters here dont have a common sense in how an adult should behave correctly , i have to adress more urgent stuff in rl :P

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Lol we have an adult finally here guys! But she ran off to do big grown up responsibilities :(

I'm posting to contribute this thread to circle around till it reaches 200 pages before SB hits.

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

why id love to counter all of useless arguments , wich are just showing , that most of the posters here dont have a common sense in how an adult should behave correctly , i have to adress more urgent stuff in rl :P

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https://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thi...l&tid=77321579

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Nope. Although i do remember the beta rage about how duty honor country was so difficult and impossible to clear. But I never saw it. I one shot that quest with no potions antidotes or anything it was never that hard.

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A bit off topic, but let me tell you a story about Duty, Honor, Country. Initially, the gargoyle had a decent chance to use his poison ability, I'd say 40% to 50%. At that time, the poison would kill a THM in four ticks. He'd usually open with the poison, you'd antidote it, and then work on killing him. Unless you were unlucky, and he'd re-apply that poison, which meant your antidote was still on its long cooldown. In my case, I landed that 40-50% six times in a row, immediately after using the antidote, and because the first poison got a tick off, the second poison would kill me in less than seven seconds.

For Gladiator, it wouldn't be a huge problem. But that gargoyle most likely has the most THM kills in the game, still to this day.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

I can say that I come across more ice mages in game than healers that don't dps. Even more so, many tanks that don't use CDs.... that is very common.

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Are Ice mages a Balmung thing as I don't think I've ever seen a serious one...

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Are Ice mages a Balmung thing as I don't think I've ever seen a serious one...

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You see them most in leveling DF roullete

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Originally Posted by Aramina

Let's see if we can make it 200 pages! (I am kidding don't hit me).

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Let's just Nerf healer heals then. Cure and equivalents have a base 200 potency, Cure 2 and equivalents have 250, and Regen's have a total potency of 225.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

You see them most in leveling DF roullete

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So just inexperienced then, have you considered helping them?

That has to be the most effective way for Yoshi to tell DPS players to git gud.

One day afk healers will realize that players asking them to follow their ABCs are generally not looking for a carry.

It seems to me that the "jumping, emote spamming" idle healer is something of a rarity? If I'm not DPSing, it's because I'm healing or because the party I'm with is so bad at avoiding damage that 5s in CS very well might result in a death. I've NEVER, literally not once, seen a healer idling when everyone is topped off. Matter of fact, I've died a few times when I've tanked with overzealous DPS healers.

I think the more reasonable take on the two sides is the Pro-DPS side expects effort (e.g. managing cooldowns, learning phases, getting a sense for the potency of HoTs etc.) all so you can squeeze in more DPS when feasible, and the other side is apprehensive about unreasonable expectations for healers to be considered 5th and 6th DPS places, or for healer DPS to be taken for granted. I don't think either side is really understanding one another. I don't think Pro-DPS folks expect a flawless DPS weave at all times, merely that healers try to DPS when they can. And I don't think the "heals only" camp is really arguing in favor of idling time, they just don't want to be pressured to be another DPS slot. But at the end of the day, we're just arguing in circles about what, in a few days, will not even matter.

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Originally Posted by Kaisinel

One day afk healers will realize that players asking them to follow their ABCs are generally not looking for a carry.

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The day people asking healers to dps aren't looking for a carry probably won't helping. Asking for help means that you are in fact asking someone to carry for you, and I have yet to see a single dps healer that doesn't consider their contribution carrying the team.

Greetings everyone!

Thank you for all of your feedbacks and we will be closing the thread now.

Farewell and take care!