How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

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Originally Posted by Wegente

I see, thanks. Do you apply the Chaos Thrust combo on the add as well? Or are you just using HT -> double TTT combo on it?
We have a Ninja by the way, we just take turns on who will do the second melee cage since it's a pretty big DPS loss for both of us.

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Ah, that's fair.

With no positionals since all frontal, the two combos you're looking at are:

HT>IDC4>P>TTT[pop]
100+180+220+(200+200+170+150+200+360)x1.1 = 1908
And:
HT>TTT4>P>TTT[pop]
100+150+200+360+200+170+150+200+360 = 1890

It averages out to be about the same, but the Disembowel also buffs up your PS+Jump, Leg Sweep, and Mercy Stroke (and geirskogul) and CT will tick about 3 times for an additional 105 potency, so I tend to use the CT one, but either is really just fine. One just gives you a bit of an extra edge over the other. I ignored HT and DoTs since that's identical between both.

(You use Phlebotomize because the 4th hit will be 200 potency and Phleb is 170+ticks - 1 tick bumps it over 200)

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Originally Posted by Wegente

I see, thanks. Do you apply the Chaos Thrust combo on the add as well? Or are you just using HT -> double TTT combo on it?
We have a Ninja by the way, we just take turns on who will do the second melee cage since it's a pretty big DPS loss for both of us.

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If you have a Ninja, you should never be doing the Purple jail in set number 2. You might have to do Purple jail in sets number 1 and 3, depending on where the bomb falls. If you trust your MCH, they can do it, but ranged dps usually gets 100% uptime in A7. Your WAR can also do the purple jail in set 1 if it falls in the second pair of jails since his Berserk will line up with that timing.

As per cooldowns, you shouldn't need to particularly pocket anything; you always get to start the jail with Leg Sweep, Power Surge + Jump, Mercy Stroke, Internal Release, and a fresh Blood activation. You also have Spineshatter to get back on the boss. Sometimes you have Dragonfire, but you really don't need it.

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Originally Posted by Garver

If you have a Ninja, you should never be doing the Purple jail in set number 2.

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I poked through a bit of their fflogs, Damey-chan. Their NIN is super good and it's the only Alarum jail they see in the fight, now, if they get tank/healer first, so it's totally fair to swap from pull to pull or week to week so they can both get a good parse.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

With no positionals since all frontal, the two combos you're looking at are:

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Just wanted to make a note on this, you *can* actually hit positionals on it. What you do is stand in the center of the add, then *right* as you're about to hit the ability that has a positional, you juke over to that side and then stay there (so as not to miss any autoattacks). Every now and then it won't register due to going a tad early, but I have a pretty high success rate with it. I know there's a video from a DRG PoV somewhere out there that shows it, so I'll try and dig for it.

I usually don't bother for the initial Heavy Thrust, since I'm attempting to start attacking immediately, but I admit that it may not be optimal to do that.

It can be a helpful technique for anyone just missing it though :)

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Originally Posted by JackFross

I poked through a bit of their fflogs, Damey-chan. Their NIN is super good and it's the only Alarum jail they see in the fight, now, if they get tank/healer first, so it's totally fair to swap from pull to pull or week to week so they can both get a good parse.

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I assumed that he was asking questions for a clear, not for PRs on FFLogs. In the latter case, DRG taking the jail duty for the NIN to have 100% boss uptime is perfectly reasonable. Everything still lines up the same way.

Xero, could you check your JXero reddit acc pls m8 ty ily

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Originally Posted by MiniTyra

Xero, could you check your JXero reddit acc pls m8 ty ily

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tyvm for the update. Cheers. ^^

- Edited: 20k Hits is pretty accurate for testing. My testing was not far off but it could be better. ty Sunny.

Please look forward to it.

Can I just say that I love this raid tier? It makes me actually think about my opener and rework it slightly based on the fight in order to work all the skills in and still have them back and ready for when I want the skills again.

Like the Swindler CT>CT opener so that you don't end up with a gimped CT on the boss before the adds spawn, or shifting Jumps around in the A8S opener (I have Jump just after CT to get it in before Seeds, SSD in the normal spot, and DFD after Full Thrust to safely handle mechanics because of my groups inconsistent seed placements). It's fun and makes me actually think about things rather than just doing the same shit every encounter.

It's also the first raid tier where holding buffs can have actually significant gains. It's just really fun that DPS is a dynamic thing, rather than the static, rote, kinda droll role that it's been since forever. Like - fights have always felt like they were timed perfectly with my optimal DRG opener. Midas is the first time that mechanics have started to actively undermine it and force me to adjust.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

Can I just say that I love this raid tier? It makes me actually think about my opener and rework it slightly based on the fight in order to work all the skills in and still have them back and ready for when I want the skills again.

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yup feels almost contrived even, like YoshiP hand tuned the fights to mess with the DRG opener to serve as a skill check. I will forever hate A7S because that stupid Corporal Punishment timing is waay too conveniently annoying, its like they know thats the exact time the potion/jump is coming out.

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Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

yup feels almost contrived even, like YoshiP hand tuned the fights to mess with the DRG opener to serve as a skill check. I will forever hate A7S because that stupid Corporal Punishment timing is waay too conveniently annoying, its like they know thats the exact time the potion/jump is coming out.

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Right!? Same with the Seeds in A8S! And then the Execution cast comes out right after an Impulse Drive, but takes long enough that I end up delaying my Disembowel until I'm hitting the Regulator.

I don't use potions because I hate how rigid they make my opener, so I'm unsure how exactly awful they make everything, but I can only imagine.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

Right!? Same with the Seeds in A8S! And then the Execution cast comes out right after an Impulse Drive, but takes long enough that I end up delaying my Disembowel until I'm hitting the Regulator.

I don't use potions because I hate how rigid they make my opener, so I'm unsure how exactly awful they make everything, but I can only imagine.

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Oh god I hate having to pot in A7S, you have to move for corporal juuuust when you have to spam the potion button. And to top it off, ur trying to hit the Chaos rear at the same time all in one fluid movement.
yeah, I hate it how you can't refresh CT before going on the regulator, waste of 10 seconds of ticks. On the flip note, I do like how fast Blaster takes to spawn, I've been experimenting with holding the Geirskogul to stack the BoTD prior to Onslaughter dying so I can get 2 Geirskoguls under BfB +IR on blaster. Our raid DPS is at a super awkward spot where we kill onslaughter about 5-10 seconds before the 60 sec CDs gets off so I end up having to hold it.

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Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

Oh god I hate having to pot in A7S, you have to move for corporal juuuust when you have to spam the potion button. And to top it off, ur trying to hit the Chaos rear at the same time all in one fluid movement.

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Yeah, I ended up changing mine a bit since my group just stacks the hammers on the ass and has us deal with it, rather than doing it a melee-friendly way, so I end up dropping Lock-On there and running however I need. I always miss the 4th's positional after CT but none others in the opener. I just do BL>IR+B4B>BotD+Leg>Power>Jump>DFD>SSD>Life+gsk for my ogcds starting after HT and haven't had issues. Leg Sweep after the CT had been icky for me with movement so meh.

First time posting in here, huge thanks for such an excellent thread!

I am looking for some advice on gear progression as our static works toward A5S. My current set: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/U5S6

I am on week 3 of Lore capping, and having picked up the Legs last week, I have 75 Lore left over before I start working on this weeks cap.

Main goals are to gear for Midas NM, Seph Ex, and eventually Midas S.

Main thing I am looking for is what order I should be picking up Lore gear in. I would like to mostly purchase gear that will be good even when I start getting Midas gear, but since that may be a ways off, buying a piece or two that I may replace is fine. Also curious as to whether the Anima Weapon is worth working towards, or if I should just get the Seph wep until I can pick up the Lore wep. Also unsure of what to meld to the lore gear for a temporary boost until I start working towards a BiS.

Any advice is appreciated! :)

The first thing you should do, imo, is grind out some Farthings from Void Ark to turn those 200's into 210's - it'll go a long way toward increasing your damage output. Optionally/ideally hit up Gordias savage for Gobtwines and Gobcoats alongside some Gordian drops (like the gloves from 2 and some accessories from 1 - 3 has twines, so maybe focus on twines from Farthings).

The best way to build, imho, is to look to the future. See which pieces are least likely to be replaced for the longest time. For example, the Lore pants, head, ring, and earring are all guaranteed to be on your BiS build, since the alternatives in those slots are just not as good. The above is a pretty good buy order. That takes you through pretty much all of the Lore you can spend before you need to save for the Spear, assuming you now have 2 Midan Gears in your inventory.

You can round out the rest of the missing slots with crafted gear if you want. Only one piece of crafted is necessary, imo - the chest piece. It won't be replaced until a8s is dead since it beats the i240 Lore chest in stat weight before melds.

As far as the Anima is concerned, the Rhongomiant is (marginally) less powerful than the Slipstream Partisan at i230, and we're not sure if the next step will be in 3.3 or 3.35 just yet. However, it's a long grind and will absolutely definitely completely be worth it going forward, so I would recommend at least starting on it, even while getting the Slipstream Partisan for the now.

As far as materia is concerned, meld III's and IV's on anything that's not i240 with normal consideration for stats, favoring ACC to cap.

CRIT V > CRIT IV > DET V > SKS V > CRIT III > SKS IV > DET IV > SKS III > DET III

Awesome, super helpful, thank you!

Credit goes to Judge_Xero for doing the original work and additional data collection

https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/2016/...-works-part-1/

Calling it now. A12S front accuracy will be 752. Place your bets!

Dibs on 753 ;p

#FFXIVBESTCOMMUNITY

I have the entire HQ 220 set equipped.
HQ220 chest : Slipstream Chest(230)
STR 111 : 121
VIT 119 : 131
SkSPeed 70 : 74

But the HQ220 chest gives me 100 crit and the Slip gives 106 accuracy.
Should i choose 100 crit over 10 more strength and 100 more accuracy?

My crit is 657 and my accuracy is 701

I want to deal the most damage possible, but im not sure which would give the most damage. I dont know if i should bother with the 240 stuff since 3.3 is in about 2 weeks. Anyone want to advise a newby drg?

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Originally Posted by xJimmehx

I have the entire HQ 220 set equipped.

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100 Crit is approximately +20 points of Strength, so yes? If you have the accuracy to support keeping it, keep it. If you're lacking melds at the moment, get on that. Buy the Slipstream pants, instead. That comparison is night and day - you trade acc/sks for crit/det. No contest which is better.

Meld accuracy and go for the slip pants.
Or grab slip gloves, hat, boots, ring, or earring. Those are all upgrades that trash the 220 crafted pieces.

Other, more important question - what weapon are you using?

Hey,

ooking for some serious advice, any feedback would be appreciated!

So i've been a Dragoon for awhile now, you could call me a filthy casual or whatever, but now I'm starting to raid... and with this I learn I'm a noob.

Currently running with a cool group and they have encouraged me to try maximise my dps. I've been advised to follow the rotations on this thread, which Is what I already do doh...

To confirm my rotation is - Heavy Thrust -> Impulse Drive -> Disembowel -> [Blood of the Dragon] -> Chaos Thrust -> 4th Tier Combo -> Phlebotomize -> True Thrust -> Vorpal Thrust -> Full Thrust -> 4th Tier Combo -> Repeat

and i weave cool downs in between as and when they pop.

is this rotation up to date? - and are there certain cooldowns i should only pop at the same time as others? can small details like this be vitally important?

Also if anybody has a good opener please share, i have one which I believe is okay but any recommendations is helpful!

(1/2)

(2/2)


so currently on A6 we are up to the 3rd boss. DPS stats on average below....

ME (Drg) - 1400-1200
Mach - 1600-1300
Monk - 1600-1300
Summoner - 1700-1300

these are probably not very accurate, but the message I'm trying to get across is that I'm always at least 100 dps behind. im ilvl 225 atm, no 140 pieces yet

Also, does anybody have any tips or videos on how to manage A6 as a fight?

Also melds! what should I stack? I have a mix of Det and skill speed at the moment... is this okay? or are you going to tell me I should be stacking crit hit rate out on EVERYTHING?

I am seriously hoping i can get my dps up by another 100-200 with your help and hopefully be kept on permanently with this static!

Cheers
Yoda Noob.

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Originally Posted by Jinzhu

It would be easier to evaluate a fight you cleared rather than a fight you're progressing on.

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okay well what about rotations, opener and melds too equip?

Okay just a few things to keep in mind.

The rotation you have IS up-to-date. That's how you should generally maintain DPS. There's certain optimizations here and there where you won't do that, but it's a good baseline.

As far as an opener is concerned, that is completely different based on the fight in the current raid tier. I don't use potions, and my openers for each turn are:

A5S:
[SSD]>HT>[LegS>BL]>ID>[IR>B4B]>Dis>[BotD]>CT>[PS]>4th>[Jump]>Ph>[gsk]>TT>VT>[LifeS]>FT>4th>[LegS]>HT>etc.
SSD to close because he's small with a large aggro radius. I hold DFD to drop on the snake when it spawns.

A6S:
HT>[delay-BL]>ID>[IR>B4B]>Dis>[BotD]>CT>[PS>LegS]>4th>[Jump]>Ph>[SSD]>TT>[gsk]>VT>[LifeS]>FT>4th>[LegS]>HT>etc.
Normal opener, sans DFD, which I hold to use on the Blaster Mirages.

On Swindler, it's even weirder, since I'll Life Surge the first 4th hit and use two CT combos, followed by HT>TT>VT on Swindler into FT>4th>HT>DFD on the gobwalker that spawns at the north.

A7S:
HT>[delay-BL]>ID>[IR>B4B]>Dis>[BotD>LegS]>CT>[PS]>4th>[Jump]>Ph>[DFD]>TT>[SSD]>VT>[LifeS>gsk]>FT>4th>HT>etc.
Standard opener, except I shift Leg Sweep 1 GCD forward so that I get it in before needing to dodge Hammers, because of how my group handles them. PS on the run, back in before the 4th hit GCD refills.

A8S:
HT>[LegS]>ID>[IR>B4B]>Dis>[BotD>PS]>CT>[Jump]>4th>[DFD]>Ph>[SSD]>TT>[gsk]>VT>[LifeS]>FT>4th>[LegS]>HT>etc.
I hold BL for Blaster and shift Leg Sweep earlier, since otherwise I wouldn't use it until after TT, which feels like way too long to hold a 20s cooldown.



As far as melds are concerned - lots of people ask "what should I meld?" and there's no right answer to that question. The priority order is (generally) ACC to cap, followed by Crit > Det > Sks. Crit IV is better than Sks V, Sks IV is better than Det IV, and other than that it's relatively linear with that priority.


This raid tier is all about doing DPS effectively and efficiently - NOT about burning everything as soon as it's ready. Study other Dragoons and learn when they hold and when they pop and how they DPS different phases of different fights.


//EDIT: OH YEAH AND. It's not a MAJOR gain, but Blood for Blood, Battle Litany, and Internal Release will all affect 1 additional GCD during their duration if you delay casting the buff until ~halfway through the recast of the GCD (if you double-tap ie. IR>B4B you'll absolutely get the +1 on B4B) turning B4B/BL from 8 to 9 and IR from 6 to 7. It's not major, but can help a lot, depending what that 9th GCD would have been.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

more important question - what weapon are you using?

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Thanks!
Also, Brionac, the i210 weapon.

thank you for your comments they are a great help! is it important to only pop GSK before a CT or FT ? or do you just pop as and when you have enough tics left?

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Originally Posted by xJimmehx

Thanks!
Also, Brionac, the i210 weapon.

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You should do one of the following:
1. Make sure you hit up A8N every week for a Midan Gear - get 7 + 1000 Lore to buy a Slipstream Partisan.
2. If you'd rather not spend Lore on that, get to work on the Anima quest line. The 240 Anima in 3.3 will be better than the Augmented Slipstream, but harder to get.

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Originally Posted by YodaBear

thank you for your comments they are a great help! is it important to only pop GSK before a CT or FT ? or do you just pop as and when you have enough tics left?

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The best way to use Geirskogul is to hardwire it into your rotation for every fight. Use it at the same time every run. Some people learn best by not using any at the start until they get the hang of how the phases go. I tend to go for broke at the start (use first in the opener, second during the second FT or third CT, depending how things go, then third one on the combo where I'll re-up BotD.

The exact timing isn't important except for the second gsk in 1 minute - and even then it only matters when you have 2 minutes of sustained DPS (like the opening phase of A8S or the phases before Boost 1 in A5S - those are the only two spots in Midas Savage where this really happens. Brute Justice might have long timers like that - I haven't gotten far enough to know for sure. In that situation, though, you wanna use it sometime between the 4th hit and CT/FT of the combo before the combo where you'll be re-casting BotD, or you'll run the risk of clipping a GCD to re-cast it or skipping a gsk.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

You should do one of the following:

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Alright, thank you very much.

Recently reactivated my sub after a bit of a hiatus. Turns out I still have my rotation in muscle memory, but I want to make sure I do the tweaks that need to be done in order to optimize things, and so I have a question about the opener. I don't use pots, so I usually do something like this:

H -> [BL+BFB] -> ID -> [IR+PS] -> DI -> [BOTD+LEGS] -> CT -> [GK+JUMP] -> 4TH -> [SSD] -> P -> [DFD] -> TT -> VT -> [LIFES] -> FT -> 4TH -> Repeat

But I see in the OP that the advanced opener puts BotD before Disembowel, which strikes me as odd. Doesn't that mean you lose a full GCD off your BotD timer?

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Originally Posted by seekified

Recently reactivated my sub after a bit of a hiatus. Turns out I still have my rotation in muscle memory, but I want to make sure I do the tweaks that need to be done in order to optimize things, and so I have a question about the opener. I don't use pots, so I usually do something like this:

H -> [BL+BFB] -> ID -> [IR+PS] -> DI -> [BOTD+LEGS] -> CT -> [GK+JUMP] -> 4TH -> [SSD] -> P -> [DFD] -> TT -> VT -> [LIFES] -> FT -> 4TH -> Repeat

But I see in the OP that the advanced opener puts BotD before Disembowel, which strikes me as odd. Doesn't that mean you lose a full GCD off your BotD timer?

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You're clipping after your Chaos Thrust. Jumps should always be used on their own, else you will clip the next GCD.

You're also (potentially) missing Disembowel bonus on your Leg Sweep, but that's a minor inefficiency.

I was wondering how do trick attack and hypercharge interact when used together? How much does trick attack add to dps these days? I have not kept up with the smaller details of all this in a long time, choosing not to stress anything but my interest is growing again. Thank you for your time

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Originally Posted by seekified

Recently reactivated my sub after a bit of a hiatus.

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Lemme restate a thing!

The optimal opener without a potion as far as I have been able to discern and test is:

H>[delay>BL]>ID>[IR>B4B]>Dis>[BotD]>CT>[LegS>PS]>4th>[Jump]>P>[DFD]>TT>[SSD]>VT>[gsk>LifeS]>FT>4th

Tips and tricks:
Be sure to delay BL, B4B, IR when used alone in a single spin. It'll net you +1 GCD under the buff.
Geirskogul is a fluid cooldown - even though it has a 10s timer, it can always be delayed to be the last one. You just need 3 per 60s - you're not using it on cooldown ever!
BotD is used BEFORE Disembowel in the opener because you wanna get the potion just before CT. It'll last for CT up through the crit Full Thrust. It also helps ease re-casts of BotD later down the road.

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Originally Posted by Garver

You're clipping after your Chaos Thrust. Jumps should always be used on their own, else you will clip the next GCD.

You're also (potentially) missing Disembowel bonus on your Leg Sweep, but that's a minor inefficiency.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

Lemme restate a thing!

The optimal opener without a potion as far as I have been able to discern and test is:

H>[delay>BL]>ID>[IR>B4B]>Dis>[BotD]>CT>[LegS>PS]>4th>[Jump]>P>[DFD]>TT>[SSD]>VT>[gsk>LifeS]>FT>4th

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Great input - will get back to the drawing board/dummy and readjust muscle memory accordingly. ;)

Hey guys, I am currently on A6S and would like to get the best gear I can get before reaching A7S and A8S.

Here's my char :

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/2972761/

I just bought the ilvl220 crafted body (no materias on it yet) and I don't wanna mess up.

Here's my actual gear on Ariyala :

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/U8QR

I can probably get one more part of the Lore set this week (don't know which one I should get and what kind of materia to put on it) and same goes with the crafted body (someone told me to go full DETER on it). I would like to upgrade to something good enough to keep going till A8S and from there, if we ever manage to clear it, farm the Midas stuff.

Any recommendations ?

Thanks !

Edit :

Tried my best to get something "decent" before I ever get the chance to farm Midas stuff and this is what I can get without messing too much with SS etc.

Update :

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/U8SB

Which provides the following stats :

STR : 1192
ACC : 705
CRIT : 1041
DET : 534
SS : 657

Recommended SS seems to be 652 so I would be a bit above that, but not sure if it's going to affect Geirskogul.

If you think I can get something better than that, let me know please.

Edit (2) :

Tried another setup :

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/U8VA

STR : 1197
ACC : 712
CRIT : 1045
DET : 563
SS : 645

Less SS and more STR, ACC (enough for A8S), decent CRIT and DET. I feel like I could be using this until all A6S/A7S/A8S stuff can be farmed with my FC, but I'll wait for you advices before jumping on it.

ACC cap for A8S is 699 frontal, not the 710 or w/e it says in the first post. It hasn't been updated lately.

I would personally aim for:

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/U91N

You drop SKS to a nicer ~600 value while bolstering Det, Crit, and Strength. You also maintain necessary Accuracy. All I changed was the two Det +6 melds to Crit +9 and swapped your boots to the Slipstream with 1 Acc IV and 1 Crit IV melded in.

Yeah I was using that post to build my set but thanks for providing a new one. I'll probably be using it until my FC can beat all the savage turns (and I am not expecting that anytime soon).

anyone can explain what is better? lore earring or midan earring? saw dervy going with midan, but I thought lore would be better since crit.

Everything is Multiplicative. So if you have a Hot Shot and Trick Attack up on the same time, it's 1.1*1.05 = 1.155, rather than 1.15. As for the amount of "averaged" DPS a Ninjas Trick Attack provides to a player/raid, it's 1+0.1*10/60 = 1.01666666667, or 1.6667% Raid DPS.

In regards to gear, Dervy is actually doing a complete overhaul of his set. He's getting Augmented Gloves, Belt and Earrings swap once he gets the Twines/Coats and dropping to 558 SS (well, 558ss + ss from lore weap)

alright thx for letting me know man

What are some very commonly asked topics/misunderstood concepts about the Dragoon which haven't, or have been poorly addressed thus far? Dervy is doing a complete overhaul of his original guide and wants to make sure that every possible topic has been covered; and yes, AoE rotations/DoT management will also be included.

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Originally Posted by MiniTyra

What are some very commonly asked topics/misunderstood concepts about the Dragoon which haven't, or have been poorly addressed thus far? Dervy is doing a complete overhaul of his original guide and wants to make sure that every possible topic has been covered; and yes, AoE rotations/DoT management will also be included.

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I'd like some updated pointers on how long it's worth holding positionals to get the extra potency (I believe the short answer before was "it's not"), and also an included potionless opener for us advanced-but-not-wealthy types. Can't think of much other than that.