Shots Fired: A Machinist Guide

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Originally Posted by White_Wolf_X

Can any tell me if mch gets better at higher lvl? cause right now at around 36 i'm having a hard time enjoying the class ( visuals are kinda lack luster ) and the rng on your 1-2-3 combo is kinda a pain lol xd

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Your 1-2-3 combo is your main combo aside from using oGCDs so... if you're not enjoying that I'd say play something else.

The only means to mitigate the RNG component of the 1-2-3 combo you get early. So if that's a problem you arn't going to like it in future either.

What you will get as you level up is tonnes of off-GCD attacks, combined with excellent access to damage buffs you'll almost always be weaving skills together for maximum effect, a playstyle very reminiscent of 2.5 DRG (I personally describe them as Bardgoons for people asking 'how does a MCH play?'). But if this isn't your thing, then you'll probably never have cause to warm up to the class.

You'll also find very quickly that you'll be heavily reliant on DRG to do max dps. If I get a dungeon with a Drg and we have equal gear, I can keep up with them. If I get a monk or ninja, I'll be 100 dps or so behind. It kind of sucks that we have no way to apply piercing debuff ourselves.

Hey there people I am leveling up machinist, I just got mine lvl 52 and unlocked Gauss Barrel and I have a question. When under Gauss Barrel and using split shot, should I stop and check if I have a slug shot proc and use it if I have one, or should I keep spaming split shot and then use my slug shot, like lvl 50 black mages do with their firestarter procs ? I'm not sure if you'll get what I mean as my english isn't perfect. And sorry if the question has been asked already.

How does the dps of MCH compare to BRD and the other jobs?
While the RNG is actually a lot of fun ( imo ), it kinda worries me a bit.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

How does the dps of MCH compare to BRD and the other jobs?
While the RNG is actually a lot of fun ( imo ), it kinda worries me a bit.

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I think it is even with Bard. MCH is more burst then low then burst again while bard is more constantly sustained damage with crappy burst.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

How does the dps of MCH compare to BRD and the other jobs?
While the RNG is actually a lot of fun ( imo ), it kinda worries me a bit.

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Rapid fire burst is hilarious in pvp to people that don't expect it. Had a NIN run up to me to try and kill me.
Needless to say he got bursted down so fast when he tried to run away I snared him with foot graze and then used between the eyes to crit him for 6k :s

MCH seems to sustain and burst a bit higher, just saying~

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Originally Posted by Livaille

When under Gauss Barrel and using split shot, should I stop and check if I have a slug shot proc and use it if I have one, or should I keep spaming split shot and then use my slug shot

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Ideally, you would notice and react in time to switch to Slug Shot as soon as the gcd wears off. The window for reacting can be pretty small depending on your latency.

You don't want to be in a situation where you cast Split Shot and then do nothing for a split second while you check if Slug Shot has procced or not. Remember the golden rule for DPS, ABC (Always Be Casting), you want to always be attacking something/casting something at all times if possible.

If you're not confident of being able to react in time, I guesstimate that it's better to just keep spamming Split Shot. It's better to occasionally make the mistake of doing an extra Split Shot when Slug Shot has already procced, than to have downtime where you're not casting anything at all because you're reacting too slowly.

I'd be interested to see the math for this though. If you go the spam Split Shot route, you'll lose DPS from occasionally getting duplicate procs (your second Split Shot procced Slug Shot again, which gets wasted because you already have a proc). If you go the route of not wasting procs at all and taking your time to think, you lose DPS from doing nothing every time you react too slowly.

To add on, you can help yourself here by taking advantage of every situation that gives you a longer than normal window to react to procs.

Tacking an ogcd attack on after Split Shot for example will give you a more generous window to react to a Slug Shot proc.

If something important like Hot Shot/Lead Shot is falling off soon (~3 seconds, for example). You have time to cast Split Shot once, and then because refreshing Hot Shot/Lead Shot has priority at this point, you can leisurely check if your Split Shot procced a Slug Shot while refreshing Hot Shot/Lead Shot.

In cases where your reaction to procs is not 100% perfect, it's little things like this that will give you marginal DPS increases, by reducing your opportunities to make a mistake.

Also, depending on timing, just go with hotshot-split shot-lead shot. If latency is a thing for you your rotation is better off with as much filling as possible.

I am able to react to the slug shot proc quickly enough, I was just wondering what was the best way to deal with it. Thanks for your answers.

Another tactic you can use is to conveniently centralize your Status Effect HUD bar to your character so you can see the proc immediately instead of waiting for the combo bracket to show.

I'm going to be trying a different opener, if anyone wants to critique it as well.

Gauss On

HC -> HS -> GR -> RS -> LS -> Reload -> WF + Gauss Off -> Split -> HE+B4B -> Slug (X-POT) + QR -> Split + Gauss On -> Rapid -> Clean -> Ric -> Slug -> Crit + Clean -> Head+Blank -> Split + GR

** Trying to get more AA in during WF
** Not sure if I can get GR to fit in twice

This might not be the right topic to ask but is there also some kind of topic discussing what they could've done better when implementing Machinist or what they should add in the future as QoL-Changes?

I'd really love to see what kind of ideas people have here for Machinist~~

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

I'm going to be trying a different opener, if anyone wants to critique it as well.

Gauss On

HC -> HS -> GR -> RS -> LS -> Reload -> WF + Gauss Off -> Split -> HE+B4B -> Slug (X-POT) + QR -> Split + Gauss On -> Rapid -> Clean -> Ric -> Slug -> Crit + Clean -> Head+Blank -> Split + GR

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It's hard to justify using Lead Shot before you're finished putting up all your buffs (BFB, HE, RS, Potion), it's by far our highest potency per cast time attack and you want it to be as strong as possible.

The way I see it, you always want to use your buffs from weakest to strongest too. If you cast BFB after Raging Strikes for instance, you're basically wasting one precious GCD of Raging Strikes uptime to stop DPS to cast the (weaker) BFB buff. So you can see it's better to do it the other way around, let the uptime of your weaker buffs get 'eaten' up by the more important things.

You can generally view the logical progression of the opener as split into phases of priorities like so,
1. Put up buffs from weakest to strongest where applicable i.e Hypercharge, BFB, HE, RS, Potion, Hot Shot
2. Lead Shot
3. Wildfire and Reload come next, you obviously want Wildfire up before you start getting into the meat of the opener, and Reload to make sure your Split/Slug/Clean sequence progresses smoothly
4. Proceed to cycle through Split/Slug/Clean, weave in any ogcds you have from strongest to weakest, use Rapid Fire and Reassemble sensibly

I personally favour this double Gauss Round opener that fulfills all the above considerations,

Hypercharge, BFB, HE, RS, Tank pulls the boss, Gauss Round
Hot Shot | Pot
Lead Shot | Reload
Split | Wildfire
Slug | Rapid Fire
Clean | Ricochet
Split | Head Graze, Blank
Slug | Reassemble
Clean | Quick Reload
Split | Gauss Round
Wildfire goes off

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Originally Posted by Kuraran

This might not be the right topic to ask but is there also some kind of topic discussing what they could've done better when implementing Machinist or what they should add in the future as QoL-Changes?

I'd really love to see what kind of ideas people have here for Machinist~~

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My biggest gripe with MCH is the way ammo works. It's completely different than what was in the preview, which was using it enhances different attacks in different ways, sort of how Dark Arts does for Dark Knight. Instead, we got Reload, which is basically a band-aid for our RNG proc attacks. Sadly, outside of our opener and buff phases, MCH is very basic.

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Originally Posted by Kuraran

This might not be the right topic to ask but is there also some kind of topic discussing what they could've done better when implementing Machinist or what they should add in the future as QoL-Changes?

I'd really love to see what kind of ideas people have here for Machinist~~

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more lively/cooler looking attack animations for a few skills, higher quality sound effects (Dismantle being the major one), add some life to the auto turrets like idle emotes when out of combat, or some combat bleep bloop noises...something.

side note: I thought MCH was supposed to be a gadget using, ammo juggling range dps instead of this kinda lame Physical Caster with meh support add ons

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

My biggest gripe with MCH is the way anmo works. It's completely different than what was in the preview, which was using it enhances different attacks in different ways, sort of how Dark Arts does for Dark Knight. Instead, we got Reload, which is basically a band-aid for out RNG proc attacks. Sadly, outside of our opener and buff phases, MCH is very basic.

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...what he said

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

My biggest gripe with MCH is the way anmo works. It's completely different than what was in the preview, which was using it enhances different attacks in different ways, sort of how Dark Arts does for Dark Knight. Instead, we got Reload, which is basically a band-aid for out RNG proc attacks. Sadly, outside of our opener and buff phases, MCH is very basic.

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The RNG is still my biggest gripe. While not terrible in execution, it is it's principle of design that bothers me. Its very sad to see when I am on a roll, it starts being nasty and not doing a proc after shooting 4-5 times. It reduces my DPS and TP some. I would of preferred something more consistent. Not a DPS increase or decrease, but something to make the process of it feel less RNG.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

My biggest gripe with MCH is the way anmo works. It's completely different than what was in the preview, which was using it enhances different attacks in different ways, sort of how Dark Arts does for Dark Knight. Instead, we got Reload, which is basically a band-aid for out RNG proc attacks. Sadly, outside of our opener and buff phases, MCH is very basic.

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What if they replaced dismantle and rend mind with more gauss barrel-style attachments which added different effects to your procced shots? EG, a procced clean shot with the dismantle barrel on would apply a physical damage down debuff, with gauss on it could apply some kind of vulnerability or a dot or something, etc. They talked about machinist having different weapon attachments for different situations a lot before release and I'm a little sad we didn't get that--it would make stancedancing and ammo management a much bigger part of the class...

That actually sounds good... There was no need to put aren't Dismantle and Rend Mind into two separate cooldowns as it is. I could picture have a few different attachments, off global cooldown, that you rotated through/switched between for different effects. It'd be similar to GW2 Engineers, where you switch between different kits for different abilities.

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Originally Posted by Odowla

MCH seems to sustain and burst a bit higher, just saying~

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my experience is different, with bard sustaining more dps in my own baseline parses (gear difference being accounted for) though disembowel is a bigger increase for machinists, since like 25.5% of a bard's damage is dots/flaming arrow lol (vs machinist where leadshot is around 11.5%, then wildfire is around 7.5%; though wildfire can mostly also be buffed by disembowel indirectly, so really, it's only 12% or so of a MCH's damage that isn't affected by disembowel, with the extra 0.5% from leadshot dot damage in wildfire)

their burst is sort of apples and oranges, too. wildfire is a big delayed burst, bard has immediate burst (ie - instant kill the alarums in a1 savage without needing to bait resins lol)

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

my experience is different

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I agree with this. I do think that MCH's are better for progression since they can maintain resources better but I'm fairly certain once we start seeing speedclears BRD will be on top.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

It's hard to justify using Lead Shot before you're finished putting up all your buffs (BFB, HE, RS, Potion), it's by far our highest potency per cast time attack and you want it to be as strong as possible.

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You are right. When I was initially looking at it, it didn't seem like I was getting the last couple skills under the HE/B4B timers if I popped them first prior to LS, so I was comparing the difference in gained potency from Wildfire if I delayed the cast till after LS.

One of the issues I was running into with excess latency, was not fitting the skills into the Buff timers and, my first Slug Shot not registering under Wildfire. Which I thought to alleviate both with swapping out of Gauss Barrel to have Wildfire Initialize quicker between the GCD and to be able to cast my buffs during the first couple GCD while not under the effect of GB. But, for some reason the AA Damage does not have as big of an impact on Wildfire, although calculated higher potency for AA + Split and AA + Slug. (and it gets very clunky swapping GB mid Burst)

So here's what I ended up doing, which is pretty well the same as the Double GR Opener.

Hypercharge, BFB, HE, RS, Tank pulls the boss, Gauss Round
Hot Shot | Pot
Lead Shot | Reload/Wildfire (this lets me get Wildfire Credit for both the first Split and Slug Shots, where as if I used Wildfire on the next Slug, it wouldn't register before Slug goes off due to it being instant cast)
Split | Quick Reload
Slug | Ricochet
Split | Reassemble/Rapid Fire
Clean | Blank
Slug | Head Graze
Split|
Clean | Gauss Round
Wildfire goes off

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

When I was initially looking at it, it didn't seem like I was getting the last couple skills under the HE/B4B timers if I popped them first prior to LS, so I was comparing the difference in gained potency from Wildfire if I delayed the cast till after LS.

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That's a fair point, and another good reason to make sure you're activating your buffs from weakest to strongest. Our opener is frontloaded with so many GCDs spent casting buffs, that it's good to think about how the order of activation affects which one falls off first later in the opener.

It's a small difference, but activating BFB before Raging Strikes for example is the difference between Raging Strikes being up just a little bit longer to affect one more shot later in the opener - which is better than the reverse situation where Raging Strikes falls off and you're left with the relatively weaker BFB buff for that last shot.

Also account for how rediculous BRD is to sustain high - that being said, i can sustain 1.2kish with both but sustaining it with b ard is so insane

Also, lol 12% on leadshot, i always knew it wazs that high but when you think of a single dot being 12% of your damage.. lol, holy shit

My static is moving into A2S and I'm looking for tips on how to best approach that fight - ideal cooldown usage per wave and things like that. We're still wiping on wave 5/6 so it's still early days for us, but I'd like to be prepared.

I'm pretty much just dotting everything up with Lead Shot at the start of each wave, and then moving into single target/AoE depending on the priority target, am I forgetting anything obvious?

Just have to wonder-- does anyone else think our Eso gun looks like a dust buster vacuum?

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Originally Posted by Myon88

My static is moving into A2S and I'm looking for tips on how to best approach that fight - ideal cooldown usage per wave and things like that. We're still wiping on wave 5/6 so it's still early days for us, but I'd like to be prepared.

I'm pretty much just dotting everything up with Lead Shot at the start of each wave, and then moving into single target/AoE depending on the priority target, am I forgetting anything obvious?

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with 3 weeks of clear, what i do is:
1st wave just singletarget, they die fast enough.
2nd wave with aoebot, singletarget (using reload, reassemble for funs, singletargeting)
3rd wave aoebot, dotting the biggob that spawns far away, popping all cds except raging+pot, then Grenados once tanks have pulled everything on one stack, invig once sub 540. changing to a quick tp bot when 1-2 gobs left.
4th wave aoebot in the middle, singletarget on the walker. mpbot when next wave spawns for a quick refresh.
5th wave dot widows, once all cds are up, go ham on the first widow. getting some sweet 9-10k WF:s.
6th wave i throw hypermpbot, we focus the biggob, then aoebot and dot all, focus walker -> doll -> widow. I'm savin cds for next wave.
7th wave it'd be optimal to aoebot all 4 but tanks......... I go and cds -> dot all 4 -> focus on clearing one tank.
8th wave aoebot until biggobs are down, mpbot to the end of the wave. aoe if i can
9th wave aoebot until small gobs are down, mpbot if heals low. dot walker, doll and if tp is fine, widows too. using cds on Doll, and then whenever they are up.
I think thats all. I dont really like the fight but whatever.

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Originally Posted by zandervont

snip

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I am going to try this out and see how it works for me. Small adjustments to cater to my group set up, but it all looks legit.

Thanks for that writeup, we're on wave 8 now - probably'll nail it this week with another week's worth of eso gear (many people getting big upgrades this week too, mmm that eso chest)

Yes, I got the chest this week after getting the gun last week. Next week, it's the legs. Then I'll focus on all the little stuff.

That's what I've done so far too, gun first then chest this week. Except I'm getting the ring as well this week, then nothing next week and legs the week after.

It might just be my loadout but I've got a massive glut of accuracy (604 now after buying the chest) and the ring seems like a good way to dump a bit of it. If I bought legs next week and no ring I'd be at 664 which would be ridiculous.

I've only got one accessory from savage so far, so that might be it, perhaps the gear in there is more favourably itemized.

cute MCH concept

rook on opener

promote>HE>BFB>HC>RS>promote off (no animation lock)>hot shot>opener as usual

can get 30-60 TP for free at the start w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5Hw9kbqCUY

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

cute MCH concept

rook on opener

promote>HE>BFB>HC>RS>promote off (no animation lock)>hot shot>opener as usual

can get 30-60 TP for free at the start w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5Hw9kbqCUY

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*casts Mug*

Question here. Not a mch yet but I will be soon. Is te rotation in the first page updated? I started reading it pretty helpful full so far. Would just like to know if it's up to date

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

Question here. Not a mch yet but I will be soon. Is te rotation in the first page updated? I started reading it pretty helpful full so far. Would just like to know if it's up to date

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It is not updated. I would look through more recent pages of this thread or recent YouTube videos for a better idea on rotations.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

My static is moving into A2S and I'm looking for tips on how to best approach that fight - ideal cooldown usage per wave and things like that. We're still wiping on wave 5/6 so it's still early days for us, but I'd like to be prepared.

I'm pretty much just dotting everything up with Lead Shot at the start of each wave, and then moving into single target/AoE depending on the priority target, am I forgetting anything obvious?

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I do a little bit different of a rotation than what Zandervont (not saying his is wrong and it also HEAVILY relies on your group composition, I have done the fight with SMN/BLM/MCH/ (gobwalking DRG), and MNK/BLM/MCH/(gobwalking DRG) and my cd rotation was MUCH different)

Wave 1. Single target.
Wave 2. Immediately turn on Rook Promote, Keep up hotshot and spam spread until 1 of the mobs dies and switch to ST.
Wave 3. As the next wave spawns, I make sure i have 740 TP or more before getting rid of the promote from the previous phase. Once I reach that point of TP i switch over to Bishop and pop hypercharge for Magic Vul Debuff. Pop all of my CD's other than B4B, Ragings Strikes, and Pot. Use Granado 3x with Rapid fire up, Spread shot once into an invigorate into spread shot spam until they are dead. If everyone does this phase perfectly you will have quite a bit of TP (in the 700-800 range).
Wave 4. Since we have a summoner I do not aoe in this phase as I found it more helpful to pick off the smaller targets while letting dots do the gobwalker. So i spend this phase with Bishop and lead shotting all targets and picking a Sniper and focusing them. Save your blank shot for the 2nd bomb spawn so your Gobwalker DPS can recharge off of the enemy Gobwalker. When he starts recharging i switch to Rook turret and promote to get me through the next phase. Once they all die I place Bishop where the Widow Spawns.
Wave 5. I start this phase off by Lead shotting all targets and into my wildfire Rotation on the first Widow (popping all of my cooldowns at this point). Once Wildfire pops I re-lead shot and continue until it is dead and begin focus on the 2nd widow. (Invigorate will be popped sometime in this or the next phase depending when you dip below the TP threshold to not waste any)
Wave 6. I make sure Bishop is in a good place to not die/hit all the mobs and then I pop Hypercharge. Do my single target Burst rotation (Reload should be up) on the Hardhelm until he is dead. As soon as he is I promote Bishop for healer MP. Lead shot all the rest of the mobs and kill Gobwalker->Jagd Doll->Widow. Switching to a Rook promote when Healer MP is topped off.
Wave 7. Target the first priority Jagd Doll and throw a Dismantle out to help with positioning damage. Put your Rook turret in a safe place, lead shot all the dolls and start your Single Target rotation (using wildfire BUT NOT BUFFS) on the priority Jagd Doll. Depending on DPS once you get 2 1/2 Jagd Dolls down the Phase will end.
Wave 8. I place Bishop in the center of the mobs and pop Hypercharge. Pop ALL of your cds at this point and repeat Phase 3. Using Granado Shot 3x with Rapid fire up and then switching to spread shot (Invigorate somewhere in here as well) Once all the High priority mobs are killed (Hardhelm/mind) Promote either Rook/Bishop depending on if you need tp or healers need mp. And finish off the Jagd Dolls.
Wave 9. This is where healer mana can get hairy so pay close attention. Start off with Rook turret and single target focus down the soldiers. Once the soldiers are done switch to Bishop and focus the Gobwalker->Snipers->Jagd Doll->Widow. Promoting when necessary (likely only will need Bishop Promote here)

Congrats you win.

I will post a video when I get a chance (however my Kill video with the SMN was not a perfect attempt as my mouse died part of the way through, but the attempt with the MNK is pretty spot on I believe. GOODLUCK!)

Holy hell dude just edit your first post.

Sorry I am a forum newb :[ Didn't know you could do it like that