An Open Letter to Yoshida-san: Please Slice One Zero Off the Housing Prices

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Originally Posted by Edellis

Whatever the real issue is, you guys just don't know. I haven't even been playing this game for a month and I can tell, it handles alot more server activity than your typical MMO would. I understand that many typical players wouldn't understand that type of thing, but the QQ is still a bit baffling.

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So limiting the number of people in a zone (with no overflow) because Odin used to crash entire servers is handling a lot?

Instanced housing versus open-world housing that has been around since at least 2000 is handling a lot?

Not being able to even whisper or see your friends list in an instance is handling a lot?

Admitting they cannot PHYSICALLY implement more housing instances right now is handling a lot?

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x...g?t=1387399974

Not a single plot of land bought in all 5 wards.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

This is exactly what im talking about. An unexpected amount of server stress from player activity = unsuccessful launch? On which planet, can I ask?

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Earth, where we expect to be able to play games we pay to play.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

And that's assuming that the current housing problem is even a server issue -- that just sounds like another corporate evil theory from people who like to complain about stuff.

Whatever the real issue is, you guys just don't know. I haven't even been playing this game for a month and I can tell, it handles alot more server activity than your typical MMO would. I understand that many typical players wouldn't understand that type of thing, but the QQ is still a bit baffling.

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This is incorrect. Yoshida stated that if prices were closer to what they originally said they would be, the wealthy people would buy all the houses (even though each FC can only have 1), and everyone else would have to wait a long time to get one, even if they had the money. The obvious fix would be to add more houses, but he stated that they don't have the server capacity to do that.

I will repeat.

Yoshida said that they don't have the server capacity to give everyone a house. The lack of server capacity is not speculative, or based on assumptions. It is a fact.

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Originally Posted by Lingarn

Yoshida said that they don't have the server capacity to give everyone a house. The lack of server capacity is not speculative, or based on assumptions. It is a fact.

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Of course they don't. But I don't think every player expected to be given their own house. FC restrictions on buying a house don't mean much. If players could buy them, they'd work towards getting one.

You guys are assuming they don't have the server space to accommodate the housing spaces that already exist. Which is something I find unlikely, even given Square's fibbing history.

No server capacity for houses.

Joe has House B, lot F server 12. Here is the junk that's in it.
It's a call list of around 5kb max?

What are they doing? Live streaming the graphics?
Wards are copy and paste. Put up 500 wards. It's no different than handling open world or DF traffic. Sargatanas traffic nodes can handle Sargatanas Housing traffic nodes. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this no server capacity thing.

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Originally Posted by DawnCharis

Not a single plot of land bought in all 5 wards.

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Any FCs that will be buying a house have to increase their Rank to 6, which seems like it could take nearly a week at the current reported rates.

That said, I don't expect many houses to appear in the next month or two, at least not on Legacy worlds, because Yoshi-P's response basically said all Legacy world land prices will plummet ~70% to match world group #3 in March.

Problem with the housing is simple. Housing does not have any value, it's cosmetic item essentially. If different plots provided some sort of amazing benefits people would jump on it. However, most Free Companies do not even trust their leader and will not fork out the money. If you get kicked from the FC than you're out of cash. It maybe called FC housing but it's still tied to the leader and he decides on what happens with it.
Anyways, sorry dev team but housing is worth 0 money because it provides 0 benefits. You need to realize that people will pursue items that benefit them and housing has just no value.

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Originally Posted by Traek

While I think you are right, and its 95% chance this is the real issue, this is not what SE stated. People are just picking on the *FACTS* SE placed in front of them. Many are just calling Yoshida's B.S. Now if he had come out and said, "We don't have server capacity, and are delaying it further" people would then address the *FACTS* put in front of them there. The problem with speculating and assuming is, well, that they are speculations and assumptions. People don't just clamor behind those. Unfortunately for Yoshida, he chose something terrible to try and justify their decisions with.

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You are absolutely right, and I guess phrased it better than me. Just trying to get people to reorient their comments so maybe SE would be honest in the future. Tell me it's not ready. Tell me we released it but need to stress test it first. I'll be bummed, but I'll respect you and move on.

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Originally Posted by Roflcoptorz

All the talk about economy and RMT and how housing prices are high because of that IS A LIE. There may be a small amount of truth to it, but overall it is a lie/ extreme exaggeration which SE is using to hide the truth.
The Truth is FC housing IS NOT READY. By making the prices artificially high, they are ensuring the housing servers don't get swamped and crash. SE failed to stress test/ set up enough servers for every FC to have a house. So now they set an artificial barrier to prevent this from happening. It has nothing to do with economy or RMT. The content they released isn't ready. Remember launch? Except instead of not being able to log in, you aren't able to purchase a house.
Why you ask? Because instead of saying, sorry we missed another deadline, they can point the finger at someone else.

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I'm still in denial. Yoshi has usually been pretty honest and forthcoming with the issues he faces. But in this particular case his comments seem so far off the mark I'm ultra confused. Who replaced Yoshi with this liar who says RMT and economy, gil in circulation blah blah blah has anything to do with housing prices. All those things can be solved other, more palatable, ways than screwing 95% of every server pop out of getting an FC house. I just don't know who he thinks he's kidding. If the instance infrastructure is not ready just SAY SO. If patch 2.1 had to be delayed, SAY SO. If FC housing had to be pushed back to 2.2 then DO IT. Stop with this wall of text namby-pamby "we didn't want people to be unable to buy a house because they were all sold out so we made it so no one could buy a house" nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

I'm still in denial. Yoshi has usually been pretty honest and forthcoming with the issues he faces. But in this particular case his comments seem so far off the mark I'm ultra confused. Who replaced Yoshi with this liar who says RMT and economy, gil in circulation blah blah blah has anything to do with housing prices. All those things can be solved other, more palatable, ways than screwing 95% of every server pop out of getting an FC house. I just don't know who he thinks he's kidding. If the instance infrastructure is not ready just SAY SO. If patch 2.1 had to be delayed, SAY SO. If FC housing had to be pushed back to 2.2 then DO IT.

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Fact.
Yoshi-san, I look forward to your response. Like Queese said, I had been impressed with the openness and honesty you have given the player base in the past. But this... is ridiculous. Be honest and ur community will Continue to support you. Keep lying, and it will leave.

Its funny that they deleted the "Show us your FC house" thread full of cardboard boxes. Clearly they don't want to face reality.

I think at this point they are just hoping that people will let it go and it will blow over as intended. I personally expect this to be addressed and changed, and hope that SE can restore some of the good will towards it's customers.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

No server capacity for houses.

Joe has House B, lot F server 12. Here is the junk that's in it.
It's a call list of around 5kb max?

What are they doing? Live streaming the graphics?
Wards are copy and paste. Put up 500 wards. It's no different than handling open world or DF traffic. Sargatanas traffic nodes can handle Sargatanas Housing traffic nodes. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this no server capacity thing.

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That's probably because, like most things related to this type of thing, it isn't so simple.

Anyway thats enough with this convo for me. My FC currently seems to be pretty hype about getting together to afford something. It gives me something else to play for, and hell the rest of the content in this game feels easily accessible, I don't really see the point to get up in arms over this regardless of the stupid reasons.

In the grand scheme of things Housing was probably the smallest addition to the game as far as active content goes.

As for the Lying part...well I've long since removed any integrity Square Enix has had in my head. After XIII still getting games and FFXV still not having any news since E3 (despite the promise to talk more on it), I don't even assume Square Enix's figureheads are speaking out their own mouths anymore. The moment ARR got profitable they probably had some management shift. Square Enix loves copying modern trends with games.

I don't get it... couldn't they get around RMT and appease casuals (and even hardcores)... if they had tied housing to crafting? I mean building your house as fancy as you want with max level crafters is way cooler than it just being about stupid gil. (imo).

Make land fairly cheap, but you actually have to BUILD the house with crafting (that would take time and effort)...it would also be a great group effort and team building event.

They just missed the mark SO hard on this whole thing. Frankly, it scares me. The first steps beyond just re-doing content have been terrible.

If they wanted economic action, have materials craftable and sellable on the market that are consumed in the process (lumber... nails... glass (alchemy)... you name it). They could have gotten creative here...I want a big and beautiful tree- Anyone know a high level botanist?? (You get the idea)

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Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

Any FCs that will be buying a house have to increase their Rank to 6, which seems like it could take nearly a week at the current reported rates.

That said, I don't expect many houses to appear in the next month or two, at least not on Legacy worlds, because Yoshi-P's response basically said all Legacy world land prices will plummet ~70% to match world group #3 in March.

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An FC from Gilgamesh bought a medium lot/house. Looks awesome and on a hill. It looks pretty damn big on the inside.

Not sure if I can post a reddit link here, so I wont.

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Originally Posted by Lingarn

Earth, where we expect to be able to play games we pay to play.

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Um, okay. What?

Let me throw out a hypothetical here.

SE, at launch, anticipates 50,000 subscribers. So they obtain all necessary equipment that will be able to handle 50,000 players at any given moment. But when launch actually comes, they have 200,000 subscribers and they're all attempting to login. Come to find that because their equipment can only handle 50,000 players at a time, people will have trouble logging in.

If that's not a successful launch, I'm not sure what planet you're from, either. Sure it's a huge pain not being able to login, but that's a successful launch.

And that has to do with, as you said, lack of server capacity. Lack of server capacity has barely anything to do with a successful launch, if any at all.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

I don't get it... couldn't they get around RMT and appease casuals (and even hardcores)... if they had tied housing to crafting? I mean building your house as fancy as you want with max level crafters is way cooler than it just being about stupid gil. (imo).

Make land fairly cheap, but you actually have to BUILD the house with crafting (that would take time and effort)...it would also be a great group effort and team building event.

They just missed the mark SO hard on this whole thing. Frankly, it scares me. The first steps beyond just re-doing content have been terrible.

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I think that would have been an awesome idea. Right now crafter's do not have much of a market outside their own guilds for housing things... that would have made it epic and really a group experience.

FC Housing today.
http://blog.techmonkeys.co.uk/wp-con...mputer_med.jpg



FC Housing in 6-8 months.
http://dorkutopia.com/wp-content/upl...ngine-Room.jpg



We'll just have to be patient.

@Centershock

You make a valid point. The launch was very successful and it did overload the servers. They took a few weeks and got those servers upgraded and added additional servers to handle the load. SINCE that time, the game has lost active the high amount of persistent accounts logged into the game at one time through attrition (just like all MMOs do, I am not hating on the game, but that is the course of an MMOs Lifespan).

With that additional added server power for launch they should be able to handle housing demands. Since also at that time they bought additional servers they already had housing in the works and now they had a better understanding of how large the player base was.... Housing was not something they thought of last week and implemented. They had time to prepare for this when upgrading. If they failed to do that, which they may have than that was a horrible business move up there with misleading their customers in regards to pricing.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

Anyway thats enough with this convo for me. My FC currently seems to be pretty hype about getting together to afford something. It gives me something else to play for, and hell the rest of the content in this game feels easily accessible, I don't really see the point to get up in arms over this regardless of the stupid reasons.

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You're on the cheapest server, of course your FC is excited. You can actually afford housing.

You're on the cheapest server, of course you don't see a point in getting upset.

I am not trying to bash you personally, it's just that for those people on the cheaper servers, too many have posted in this thread saying they don't see why this is a big deal. Of course you don't see what the problem is if you're on a cheaper server.

Really, really take a look at the prices on Durandal. Then take a look at the prices on Balmung. Imagine those prices for your server and come back here and say that it's not a big deal. *bashheaddeskbrickwallomfg*

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Originally Posted by Iymala

@Centershock

*snip*

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Oh I totally agree, I also believe this was a mishap on SE's part. A part of me wants to believe that they did this (the outrageous pricing on plot deeds, not even the houses themselves) to lure out all the RMT accounts and gil spammers. Coincidentally, I was logged in for a few hours and NOT ONCE did I get a /tell from anyone trying to sell me gil and how they'd throw in extra as a part of their Christmas special.

Please note that I'm not trying to excuse their business decisions regarding FC housing. Honestly, the hype they brought on with FC housing got a lot of people with the perception that they'll be able to get it. I at least assumed there would be effort needed in order to get it, but a 20 million gil effort is just too exorbitant for a casual player like myself. I don't have the extra hours to put it like a lot of people can.

SE: "Housing is coming!"
Players: "Awesome!"
SE: "But you'll never get to experience it!"
Players: "Uh.. "

P.S: WILDSTAR has accessible housing and actually has an entire character class based solely on developing your house. Oh.. and their houses are on floating islands. GG.

Please make housing fun, not frustration.

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Originally Posted by Tazo

An FC from Gilgamesh bought a medium lot/house. Looks awesome and on a hill. It looks pretty damn big on the inside.
Not sure if I can post a reddit link here, so I wont.

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Nice! And dogs are allowed! :)
The screens are an imgur link, so here.
I think you could get 3 small house interiors just on one of those floors. Are adding floors an option for even small houses?

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

You're on the cheapest server, of course your FC is excited. You can actually afford housing.

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As far as I see, people cant decide if they're mad at the housing costs, or the "hidden motive" of SE to make it purposefully inaccessible because their servers will explode. Which i'm having a hard time believing, when they easily could have done a much better job by just limiting the amount of houses you can buy.

Server equipment doesn't come cheap and easy, and I don't think that, if the plots are all bought up in 3 months, SE will have added any extra servers to the ones already in use now. Me being on a cheap server, of course I don't think the costs are inaccessible for an active FC to afford. But that means they're accessible, and will eventually be in use when the patch isn't out for only 2 days time.

So, I'm not buying the whole "we want to save server stress" idea. It just doesn't make any sense to me. You can't buy more houses or set more decor than the instances servers allow you to create. It's already capped. So i'm just going to blame this issue on the costs and leave it at that. You guys are trying way too hard to make this a deeper issue. Yoshi's explanation makes sense, even if it's flawed.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

As far as I see, Yoshi's explanation makes sense, even if it's flawed.

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It makes sense? That's one of the funnier things I've read lately. The community is pissed because it doesn't make sense. At all. So we're left with really 2 opinions.
1. The dev staff is being honest. This means they really couldnt come up with a better answer. I choose to believe that the entire staff are not morons. The community came up with 5+ better ways to solve the problem in less than 1 day. If this was the best solution the dev team could field, they all deserve to be fired for incompetence.
2. What SE states is the problem, isn't the underlying issue. Again, if you generally accept that the dev team isn't full of morons, this is really the only choice.

I keep seeing people suggesting that the future workshop feature where you build airships and whatever else would be limited to large houses, but I don't recall seeing anything official about that. Anyone have a source?

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Originally Posted by Edellis

As far as I see, people cant decide if they're mad at the housing costs, or the "hidden motive" of SE to make it purposefully inaccessible because their servers will explode.

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I'm upset about the costs. Whatever the reasoning is, housing, a highly advertised and anticipated content, has been put out of my reach indefinitely due to the prices.

I'd be less upset if every server had the same astronomical costs (still disappointed, but less vocal). It's hard to keep a rational head when people on cheaper servers just keep saying that the whole thing is fine. Of course it's fine for them. It's not fine for me. Yeah, he's said that they will eventually re-evaluate the prices, but that doesn't help.

(cue the people who use the argument of me wanting content without work) <- pre-emptively silencing these people, I've saved every gil I could since open beta. I'd count that as working towards something, wouldn't you? And if housing (small plot mind you) was remotely available to me within a few weeks, or even a month and a half at most, again, I wouldn't be as upset.

The point is, they've advertised over and over the FC housing content. They gave a ballpark estimate (which, in hindsight they shouldn't have done) and made it seem like a good amount of FC's would be able to access housing. And now, they've walled this content off from all but the very, very few people that have enough gil to buy it. And those type of players are probably LESS likely to even want housing to begin with.

I'm unable to access content. The reasons for this are NOT because I'm not skilled enough, or haven't worked hard enough. The reason I'm unable to access housing is due to the actions of other players. (whether that be gil sellsers, gil buyers, legacy who exploited Atomos, legacy who exploited the initial marketplace after launch, merc groups that sold runs, etc.)

Yeah, I'm upset. And it is justified.

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Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

Any FCs that will be buying a house have to increase their Rank to 6, which seems like it could take nearly a week at the current reported rates.

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It doesn't take that long. One FC on Lamia already owns a very enormous house in Mist and our FC got about 80 percent of the way to Rank 6 in a single day. Money is still very much the issue though.

how many lots does one player need? wouldn't limiting the number of plots per individual player be easier?

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

I'm unable to access content. The reasons for this are NOT because I'm not skilled enough, or haven't worked hard enough. The reason I'm unable to access housing is due to the actions of other players. (whether that be gil sellsers, gil buyers, legacy who exploited Atomos, legacy who exploited the initial marketplace after launch, merc groups that sold runs, etc.)

Yeah, I'm upset. And it is justified.

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Isn't the reason you cannot afford the housing because you aren't skilled at making money and not working hard enough either for it?
I wouldn't say your reason is justified, already know quite a few people who have over 10m alone.
And they did work hard making that gil

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Originally Posted by 3motion

I wouldn't say your reason is justified, already know quite a few people who have over 10m alone.
And they did work hard making that gil

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I am sure they did, but they also, at least on Cactuar, charged astronomical prices for a long time for what they were making. Prices.... that a new 50 should not be able to legitimately afford based on the amount of gil entering the world via questing. They obtained illegal gil in almost every case from players who bought gil from RMT. Since within that first month before repair prices were fixed and mobs dropped more than 1 to 2 gil there was only so much gil entering the economy.

So yes house prices are screwed hugely from illicit activity from RMT regardless if they are holding tons of gil atm (which they are) but how much gil they put into the economy since launch from people buying it and spending it.

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Originally Posted by 3motion

Isn't the reason you cannot afford the housing because you aren't skilled at making money and not working hard enough either for it?
I wouldn't say your reason is justified, already know quite a few people who have over 10m alone.
And they did work hard making that gil

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Oh, you're right! My sincere apologies. Instead of playing an MMORPG to level my battle class, progress through the storyline, do quests, level my crafting classes and otherwise engage in the game mechanics, I should have been playing the market.

How silly of me! I thought we were playing an rpg, not an economics game. I've been playing wrong this whole time!!

Edit: Also, you're on Cerberus, the second cheapest set of servers. Have you seen the prices for Durandal yet? Or did you just skip over those?

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Originally Posted by Cichy

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Hold Up, Who actually liked this post geez. If people knew anything about the housing you wouldnt be talking that way.
1. They are gonna have bonus's at somepoint when crafting inside
2. Retainers(2.2 i think)
3. Underground Workshop to build airships and boats.
4. oh and not forget there claim "To have the best housing in MMORPG history" or
So there is alot to look forward to not everyone is into epic drops and combat
Remember as well we are all paying the same monthly price and this is not a pay to win game.only Rich FC can get into, gil in circulation by RMT assioates is more then 10% i hate to tell ya.game even allows for underground mining and gathering. No anti cheat protection for us to prevent this from happening.
**IDEA**
most bot apps dont run in fullscreen and something i seen in Infestation Survival Stories was that if you use alt+tab to switch to something the game will close out. I think this should be implemented.

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Originally Posted by odie

It doesn't take that long. One FC on Lamia already owns a very enormous house in Mist and our FC got about 80 percent of the way to Rank 6 in a single day. Money is still very much the issue though.

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Are people suddenly forgetting the fact that there is a HUGE difference in costs in plot deeds between servers?

In Lamia, the smallest plot on a first-class area starts at 8 million. In Balmung, the smallest plot on a first-class area is 25 million. Let's not even get into the bigger plots.

It may not take long for you, but it'll be astronomically longer for people in servers like Balmung, Excalibur, Gungnir, and Hyperion.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

This is FFXIV: ARR Producer/Director Naoki Yoshida.
Fundamental Pricing Stance[INDENT]Our fundamental stance toward housing prices was that we wanted to ensure that plots would be evenly distributed, avoiding a situation in which the wealthiest players could easily buy up all available plots of land. Please understand that while we will be adding servers and expanding housing areas as soon as we can, it is simply physically impossible for us to accomplish this easily, in a matter of one or two weeks.

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Really? This is the best you can come up with?


Here is what would have been a simple and easy solution, that would have made infinitely more sense:

Rather than having FC land plots cost and absurd amount of gil, which will then be directly removed from the servers, why can't we purchase it with this, so far, useless FC currency that we have sitting around collecting dust (which is already communally gathered)?

I currently run a fairly active FC of 150+ members, we keep, and have kept, up a FC buff every day since release (sure we may have missed 1 or 2 here or there). We currently have enough of this FC currency to have a NEW more expensive FC buff up EVERY DAY for OVER a year, notice the caps as they were on purpose. Now, that being said, the houses themselves, yes, those should be purchased with gil, as those are made by crafters.

But what about all the big FC's being the only ones able to get the large plots? SO WHAT? They are bigger, it makes more sense for them to have big plots. In fact, that should be a permit restriction, ie large plots only available to FCs with members of 150+, 200+, etc. Granted, that may not be 150+ active members, but I can say that my FC has 30-40 active members 24/7.

The point is, FC's already have more of this FC currency that they could ever use, and even if you added more for us to spend it on (which you haven't other than more buffs, big woop) we would still have an overabundance. This FC currency is already farmed jointly by the FC members, and we FC leaders don't have to beg our members for it.

I personally saved 90% of the gil I've gathered since re-release, while I watched other members frivelously squander their means only to have my face slapped by a producer that claims to want to build a strong gaming community. I will still continue to play, I will attempt at providing my FC with a home, I will still support this game (even after purchasing it no less than 3 times due to various misshaps on the part of SE and their sudden inability to release a quality product).

The answers are right there Yoshi, all you have to do is take that cotton our of your ears and listen. Your gamerbase is clamouring for you guys to succeed, but you all seem Hell bent on pushing us away. Is this perhaps SE's way of keeping their promises from 1.0 while at the same time committing MMO suicide? Seems like an awfully expensive way to keep a promise.

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Originally Posted by Centershock

Are people suddenly forgetting the fact that there is a HUGE difference in costs in plot deeds between servers?

In Lamia, the smallest plot on a first-class area starts at 8 million. In Balmung, the smallest plot on a first-class area is 25 million. Let's not even get into the bigger plots.

It may not take long for you, but it'll be astronomically longer for people in servers like Balmung, Excalibur, Gungnir, and Hyperion.

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No, they've been conveniently forgetting that since the first page ^^

All you have to do is play the game for a day and it becomes obvious that the RMT are all SE employees. Yoshi says he randomly plays with people, i believe him, i blacklist him everyday and the very next day or a few hours later he comes back as gfhdg fghdj it never stops. So they sell you gil that they just generate out of nowhere and then make housing prices so high you have 2 options: buy gil from Yoshi or pay real money to get a server change. Yoshi-P deceitful evil genius.

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

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Hey I've seen the prices and yes, I AM on Cerberus, the 2nd cheapest set of servers and yet my guild still is still missing several millions for a medium plot. So what? We're still working on it unlike you complaining about the prices.

The market is also part of the game, whetever you want to get into it is up to you. It just happens to be profitable everytime they release new stuff.

The thing is, people like you (probably) prioritize own progression way more than anything else.
Progressing seems much more worthwhile than donating gil to buy a house which isnt even yours, right?

Edit : Oh and I dont see a reason for the prices to be adjustet to your legacy server prices. I dont think I have to explain why.

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Originally Posted by 3motion

Isn't the reason you cannot afford the housing because you aren't skilled at making money and not working hard enough either for it?
I wouldn't say your reason is justified, already know quite a few people who have over 10m alone.
And they did work hard making that gil

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Too bad this is supposed to be a game and not WORK. Nice try.

A game doesn't mean everything gets handed out to you. Nice try