Healer design is still terrible and I'm tired of apologizing for it.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Addersgall also doesn’t have a damage ability tied to it that results in either a resource burn (Energy Drain) or a DPS loss (Misery). If they want to keep Misery on the Lilies, then they need to make it worth using the lilies to build for it. Right now, Misery is a huge DPS loss outside of generating it during downtime. Much like Addersting on SGE, and I have similar complaints about it and Toxikon.

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I was thinking about that recently and honestly i believe the core issue with those skills (ED excluded) is that they are technically AoE and not single target skills.
If misery is used on at least 2 mobs then its a DPS gain and same applies to toxicon however you do need to apply the shield during down time still. Which does come up in dungeons a lot but rarely does in trials and raids.
Buffing those AoE numbers would be a little too powerful so i kinda want them to introduce a strictly single target version of Misery that deals 1240 potency damage and a single target version of Toxicon (Eukrasian Toxicon anyone?) that deals 660 damage? would at least be DPS neutral.

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Originally Posted by RinaShinomiya

I was thinking about that recently and honestly i believe the core issue with those skills (ED excluded) is that they are technically AoE and not single target skills.
If misery is used on at least 2 mobs then its a DPS gain and same applies to toxicon however you do need to apply the shield during down time still. Which does come up in dungeons a lot but rarely does in trials and raids.
Buffing those AoE numbers would be a little too powerful so i kinda want them to introduce a strictly single target version of Misery that deals 1240 potency damage and a single target version of Toxicon (Eukrasian Toxicon anyone?) that deals 660 damage? would at least be DPS neutral.

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But that's just it. AOE has little to zero relevance in raid, so actions are weighted by their single target potency if there's no expressly single-target version.

Also I want to draw a comparison: Summoner, both pre- and post-EW rework, has a lot of non-discretionary AOE. However, some actions have, for example, a 50% (or 60%, etc) falloff when hitting multiple targets.

Now, post-rework summoner is certainly quite a bit weaker, but I think it's fair to say both versions have been plenty viable. So it's not exactly a new concept to SE.

I totally agree with the OP. There's a reason why AST is the most interesting healer... If I recall correctly, WHM and SCH's dps complexity came from managing more dps spells and watching more dots while AST happened to be the whole card "minigame". While cards have been (sadly) simplified, they are still quite some work to sort around, because requires your attention to what has been drawn and who's getting what.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I totally agree with the OP. There's a reason why AST is the most interesting healer...

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It's also the least played healer, by far.

https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/luckyban...f/0f046273.png

SGE "is less clunky SCH" or "SCH without making choices on DPS vs healing, it can have both".. given the frequent SCH complaints about AF on Energy Drain vs Heals and Dissipation..

And SGE has increased in popularity quite quickly.

The masses have spoken. They prefer their healers simple.

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Originally Posted by Halfgeeek

It's also the least played healer, by far.

https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/luckyban...f/0f046273.png

SGE "is less clunky SCH" or "SCH without making choices on DPS vs healing, it can have both".. given the frequent SCH complaints about AF on Energy Drain vs Heals and Dissipation..

And SGE has increased in popularity quite quickly.

The masses have spoken. They prefer their healers simple.

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Not to say you're wrong, but I'd like to chime in by saying that part of this could be from SGE being seen as fun.

AST... coming from an AST main... is not exactly "fun" right now. Busy, yes. But it has issues. Like Minor Arcana and Crown Play not being 1 button for instance!

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Originally Posted by Halfgeeek

It's also the least played healer, by far.

https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/luckyban...f/0f046273.png

SGE "is less clunky SCH" or "SCH without making choices on DPS vs healing, it can have both".. given the frequent SCH complaints about AF on Energy Drain vs Heals and Dissipation..

And SGE has increased in popularity quite quickly.

The masses have spoken. They prefer their healers simple.

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The big reason AST is so unpopular is because of how it was gutted not once, but TWICE over. Both past expansion reworks gutting it and screwing over its lore interaction with its class, pissing off a massive amount of casual players. It doesn't matter how strong it is because it is and will always be a pale shadow of its former self until the devs get their head out of their asses and realize all they needed to do was change balance to DHit and Spire to HP regen and old cards would've been fine. But no, we have to keep doubling down on this bullshit and unfun new system that the grand majority of former AST mains quit over.

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Originally Posted by Halfgeeek

It's also the least played healer, by far.

https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/luckyban...f/0f046273.png

SGE "is less clunky SCH" or "SCH without making choices on DPS vs healing, it can have both".. given the frequent SCH complaints about AF on Energy Drain vs Heals and Dissipation..

And SGE has increased in popularity quite quickly.

The masses have spoken. They prefer their healers simple.

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If people preferred their healers simple, they wouldn’t be asking for more to do on them. They want healers that aren’t clunky. Or that have cohesive kits. SCH has a kit that isn’t very cohesive and is extremely clunky at times. AST is busy but also kind of clunky with unnecessary button bloat and button presses with cards—and a lot of long-time AST mains are tired of the constant kit changes and mechanic changes surrounding the cards. WHM is too simple and has a subpar kit and job mechanic compared to the other three. By comparison, SGE is extremely smooth to play. Coming from someone who plays all four healers.

I finally see the light. 11111111111111 is such inspired, wonderful design now that a bunch of DPS mains who hate healers enjoy playing a lobotomized class in dumdum mode because they'd refuse to play it if it actually took thought.

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Originally Posted by Halfgeeek

The masses have spoken. They prefer their healers simple.

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I don't think it's "the masses" deciding that healers be simple, rather that the devs don't play healers, but Yoshida assured us that they play their own game while laughing at the developers of another, so I dunno...

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Originally Posted by Halfgeeek

The masses have spoken. They prefer their healers simple.

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Wait, what does this data even mean? Players that currently engage into that class or just a class that was leveled? Because this doesn't really tell much. The fact is that a good amount of people don't have strong opinions regarding class design, WHICH doesn't really mean they find it "simple = better'. Sage is popular because it is a new class.