I don't understand...

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Originally Posted by Cap75

So that's 8 dungeons minimum where they couldn't do their job?.... That also means they subjected 24 other people to thier play. People who I'm sure must have said something at points. Meaning this tank has likely ignored any advice to this point anyway.

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You don't have to do all that much for stuff before brayflox. Losing aggro all the time in dungeons before brayflox hardly ever led to a wipe. And even if other players complained, the tank could just muddle thru. Brayflox is the first real test. I know because I had to figure this out:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...r-geared-tanks

And even then it was more about surviving than aggro managment. As a GLA/PLD it is very hard to tell if you are handling aggro right or not, because it always seemed like you would lose aggro to level synced DPS before you get shield oath at level 40. See:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...arning-to-Tank

And even now with iLevel81 PLD, I still have aggro problems with bard and blms with top level gear. They will still peel stuff off at times:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rol-your-aggro

I had to learn to deal with all of this stuff, and I sought out advice. But you can't expect everyone to do that.

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Originally Posted by Darkwizud

Cap75...what server are u on? I'm looking for a solid PS4 community...when I say "solid" I mean ppl that actually play and communicate lol

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I can't tell you how many people actually play on PS4 on Behemoth but my FC is PS4 only for the sole reason of ease of communication. Party chat makes things much easier.

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Originally Posted by Foo01

And even then it was more about surviving than aggro managment. As a GLA/PLD it is very hard to tell if you are handling aggro right or not, because it always seemed like you would lose aggro to level synced DPS before you get shield oath at level 50. See:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...arning-to-Tank

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You get SO at 40. You have it in SV. And being a tank is always about aggro management. I don't care what your level is.

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Originally Posted by Cap75

You get SO at 40. You have it in SV. And being a tank is always about aggro management. I don't care what your level is.

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Yup that's why you mark, then as a pld, flash a lot. shield lob/flash x2 or 3 depending/fb>sb>roh/flash/fb>rb/flash/fb>sb>roh/repeat never had problems except when someone went crazy on a 2 or 3 target with single target attacks. That was without shield oath, shield oath has just made things so much easier. It takes a bit to get used to how much you need to flash with aoe heavy groups compared to the skill sets in other games but by SV you should definitely have it down. I have marking assigned to the extra buttons on my mouse so that the marks go up in half a second or so before the pull.

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Originally Posted by Cap75

You get SO at 40. You have it in SV. And being a tank is always about aggro management. I don't care what your level is.

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Yes typo, shield oath at 40. No it is not always about aggro management when you can not take the hits. There is no aggro to manage when there is no tank alive to manage it.

I've even had SMN put up topaz/titan to help and/or have the tank heal tank sometimes just to survive stuff. There are many ways to solve the problems. There is no specific narrow path that you need to follow like "always about aggro managemnet" or "always maximize dps" etc. This is not the elitist way, but this allows players to play together and get along and make things work.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

I had tanks do that as I was healing on my WHM, not so hard to fluid aura, sleep, save swiftcast for stoneskin, clutch heal/cc, or last hit damage and get it done with, use regen and small heals. If worse comes to worse I'd just kite tank the other adds while dpsing and healing.

Instead of sitting there doing nothing but whine hoping for the issue to magically resolve itself. God forbid the existence of ingenuity and situational awareness.

The expectations people have now compared to when MMO's first started is pretty hilarious. Duty Finder is not Major League Gaming and portions of the community take it to the comic book guy extremes by going to town on someone because they can't do what you believe should be standard which is elitist no matter how you want to spin it.

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Tanking poorly and letting your team members die (or having them be forced to pick up your slack) is frustrating when you're the tank. I get mad at myself whenever I mess up tanking and someone else dies because of it, or worse, the whole group wipes. For all you know, that tank wishes they could be doing better when they see monsters going off and attacking the healer; it's entirely possible that they simply don't know why and are too shy to ask for help due to fear of someone yelling at them. I've seen it happen before, heck, I've even been there a few times in various games.

Politeness and humbleness is something that should go both ways, and it's entirely possible to give friendly advice without coming across as a jerk. The fact that you don't seem to believe it's possible is a little confusing, honestly.

Not just a few days ago, I politely told a co-tank in Garuda (as close to exact wording as I can recall) "hey, in case you didn't know about it, you can step through her to avoid the Slipstreams. It can save a lot of damage. :)" and he was grateful for the information. In fact, if someone gets offended and cries elitism at that particular line of text, I'm going to state that they're being unreasonable. I can understand not accepting abusive or rude behavior, but it is entirely possible to give friendly/helpful advice, framed in a nonthreatening way. This is not a black-and-white issue.

It seems like you've just set up this straw-man version of an "elitist player" for yourself, and whenever anyone in this thread responds to you, you respond to your strawman rather than the (seemingly reasonable) people who are actually trying to share their point of view. If you're interested in fostering a constructive discussion, this isn't the best way to go about it.

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Originally Posted by Foo01

Yes typo, shield oath at 40. No it is not always about aggro management when you can not take the hits. There is no aggro to manage when there is no tank alive to manage it.

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If you can't take the hits one of the following things is happening:
1. You're under geared for the content your doing.
2. You don't know how to use your cool downs.
3. You're making bad pulls.
4. Your healer isn't healing you.

Point 4 is only one that's not in your control. The rest are decidedly your own fault. And if someone gets bent out of shape when a more experienced player comments on 1-3 then tanking is probably not for them.

PS and by comment obviously I mean give advice, not berate.

I joined a party finder for Garuda as a tank and pulled , they didn't wait for me to use my combo 5 times before attacking and so they pulled and died. Ha serves those elitists right, then they had the audacity to say mean things to me like I forgot my shield, please I know how to play my class so I told them all to shove it. By the way what is shield oath?

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Originally Posted by Cap75

If you can't take the hits one of the following things is happening:
...

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What can you do when they are undergeared then? Vote abandon? Sometimes that is the only option. But often the group can work around it. The cool downs can only handle so much and then they are on cool down. Bad pulls, I don't know how you can repeated do bad pulls on stuff like SV or less. If there are no speed runners the pulls are always the smallest allowed. The tank does need any more pressure from the peanut gallery. I'd rather have the group find a working solutions then try to dictate or order around the tank that is already under duress.

You can run ur rotation without even trying. Its gotten to the point where I watch TV and still throw out shadowflare, the trifecta, contagion, bane etc. . If u r not doing that, u may not know what ur doin. Cuz, most ppl are tome grinding and hav dine it a gazillion x.