Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamvng

The two extra FireIVs you get make the BlizzIV worth casting.

---

You'd think so, but it's not the case. B4, with the extra F4s included (e.g. you spend 8.4s seconds for a total 1196 potency) is worse in terms of potency per second than every other spell in our single target rotation except Fire 1. Now, it's still better than the REST of our spells - regaining mana with B3, T3, B4, F3 is superior to B3, T3, B1, F3 - but it is still bad compared to our powerhouses.

If you only ever needed to cast one spell between F3 and B3 you'd never want to use B4, and the math bears this out. Unfortunately I'm stuck posting on my phone and can't type out all the numbers easily (for some reason I can log into the lodestone on my PC but not the lodestone forums, something about a session key).

If Square wants us to B4 every cycle, they need to dramatically improve umbral hearts somehow. My idea is UI-style doubled cast speed along with the existing mana discount.

Would anyone be able to do the math on the PPS on the new rotation and the improvised 3.0 rotation kinda like this?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...42HxA/htmlview

I'll do something like this Dusk.
I'm actually working in it right now :)
(And guys, Lilyth knows her stuff xD His stuff? Well, you get it- the potencies do balance each other out. My concern was with the placement of bad Fouls in that methodology for 4.0. For 4.05, this is not going to be an issue)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ferrinus

snip

---

We can't just single out the PPS of Fire IV x 2 + Blizz IV like that. Because the Blizz IV also buys us the ability to do more Fire IVs in one rotation, meaning more Fire IVs for every other weak spell we have to cast like, F3, B3, F1. With a B4 cast, we're getting two additional F4s for every F3 B3 F1 we cast.

People have already done the math and discussed this in depth in past posts, but if you look at the F4 x 6 rotations compared to the F4 x 4 rotations as a whole instead, F4 x 4 PPS is only stronger because of Foul; but you cannot guarantee a Foul every rotation. This is especially true with the cast time nerf to 2.8s, as it'll be especially harder to get a Foul every rotation if you only do 4 x F4.

It's true that the difference is not huge, and B4 is still a weak spell on its own, but the difference is still there.

It's a wash, though. Without B4, you cast 6 powerful spells and three weak ones. With B4, you cast 8 powerful spells and 4 weak ones. That's assuming Foul; without it, B4 is always good.

You don't GIVE UP B4... you just do your best to minimize its usage. In 4.0 using it in your opener and every ~ninety seconds seems to do the trick. In 4.05 we'll probably use it more often because more frequent triplecasts and shorter cast times will require that we buy even more time. But that's B4's real utility: stockpiling Foul charge.

What I wonder is if it's better to only cast B4 when you have no other choice or if you want to use it preemptively at certain intervals. I suspect the latter but haven't really done math on the former.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galvuu

Snip

---

Yeah, fitting two fouls is gonna be tight even with the 4.05 rotation. But I believe the best way to do it is placing the first Foul on AF and the second on UI like normal. Thanks to the new Triplecast Cooldown, you'll always have either Sharpcast or Triple up for every AF cycle. Really, this is such a QoL change! Handling AF with be so much easier now. And really, the difference in both rotations is so small like you said that... ugh. Even flat out spamming fire is really close to the optimal way of playing. SE, ploxx! ;-;

And no problem! It's a pleasure to discuss a job I like so much with another enthusiastic. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ferrinus

I think what you're missing here is not that Foul is good, but that Blizzard 4 is bad.

---

I agree. Blizzard IV is terrible for what little it does. It makes your rotation a hell of a lot tighter and for what? A measly 1 PPS difference? It's still worth using it every time with the new 2.8 cast time but it hardly feels worth the trouble. If you have numbers suggesting the contrary, please do share them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lilyth

If you have numbers suggesting the contrary, please do share them.

---

The 2.8 cast time is a buff to BLM dps overall, but I don't think it changes the relative merits of the short rotation and the long rotation. Let me dig my numbers up:

F4, F4, F1, F4, F4, B3, T3, Foul, F3
Math: 2196 fire + 168 + 390 + 650 + 168 = 3572 potency, 23.7 seconds ---> 150.7 potency per second

F4, F4, F4, F1, F4, F4, F4, B3, T3, B4, Foul, F3
Math: 3132 fire + 168 + 390 + 650 + 260 + 168 = 4718 potency, 32.1 seconds ---> 146.98 potency per second

The short cycle is still more convenient and more damaging than the long cycle, so we only want to use the long cycle in order to guarantee more short cycles down the line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ferrinus

F4, F4, F1, F4, F4, B3, T3, Foul, F3
Math: 2196 fire + 168 + 390 + 650 + 168 = 3572 potency, 23.7 seconds ---> 150.7 potency per second

---

Thank you for the quick reply!

Over Topic: You can't place Foul in there. Like me and Galvuu have been discussing, by including Foul in the equation you're are automatically favoring the shorter rotation. In the sample you posted you are pretty much assuming you'll be casting Foul every rotation like it's part of it, and it is not. Foul is a bonus given every 30 seconds to any rotation you use as long as you keep enochian up and it won't favor the PPS of any rotation since you'll cast the same amount of Fouls in the end, no matter what. To sum it up, the 3.0 rotation (F4, F4, F1, F4, F4, B3, T3, Foul, F3) is shorter than 30 seconds, so Foul won't be there in every cycle meaning it's not part of it.

The real comparison does not account Foul and it shows why 4.0 is superior by ~ 1 PPS. 139,3057081 PPS (3.0) vs 140,1707923 PPS (4.0). I can post the whole math later if you wish (going to bed now).

On other news, Fire I cost has been reduced! Hopefully it'll be enough to end this torture of being at the mercy of the server mana tics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lilyth

Over Topic: You can't place Foul in there.

---

Ah, but I can given the assumption that you'll just execute as many short rotations as possible rather than the short rotation exclusively. Like I told you, this isn't about casting more Fouls, but about casting fewer Blizzard 4s. The way I see it, the new challenge of playing a black mage is figuring out how to cast the fewest B4s possible, or in other words figuring out how to do as many short rotations and as few long rotations possible.

My experience in 4.0 suggests that a B4 in your opener and a B4 every 90 seconds is sufficient, but I think we'll need a little more than that once the servers come back up because of the cast time decreases and more frequent triplecasts. I'll be surprised if it turns out that you have to B4 on every cycle, though; maybe every other, or one out of three.

I do WANT to B4 every cycle, because that makes the problem of where to place Foul more interesting to solve, but I think that'll take a substantial buff to umbral hearts specifically.

Mp cost of B4 is bering reduced,.. wish they reduced B3 mp cost instead...