Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's a consistent thing. I don't mean to single you out in particular and it may not even be intentional but...let's not beat around the bush, a significant number of your posts throughout the thread are you insisting that the status quo is fine. A trend, I note, that is alarmingly common with posters with female avatars. It isn't just about this thread, either. Any thread involving suggestions or issues related to male characters is usually subjected to people playing female characters emerging to downplay any and all concerns even when they're being voiced in a respectable and constructive manner.

It grows even more frustrating when there's threads involving hysteria and screeching from people playing female characters, such as the 2B outfit 'controversy', who are graced with an immediate response and an assurance from the development team that the issue will be reversed as soon as possible.

That's just touching on the surface, though. I've stated many times throughout this thread why I believe that male characters are treated as second class citizens. Something we'd best agree to disagree on, I suspect, rather than go through the same song and dance all over again.

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....so just because I have a Female Avatar, you think Im trying to downplay concerns over male avatar options?....Bloody REALLY!? C'mon man, whats with this crap?
I play a Male Hrothgar ALT, I actually haven't touched my Main Avatar in several weeks (besides for the weekly Gold Saucer Raffle) so I have and play both a Male and a Female character at length. This is just stupid.
All my post was talking about is how there is this Mentality that SE isn't addressing Male Viera because they want people to forget/grow disillusioned to it happening - thus they can get away with never doing it. That to me just needs to stop. Because it was addressed, and it was already stated that Male Viera are not completely off the Table. I dont wanna sit here and repeat myself, because based on the types of responses I get sometimes, I get the feeling that some of my posts just get ignored; like I get skimmed, and anytime I may try to say something rational, or even agree with the person, they sidestep it to yell at me and put words in my mouth.

The 2B butt situation is just as stupid, if not worse because it was addressed live. It didnt need to be, nor was it such an issue that needed all these threads and conversation, especially because it was an accident. Butt Im sure somebody is gonna talk my ear off (hypothetically speaking) on how they said that to save face.

I don't believe males are treated as such. The game just doesn't have an expansive amount of customization for males. This Facial hair, these tattoos, butt sliders that people egg on about, or a bulge slider. Its just not a thing. Maybe in the future we might see some of these things. But right now, its just not.
So besides the stupid 2B butt, what do female Avis have that males dont?
The bust slider?

There's most definitely a bias that exists. People have been asking for many things in relation to male characters over the years and yet in the rare circumstances where those requests are addressed it's usually in a dismissive manner. Viera men were outright stated to be 'weird' and I don't doubt that such played into the decision to pursue Hrothgar instead, even if it dressed up 'nicely' with the PR of it being a compromise. When people asked for a male version of the bunny outfit to be added the requests for it to be made conventionally attractive and suited to the male form (like something out of Magic Mike) were ignored in favour of it being a straight up copy of the female outfit. When requests for the stubble used in the promotional footage were made it was dismissed as 'too hard'.

When requests for access to outfits and hairstyles used by male antagonists were made, they were dismissed. Yet Yoshi-P enthusiastically pursued adding Edda's outfit which threw the excuse of 'not adding antagonist outfits' out of the window. When Minfilia's and Y'shtola's outfits were added to the Mog Station they came with their hairstyles. When Cid and Hien's outfits were added to the Mog Station...they didn't, even though the threads requesting them highlighted such desires.

It's a lot of little things that add up over time - and it isn't even that there's a small amount of people playing male characters in this game since the overall population is a pretty even split. Many other games have proven that plenty of people play male characters and actively buy outfits and stuff for their male characters - so the financial argument doesn't really stand when it comes to FFXIV.

All of which has been pointed out already throughout the thread, of course - and as stated earlier, I'm not really interested in going through the exact same song and dance that exists. As I said, it's a trend for concerns for issues related to male characters to be downplayed and such makes up the bulk of some posters' post history within this thread. I'm not going to stay silent on the matter because it's quite honestly reaching a point where I'm growing tired of how much 'waifu' pandering there is within this game in general. It's only gotten worse over time.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I only really see it in their legs tbh, but the similarities are there I guess. It was just masked well enough in my opinion. Female Viera also share a body/skeleton with female elezen, with some alterations obviously.

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I believe vieras are just bigger midlanders
but its pretty much what they have been doing with most the races
they have a base and build around it Hrothgar and Viera are no different only real unique ones are Au ra

but to say its lazy is a bit much,its really not as simple as copy paste a roegadyn and stretch it into a lion man there is way more to it.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

I believe vieras are just bigger midlanders
but its pretty much what they have been doing with most the races
they have a base and build around it Hrothgar and Viera are no different only real unique ones are Au ra

but to say its lazy is a bit much,its really not as simple as copy paste a roegadyn and stretch it into a lion man there is way more to it.

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It probably saved them some time and resources, but I wouldn't call it lazy either. Smart? Probably, yeah. It definitely wasn't as simple as <insert skeleton here>, they had to create a model to go with that skeleton, not to mention alter the skeleton just a tad to give Hrothgar a hunch. I'm no expert in programming, but I know that much. Something can use the same skeleton but use an altered model. I saw it all the time in WoW with the 23910245125125 drake mounts as one example.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

And nobody is even trying to silence you. For some reason you just have a hatred of people with an opposite Opinion.

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Nope. They can go on about this all day if they want to. I don't care! Truly. I just don't happen to agree with some of their opinions, and since they are posting on a public forum for all to see, I can tell them why. It's nothing personal though. That's just how it goes sometimes living with the rest of the human race. People will not always agree with each other.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

There's most definitely a bias that exists.

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honestly this is pretty much most games that have customization
but with FF14 i at least feel they listen you know.
sure it might seem hard to believe when we get female cash shop item one after another (i think that's more a bad thing for female characters while male players can save a buck)
but they also said they are working on the stubble for midlanders and converting alot of clothes for both genders.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

I believe vieras are just bigger midlanders
but its pretty much what they have been doing with most the races
they have a base and build around it Hrothgar and Viera are no different only real unique ones are Au ra

but to say its lazy is a bit much,its really not as simple as copy paste a roegadyn and stretch it into a lion man there is way more to it.

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They did the same with Aura female using Miqote bodies, male Elezen for male Aura. I hazard female Midlander bodies were used for female Viera, point being, they have never had issue with reusing assets before, why believe it would be different now?

Make no mistake, i truly do dislike Hrothgar, vehemently so, i felt then as i do now, they don't belong here and were a waste of time. If i wanted their ilk, i would have stayed in WoW. That being said, they need to be fixed.

It's not fair to the player base that chooses to play them to have to pay for a fantasia to change basic looks (hair style/ color options), nor is it fair that there is only limited head ware available to them. The fact that real money/ time is used to buy/ earn some of these items is not just a Viera issue, it is one that needs correction immediately.

The same goes for the missing genders. I never wanted Female Hrothgar... but we need them. A race being gender locked is unacceptable by all metrics, not in a game where among the first changed in 2.0 ARR was the introduction of Male Miqote, Female Highlander, and Female Roegadyn. We came to expect a certain level of polish from SE when we stuck around during 1.0, 2.0 showed us that they took that seriously, this offering? This was proof of being taken for granted again.

The genders need to be completed, both the Female Hrothgar and the Male Viera, all gear needs to work with them or the mog station price for fantasia and glamour gear needs to be reduced, after all, if it can't be used by all races, characters, and retainers/ squadron members, why should you pay full price for a Limited option?

I understand i don't have to like something to champion it's inclusion, i can be a fan of a company and still call them out on what i perceive as lazy.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

but they also said they are working on the stubble for midlanders and converting alot of clothes for both genders.

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Have they commented on the subject of stubble recently? Last I heard, they weren't going ahead with it because it would be 'too hard'. As for clothing being unlocked for both genders, as someone who is into guys and prefers masculine/handsome men that does nothing for me as I don't have any interest in kitting out my character in a dress quite obviously designed with the female model in mind. It's a bit of a controversial subject so I won't touch on it too much but it's just another way in which people who want more masculine options for male characters are forced to sit in the queue and feel like second class citizens. Especially when the development team decided to put more effort into the outfits worn by female NPC's compared to those worn by male NPC's.

Hien's outfit looks very low texture compared to Lyse's and Yotsuyu's outfit. Alma had a unique outfit but her brother, Ramza, did not - her outfit is on the Mog Station, his isn't - but it shouldn't be anyway because it's just an existing dungeon set tweaked for his character model. Again, it's all the little things that add up and bring about a frustrating situation.

I enjoy the game for the most part, though when it comes to some aspects it's lagging behind quite a bit. Particularly when it comes to elements such as options for male characters (particularly the sort that will appeal to the typical guy/fan of the male form) and also with elements like player housing. That bit isn't really relevant to this thread, though it's still a key issue.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

only real unique ones are Au ra

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I have bad news for you.
Hrothgar and Roe share one base model.
Huyr, Miqo'te, Elezen, Au Ra, Viera share one base model.
The only unique one is Lalafell model.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Luckily that actually is the only answer we actually need. They don't ever have the resources to do anything. So male viera is a no.

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I was just making a joke.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/4cUCFvwICarHq/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Luckily that actually is the only answer we actually need. They don't ever have the resources to do anything. So male viera is a no.

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Except for m'booty. Good thing ffxivbootybackup was still in the githubs amirite.

On that note, some of you all aren't able to connect the dots with the current discriminate choices SE is making these days. Whether we're here for male viera or not that at least should be basic knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Hrothgar do share the Roegadyn body only difference is just textures and the pose
they look better because Hrothgar don't have textures from 10 years ago

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Nope, they have different proportions.

To put it in perspective, there are 3 body types in this game.
You got the tots, the midlanders and the roe.
That's it. Every-other-race is a modified version of 1 of them that looks different because of proportions.

Elezen? Catz? Highlanders? Dragos? Modified Mid body. Viera? Modified Mid body made to mirror the settings for elezen in some respect which again, is a modified mid bod.
So really it doesn't matter if they were built on the backs of the roe base, their proportions and general body shape are so much more appealing and improved that it boggles my mind how anyone could care when that's legit how every new race is made.

Hrothgar would have likely appealed to me much more if they were based off of Highlander proportions instead of Roegadyn proportions. At least that way they'd resemble Kimahri much more - who is supposedly the inspiration behind them in the first place...

The development team can't please everybody, of course, but they still chose to prioritise a niche where male characters are concerned whilst adding yet another 'waifu fantasy' for those who play female characters. Even that didn't really play out as intended since both ended up rather limited in some ways.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Hrothgar would have likely appealed to me much more if they were based off of Highlander proportions instead of Roegadyn proportions. At least that way they'd resemble Kimahri much more - who is supposedly the inspiration behind them in the first place...

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tbh the only thing that really sets the gap between Hrothgars and Kimahri is their hunched back and maybe their poses a bit. Aside this their proportions are quite good - and I don't even like the race, so it's barely a bias.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Hrothgar do share the Roegadyn body only difference is just textures and the pose
they look better because Hrothgar don't have textures from 10 years ago

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Not true at all. The Hrothgar torso is much more narrow than Roe.

the fact tat the new event helm doesnt work with Viera shows how rushed and unfinished the new races really are. Kinda sad

Most of the headgear that was included in the Shadowbringers launch content isn't compatible with Viera and Hrothgar, but this is the breaking point? I don't get it.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Most of the headgear that was included in the Shadowbringers launch content isn't compatible with Viera and Hrothgar, but this is the breaking point? I don't get it.

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It's not a good sign. Whether it's the breaking point for any given player, well...chances are it isn't going to be the only thing related to the gender lock that they're frustrated with.

Viera and Hrothgar were added in 5.0 - we're now roughly a month and a half away from 5.2. I imagine a lot of people were willing to be patient in regards to the backlog of headgear from older content - but when new headgear is also suffering from the same problem then that has some pretty unfortunate implications. For starters, it means that the development team are struggling with that much they're unlikely to get around to adding the missing genders anytime soon. It also means that potential work on updating/expanding the existing character customisation would also be put on the back-burner if it were even planned in the first place.

Add to that the simple fact that the game's biggest rival is updating its character models/customisation options for a second time and...well...

It's not all that unreasonable for people to be frustrated when it comes to FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Add to that the simple fact that the game's biggest rival is updating its character models/customisation options for a second time and...well...

It's not all that unreasonable for people to be frustrated when it comes to FFXIV.

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While I'm not going to argue most of your post (I share most of the frustrations about the incomplete races, I'm just less vocally upset about it), I do feel compelled to point out that WoW has been out for 15 years, while ARR has been out for about six and a half. Saying that they've updated models twice without also mentioning that it's been around more than twice as long is disingenuous.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Not true at all. The Hrothgar torso is much more narrow than Roe.

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it is true
even though Elezen have terrible proportions they still share the "mid lander" body
Hrothgar gear is catagorize with the Roes
youll even notice when you wear some stuff Hrothgar will get bigger for some reason

this decade will be the decade we get male viera and female hrothgar

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Originally Posted by Duskane

it is true
even though Elezen have terrible proportions they still share the "mid lander" body
Hrothgar gear is catagorize with the Roes
youll even notice when you wear some stuff Hrothgar will get bigger for some reason

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I'm gonna direct you to my other reply.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Nope, they have different proportions.

To put it in perspective, there are 3 body types in this game.
You got the tots, the midlanders and the roe.
That's it. Every-other-race is a modified version of 1 of them that looks different because of proportions.

Elezen? Catz? Highlanders? Dragos? Modified Mid body. Viera? Modified Mid body made to mirror the settings for elezen in some respect which again, is a modified mid bod.
So really it doesn't matter if they were built on the backs of the roe base, their proportions and general body shape are so much more appealing and improved that it boggles my mind how anyone could care when that's legit how every new race is made.

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If you look at this and this and only see a difference in texture then please tell me.

If you're just saying that their bods are based in roe then I ask wuts your point, that's how every race works.

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

this decade will be the decade we get male viera and female hrothgar

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Yeah, but is this the decade they get hats or hair?!

+1 for short athletic bunny men!
I'd like them to be similar to Drow men. (Except of course the social oppression from female counterparts.)

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20051218172114
Comparison of heights; from left to right: a human, sun elf, wood elf, moon elf, drow, and wild elf.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20090526075945
Various elves; from left to right; Drow, wild elf, sun elf, wood elf, and moon elf.

Some similarities to Male Viera:

In many ways, the drow resembled eladrin and elves. Their bodies were wiry and athletic, while their faces were chiseled and attractive.

Height and Weight

Drow were shorter and thinner than other sub-races of elves.
It was believed that females were generally bigger and stronger than males, but both sexes varied in height between 4′7″ (140 cm) and 5′5″ (165 cm), averaging 5′ (152 cm).
Males weighed between 87 to 157 pounds (39-71 kg), averaging 109.5 pounds (50 kg); females were a bit lighter and weighed between 82 to 152 pounds (37-69 kg), averaging 104.5 pounds (47 kg).

Hair

Generally, the drow kept their hair long, and decorated it with pins and webbing made of precious metals.
Drow hair could be stark white, pale yellow and, more rarely, silver or copper in color.
Due to the Eilistraeen ritual of The Run, drow of other faiths would often say that silver hair was a sign of mental handicap.
Drow hair thinned and changed color with age, turning pale yellow in women, and silver or grey in men.

Intelligence

Drow were intelligent even when compared to other sentient creatures.
This was due to selective breeding over several generations and to the necessity of being analytical and observant at all times to survive in their society.
However, the drow were not wiser than other races.
Their upbringing in secluded societies, with little contact with the outside, as well as the indoctrination of Lolth's dogma, made them close-minded.

Physical Abilities

Drow were more agile and alluring than most humanoid races. This was not a coincidence but the result of selective breeding over several generations.

Like all elves, drow required no sleep. They instead entered a meditative trance while retaining full awareness of their surroundings.
This state was half-again as efficient as the way most races gained rest

Martial and Stealthy Abilities

Male drow were competent fighters. Drow fighters often devoted themselves to Lolth for an easier life by becoming blackguards and/or divine champions.
Even though males could become divine champions, such an achievement would bring the ire of the priestesses on them, and therefore death.

The drow had a fascination with stealth and subtlety, and specific training was available for their rogues. Bardic magic wasn’t very common, but it was appreciated and taught in bardic colleges. Rangers were valued scouts.

Due to the drow's fascination with stealth, (in)famous assassin schools that doubled as assassins' guilds existed. Another route for rogues was to devote themselves to Lolth and become divine seekers.

This is an example of a true "good Drow" who is also a fabled hero of the North, Drizzt.
He's a bit large in comparison to other males(5'4) but he's also more of the stealthy "warrior" type.
I personally think he looks awesome.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20171222032833

An illustration of femdom relations within the race.
Similar to Viera, the females are physically stronger and more of the warrior types, while the males are stealthy assassins.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20181003144633

For further reading:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Drow

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Originally Posted by Mugear_bahamut

+1 for short athletic bunny men!
I'd like them to be similar to Drow men. (Except of course the social oppression from female counterparts.)

Drow were shorter and thinner than other sub-races of elves.
It was believed that females were generally bigger and stronger than males, but both sexes varied in height between 4′7″ (140 cm) and 5′5″ (165 cm), averaging 5′ (152 cm).
Males weighed between 87 to 157 pounds (39-71 kg), averaging 109.5 pounds (50 kg); females were a bit lighter and weighed between 82 to 152 pounds (37-69 kg), averaging 104.5 pounds (47 kg).

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4'7 - 5'5. So the female au ra treatment. I like the joke.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

4'7 - 5'5. So the female au ra treatment. I like the joke.

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Why does personal preference automatically become a joke to you? That is the real joke.
I'm personally aiming for this, though:

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...d8c88b1954.png

Male Viera about the size of Female Midlander.

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Originally Posted by Mugear_bahamut

Why does personal preference automatically become a joke to you? That is the real joke.
I'm personally aiming for this, though:

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...d8c88b1954.png

Male Viera about the size of Female Midlander.

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You need to crop that viera next to a female au ra, because that's what your past post referenced.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

You need to crop that viera next to a female au ra, because that's what your past post referenced.

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"Similar". smh All my posts refer to 155.5~168.1. This crop is actually a repost from months ago, just so you know.

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Originally Posted by Mugear_bahamut

"Similar". smh All my posts refer to 155.5~168.1. This crop is actually a repost from months ago, just so you know.

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Are you acting like I actually read any of your past posts? I barely remember the usernames of 90% of the people on this board. I saw this - which is more the size of female au ra.

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Originally Posted by Mugear_bahamut

I'd like them to be similar to Drow men. (Except of course the social oppression from female counterparts.)

Drow were shorter and thinner than other sub-races of elves.
It was believed that females were generally bigger and stronger than males, but both sexes varied in height between 4′7″ (140 cm) and 5′5″ (165 cm), averaging 5′ (152 cm).
Males weighed between 87 to 157 pounds (39-71 kg), averaging 109.5 pounds (50 kg); females were a bit lighter and weighed between 82 to 152 pounds (37-69 kg), averaging 104.5 pounds (47 kg).

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Don't know why you seem to be hiding baby man desires. You should have never brought up drow men in the first place and just reposted the crop to begin with.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Don't know why you seem to be hiding baby man desires. You should have never brought up drow men in the first place and just reposted the crop to begin with.

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Whoa there! Are people not allowed to post aesthetics they like in the forums anymore? I wasn't well aware.
You see I just copy pasted what was in the wiki. I love the Drow setting, and I just projected their similarities to Viera.
Maybe you should calm down about these so called "baby man desires". lmao

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Originally Posted by Mugear_bahamut

Whoa there! Are people not allowed to post aesthetics they like in the forums anymore? I wasn't well aware.
You see I just copy pasted what was in the wiki. I love the Drow setting, and I just projected their similarities to Viera.
Maybe you should calm down about these so called "baby man desires". lmao

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Calm down? I better start posting even more emoticons or gifs, because apparently that is the only way anyone understands a joke. :rolleyes:

I just thought your post was funny, because at that size they would be pretty much equivalent to the au ra gender differences, and a lot of people in this thread go on and on about that.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I just thought your post was funny, because at that size they would be pretty much equivalent to the au ra gender differences, and a lot of people in this thread go on and on about that.

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In fairness, I wasn't sure what you were getting at until this post here either. Maybe I'm just tired :P

Personally the height difference by itself isn't what I don't like about the Au Ra. It's the fact that it seems darn near impossible to make a fem au ra that's anything but small petite and pretty. They're not just way shorter, they have a totally different sort of body shape, they carry themselves completely differently, and every part of them is smaller except maybe the head. Even the horns are smaller and prettier. They're too different, in too many ways, imo. I like fem au ra, but man. I'd love if I could make one that's not so darn pretty. One that actually looks fierce without also looking angry all the time.

I mean, it'd be totally possible to have a big height difference and have the male Viera look every bit as fierce/warrior like as they're supposed to be... and without making them look like they're barely the same race... but I'm not sure how well SE would pull that off tbh, even if they wanted to.

Personally I'd like to see them be the same height as fem Viera. Maybe a few cm shorter at min, but I personally don't want a wild height difference at all. Give me a tall boy that doesn't look bulky or ungodly awkward. Let them be nearly as pretty (handsome?) as the fem Viera - without the ridiculously painful looking idle hand clenching of the male Miqo'te. If they go along those lines, and if SE sorts out the hair and hats, I might even play one.

*pokes head head round* This still going on?

I would prefer if male Viera were about the same height as their female counterpart and also muscular but beautiful. I was really disappointed with Au Ra because of the extreme height difference. At first I wanted to play a female Au Ra because I really liked their concept art but was let down when they showed the finished race during the liveletter. Hope this won't happen this time again.

Yeah, I don't want there to be a weird or extreme height difference either. I want them to be the same height or taller than their female counterparts with handsome features and an athletic physique.

Well-built and handsome is far more appealing overall, so I'd rather not see viera men hijacked to appease a niche concept.

Indeed - they can toy with the extent of the height difference the height slider allows, rather than making them short as a rule.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I do feel compelled to point out that WoW has been out for 15 years, while ARR has been out for about six and a half. Saying that they've updated models twice without also mentioning that it's been around more than twice as long is disingenuous.

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Ive made this point, somehow it means you are discrediting someone, and just shutting down conversation.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Ive made this point, somehow it means you are discrediting someone, and just shutting down conversation.

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That isn't what happened and conveniently ignores the whole suggestion to agree to disagree on specific points of, well, disagreement.

At any rate, it doesn't particularly matter to me that WoW has been around for longer - FFXIV isn't exactly a fresh game and has had requests for expanded character customisation right from the very start. Blizzard took feedback into account and actively worked to fix issues with character models. FFXIV chooses to ignore them, even when there's glaring flaws - such as the lack of eyebrows for Highlander men.

Opting to add two new races, which are gender locked and can't use helmets is something quite worthy of eyebrow raising. Especially when the only reason Viera were a popular request in the first place was due to a lot of people wanting to specifically play bunny men and see what they were like once and for all. Very few of the official PR statements even make sense under scrutiny, either. Hrothgar are justified as something 'new' and 'different' but Viera don't really qualify as that since they're just another case of 'waifu bait' and any elements of them that were different (such as having clawed feet/hands and a tail) were removed during the transition from FFXII to FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

That isn't what happened and conveniently ignores the whole suggestion to agree to disagree on specific points of, well, disagreement.

At any rate, it doesn't particularly matter to me that WoW has been around for longer - FFXIV isn't exactly a fresh game and has had requests for expanded character customisation right from the very start. Blizzard took feedback into account and actively worked to fix issues with character models. FFXIV chooses to ignore them, even when there's glaring flaws - such as the lack of eyebrows for Highlander men.

Opting to add two new races, which are gender locked and can't use helmets is something quite worthy of eyebrow raising. Especially when the only reason Viera were a popular request in the first place was due to a lot of people wanting to specifically play bunny men and see what they were like once and for all. Very few of the official PR statements even make sense under scrutiny, either. Hrothgar are justified as something 'new' and 'different' but Viera don't really qualify as that since they're just another case of 'waifu bait' and any elements of them that were different (such as having clawed feet/hands and a tail) were removed during the transition from FFXII to FFXIV.

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It doesn't ignore anything, its a simple fact and statement that 1 game has been around much longer then the other. Somehow a simple fact ignores points and opinions.
I could make a soft bet that if FFXIV has been around as long it would have more customization options.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

That isn't what happened and conveniently ignores the whole suggestion to agree to disagree on specific points of, well, disagreement.

At any rate, it doesn't particularly matter to me that WoW has been around for longer - FFXIV isn't exactly a fresh game and has had requests for expanded character customisation right from the very start. Blizzard took feedback into account and actively worked to fix issues with character models. FFXIV chooses to ignore them, even when there's glaring flaws - such as the lack of eyebrows for Highlander men.

Opting to add two new races, which are gender locked and can't use helmets is something quite worthy of eyebrow raising. Especially when the only reason Viera were a popular request in the first place was due to a lot of people wanting to specifically play bunny men and see what they were like once and for all. Very few of the official PR statements even make sense under scrutiny, either. Hrothgar are justified as something 'new' and 'different' but Viera don't really qualify as that since they're just another case of 'waifu bait' and any elements of them that were different (such as having clawed feet/hands and a tail) were removed during the transition from FFXII to FFXIV.

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To be fair, it took blizzard a decade to update the character models, and 15 years to decide to expand the character customization.

The problem with FFXIV is that big daddy SE isn't giving the game that's keeping them afloat enough money and manpower to improve on any of these things. We could have easily had fully fledged Hrothgar and Viera if SE wasn't so tight with the purse strings.