What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

Well, like I said, it's not something I figured would happen within the game's lifetime. At best, I suspect the 13th will be joined either with the Source or the First somehow. I don't see the point in restoring it unless there's a way to reverse being a voidsent, otherwise Cylva and Unukalhai are the only survivors and both are conveniently on the First.

Supposedly, a partial rejoining of the First was on the table at one point. I doubt it'd happen now for gameplay reasons, but Norvrandt had such a dwindling population if there were a way to teleport them to the Source it could've worked except for the issue of Black Rose.

The shards definitely aren't a cut apple, were that true then rejoinings and soul mergers wouldn't be possible. I believe Lauront said that Oda has already referred to the situation as being unnatural and nature tends to correct itself when it can, it just couldn't due to Hydaelyn.

Regardless, it's my headcanon. :P I posted it not thinking there was any evidence to back it up only for someone to say it's supposedly possible due to dialog from the Studium quests (that I haven't done). I mean, if we're not going to get an AU then, for me, it's the next best thing. I understand why it'd sit ill with others though, which is probably why it'll end up in the "come up with your own theory" pile short of the MSQ doing something to make it impossible. They already ruined my headcanon that Azem was the one who saved Emet from being sundered (without knowing the future). :(

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I’d rather eventually the world come together again at some point in the distant future rather than staying incomplete and fractured due to one crazy persons mistake. It seems weird to just keep everything broken and unnatural.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

No. That's you not reading properly. What I said was that the writers ATTEMPTED to create a gray morality and failed at it.

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Is it truly that? Or are you just going back and trying to select one of your several different narratives that could be used as a suitable counter to what I said?

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Your entire problem here is that you seem to have the belief "if the themes are bad, then they weren't in the story."

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You are really reaching on that one.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

And here's the part where you were flat out wrong.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Or rather, they tried

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Also, why would you say that my statement is "flat out wrong" only to immediately concede in your next sentence that they weren't at that level? Why contradict yourself like that?

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I’d rather eventually the world come together again at some point in the distant future rather than staying incomplete and fractured due to one crazy persons mistake. It seems weird to just keep everything broken and unnatural.

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Wouldn't that still cause untold destruction regardless of the cause? At this point I'm decently sure that things coming back together at any point would be far more destructive than the Sundering.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I’d rather eventually the world come together again at some point in the distant future rather than staying incomplete and fractured due to one crazy persons mistake. It seems weird to just keep everything broken and unnatural.

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Same here. And as for the Oda quote, it's the below:

https://i.imgur.com/9OjEv4k.png

Given how quickly repercussions from Zodiark's demise are being felt, I'd be really surprised if nothing ill came of Hydaelyn's absence as well.

I'm kind of expecting that bringing stability to the world is going to be a focal point of the next story arc, though perhaps not immediately and that the "other purpose" for the moon and its reflections is going to play into that somehow.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

You were wrong, because as I stated (and was later proven), the writers did indeed put the exact themes I said they did into the game. Again, just because they did the themes BADLY does not mean the themes were not there. There's nothing to speculate on. The attempt to make the story morally grey was made, as I said it was, and they failed to do it properly, just like I said they did.

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Lol, no you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. "IMO, I don't think the writers were anywhere near the level of elaboration as you make it out to be. We can speculate about whether the writers truly sought to address things like morality, paradise, despair, etc." Did you really interpret that as me saying that those themes were completely absent from the game? I'm just saying that they're not anywhere near the level of elaboration as you make it out to be. I even gave you some credit when I entertained your non-sequitur by saying: "Sure, it could've been an effort to paint the ancients as morally grey, and "I mean, sure, it's definitely a possibility." There are certain things that I don't agree are morally grey like the ancients choice of returning to the star and their experimentation on living creatures, but that's not me saying that moral greyness is completely absent from this game. Venat performing the sundering is a moral grey area for me.

For some reason you took my skepticism about moral greyness regarding certain parts of the game as me saying that there isn't ANY moral greyness in this game.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

This entire argument is simply because you were seemed to believe that just because themes are bad then that makes them not elaborate.

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You mean it's because I believe that they weren't well elaborated on. Like I said: I don't think the writers were anywhere near the level of elaboration as you make it out to be. Whether the theme is "bad" or not makes no difference to me. You might feel that some themes are apparent in some areas, but I disagree.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

Wouldn't that still cause untold destruction regardless of the cause? At this point I'm decently sure that things coming back together at any point would be far more destructive than the Sundering.

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One of the big problems with the sundering is that the longer it continues, the more death it causes. We went from no deaths to illness or age(as far as we know) to now everything has a limited lifespan and can die easily from illness, and that isn’t even getting into all of the wars. Multiply that by however many shards are left and, yeah that’s a lot of death going on on a daily basis due to the sundering, in the long run the rejoining would prevent more death.

Look, it's not hard. You said:

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Again, just because they did the themes BADLY does not mean the themes were not there.

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I clearly made no mention that they weren't there. That's just you putting words in my mouth. I'll say it again: I'm just saying that they're not anywhere near the level of elaboration as you make it out to be. That's way different than saying "just because they did the themes BADLY does not mean the themes were not there."

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

I am not saying that I personally found the points made about the Ascians to be morally grey.

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You're right. You didn't say that. In fact nobody did. This is a textbook example of a red herring. Why resort to that? Why be disingenuous?


Also you say "so yet again, it seems you are finally agreeing with what I said from the beginning." If you say that I'm agreeing with you then that gives legitimacy to my previous statement that "I don't think the writers were anywhere near the level of elaboration as you make it out to be" because I have not changed my stance.


But, I'm done here. Everything I bring up, you're just going to go back and try to say that what I meant was different or what you meant was different or you'll just resort to using a logical fallacy. Have a good day.

As stated, the sundering is already responsible for the deaths of trillions. Even if the remaining ones were combined right now it wouldn't come close. I often wonder of the two who has the higher death count, Venat or Meteion.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I’d rather eventually the world come together again at some point in the distant future rather than staying incomplete and fractured due to one crazy persons mistake. It seems weird to just keep everything broken and unnatural.

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Words cannot express how much I hate the concept of the sundering. I was "the world and everyone on it is incomplete" before we heard that from Emet and firmly #TeamRejoin until I started getting Hell for it. It wasn't even a mistake, it was deliberate and our WoLs exist as a consequence of this crime against mankind but, sure, make us BFFs with Venat because that makes total sense. -_-

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Originally Posted by Lauront

And as for the Oda quote, it's the below:

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Interesting, so that was as recent as 5.0.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

One of the big problems with the sundering is that the longer it continues, the more death it causes. We went from no deaths to illness or age(as far as we know) to now everything has a limited lifespan and can die easily from illness, and that isn’t even getting into all of the wars. Multiply that by however many shards are left and, yeah that’s a lot of death going on on a daily basis due to the sundering, in the long run the rejoining would prevent more death.

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Death is a needed just as much as life is.