With Apologies to Sena Bryer

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Originally Posted by Squig

it's all those things and also a convenient way to avoid properly gendering someone whose gender you don't actually recognize. I don't think everyone who refers to her as "they" is a foaming-at-the-mouth transphobe because there are a lot of ways to be tacitly and accidentally transphobic (and nobody has to be burnt at the stake for that kind of thing!!!) but I also think pretending that everyone who is actively malicious actually just has no clue what they're doing or saying at any given point in time is just as silly.

Ask yourself: would you refer to Y'shtola's voice actor as "they" even if you didn't know her name? What about Urianger's? Let's be real here, the answer is no.

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We refer to people with "they" all the damn time. "Hey! Where did Steve go?" "They went to the store."

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Originally Posted by Squig

it's all those things and also a convenient way to avoid properly gendering someone whose gender you don't actually recognize. I don't think everyone who refers to her as "they" is a foaming-at-the-mouth transphobe because there are a lot of ways to be tacitly and accidentally transphobic (and nobody has to be burnt at the stake for that kind of thing!!!) but I also think pretending that everyone who is actively malicious actually just has no clue what they're doing or saying at any given point in time is just as silly.

Ask yourself: would you refer to Y'shtola's voice actor as "they" even if you didn't know her name? What about Urianger's? Let's be real here, the answer is no.

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First and only time I'll address you and I'll speak in twitter so you get it.

Gender :clap: is :clap: not :clap: that :clap: important :clap:

Stop trying to find cheap cop outs to feel better than others and actually do things that make you a better person.

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Originally Posted by Squig

it's all those things and also a convenient way to avoid properly gendering someone whose gender you don't actually recognize. I don't think everyone who refers to her as "they" is a foaming-at-the-mouth transphobe because there are a lot of ways to be tacitly and accidentally transphobic (and nobody has to be burnt at the stake for that kind of thing!!!) but I also think pretending that everyone who is actively malicious actually just has no clue what they're doing or saying at any given point in time is just as silly.

Ask yourself: would you refer to Y'shtola's voice actor as "they" even if you didn't know her name? What about Urianger's? Let's be real here, the answer is no.

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For me the answer on that one is yes. I actually prefer using 'they' as a term of reference partially because of this kind of discussion. The entire movement hasn't made me resent trans folk or the like, but there's enough illogically angry folk to make me discard pronouns wherever viable. I will use he/she sparingly when I can help it, regardless of indication of others. That being said I get your point and it can be emblematic, but I disagree with using it to attempt to ascertain who is being hateful and who is not, that's too brown-shirt for me.

When I hear hoofbeats I think horse, not Zebra.

idk why you of all people are playing coy after everything else you've said in this thread

Yeah, the "they" argument isn't very good, though I also agree with the rest of the points. I feel like there are two camps of people, those who really dislike using the pronoun "they" for singular persons and then those who are completely fine with it. The first group refuses to use the word in even those situations where it should be used, for example when the gender of a person is unknown, or with non-binary people, etc. The second group freely uses the word whenever.

It's a nice pronoun. I'm not a native speaker, but I find it neat, it helps avoid unpleasant mistakes and confusion. It helps to not misgender as well. Or at least it used to. Is it wrong to use now? I thought it's an ambiguous, genderless word. Sort of how "dude" is also okay to use for everyone.

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Originally Posted by BakoolJaJa

Yeah, the "they" argument isn't very good, though I also agree with the rest of the points. I feel like there are two camps of people, those who really dislike using the pronoun "they" for singular persons and then those who are completely fine with it. The first group refuses to use the word in even those situations where it should be used, for example when the gender of a person is unknown, or with non-binary people, etc. The second group freely uses the word whenever.

It's a nice pronoun. I'm not a native speaker, but I find it neat, it helps avoid unpleasant mistakes and confusion. It helps to not misgender as well. Or at least it used to. Is it wrong to use now? I thought it's an ambiguous, genderless word. Sort of how "dude" is also okay to use for everyone.

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To the credit of Squig, the use of 'they' in the US has become a contentious topic as some people consider its use to be a tacit attempt to not use a persons chosen pronouns. Thus a generally innocent statement has become a point of possible conflict. It's not something a non-native speak generally needs to worry about.

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Originally Posted by Squig

idk why you of all people are playing coy after everything else you've said in this thread

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If you want to refer to me (a person who has been critical of Sena Bryers voice acting skills as well as her unhinged behavior on twitter) as a transphobe or whatever label you chose so bad, then please, feel free to do so. If you feel better afterwards, so be it. This word is so devoid of any meaning by now, that I literally couldn't care less. I actually don't think anybody here does.

Because it doesn't change the facts, and those are:

-her voice acting as Wuk Lamat still was terrible
-she is NOT a good person
-she apparently hates (cis)women and is very misogynistic
-she is trying to start a twitter war with her dumb tweets, calling people racist about a song
-she is a liability to SE right now with her weird behavior

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Originally Posted by BakoolJaJa

Yeah, the "they" argument isn't very good, though I also agree with the rest of the points. I feel like there are two camps of people, those who really dislike using the pronoun "they" for singular persons and then those who are completely fine with it. The first group refuses to use the word in even those situations where it should be used, for example when the gender of a person is unknown, or with non-binary people, etc. The second group freely uses the word whenever.

It's a nice pronoun. I'm not a native speaker, but I find it neat, it helps avoid unpleasant mistakes and confusion. It helps to not misgender as well. Or at least it used to. Is it wrong to use now? I thought it's an ambiguous, genderless word. Sort of how "dude" is also okay to use for everyone.

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You gotta watch with "dude" now too, unfortunately. I follow the immortal words of Ed from Good Burger that "we're all dudes" but I've had some people get mad for using the term.
The usage of the singular "they" also has people like that towards it.

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Originally Posted by Aniise

If you want to refer to me (a person who has been critical of Sena Bryers voice acting skills as well as her unhinged behavior on twitter) as a transphobe or whatever label you chose so bad, then please, feel free to do so. If you feel better afterwards, so be it. This word is so devoid of any meaning by now, that I literally couldn't care less. I actually don't think anybody here does.

Because it doesn't change the facts, and those are:

-her voice acting as Wuk Lamat still was terrible
-she is NOT a good person
-she apparently hates (cis)women and is very misogynistic
-she is trying to start a twitter war with her dumb tweets, calling people racist about a song
-she is a liability to SE right now with her weird behavior

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This right here is why I find it almost impossible to talk about this subject.
I say I don't like how she's acting and get lumped into a group of people I want nothing to do with, when all I want is for something to be said/done about it.

Why do I suddenly feel my age....since when are people so easily offended by anything ? In my time, we had no internet, hell even a tv was a luxury most could not afford. -yes, I am that old- And now with the coming of internet and social media, people get offended over lliterally nothing...I am too old for this shit.

It's not wrong to use now but it's typically used (aside from when someone prefers to be referred to as such, of course) to talk about multiple people OR a singular person whose gender you don't know/is ambiguous, for instance a hypothetical person. If you know the person's gender/preferred pronouns then you would refer to them using their preferred pronouns, usually he/him or she/her.

If you were talking about your mom, you'd probably refer to her as "her," not "them."

I bet I could a better job voice acting but then again I'd be hated for being a cis woman lol

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Originally Posted by Infindox

This right here is why I find it almost impossible to talk about this subject.
I say I don't like how she's acting and get lumped into a group of people I want nothing to do with, when all I want is for something to be said/done about it.

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I can understand that. I used to think so too and shut my mouth out of fear to be seen in a bad light by others. But that's just what people like Squig want.
They want to kill any form of debate culture and shut out unwanted opinions by threatening people like this. To label them as something they aren't.
But as long as I myself know what I am and what I'm not...this shouldn't scare me anymore. I'm done bowing my head to those kinds of people and keeping quiet. I'm not giving those empty labels power.

Gotta keep reminding myself not to engage. It's not worth it. Been through this with at least 3 other people in this thread alone that refuse to listen and insist on slapping labels on people while relying on horrendously faulty logic.

Do. Not. Engage.

The facts:

-opinion
-lie that would still be an opinion if it were true
-lie that would still be an opinion if it were true
-opinion
-opinion

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Originally Posted by Squig

it's all those things and also a convenient way to avoid properly gendering someone whose gender you don't actually recognize. I don't think everyone who refers to her as "they" is a foaming-at-the-mouth transphobe because there are a lot of ways to be tacitly and accidentally transphobic (and nobody has to be burnt at the stake for that kind of thing!!!) but I also think pretending that everyone who is actively malicious actually just has no clue what they're doing or saying at any given point in time is just as silly.

Ask yourself: would you refer to Y'shtola's voice actor as "they" even if you didn't know her name? What about Urianger's? Let's be real here, the answer is no.

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Yes, this respondent would because not everyone is stuck up about pronouns; this respondent even previously referred to people in the respondent's family as such especially when those people are not close by and is referred to in specific context like for example:

someone calls the mother, and this respondent is then asked where this person is located; this respondent will then respond "they are in the garden"

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Originally Posted by Squig

The facts:

-opinion
-lie that would still be an opinion if it were true
-lie that would still be an opinion if it were true
-opinion
-opinion

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wh--what? nani the #)*%?

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Originally Posted by Squig

If you were talking about your mom, you'd probably refer to her as "her," not "them."

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When I talk about my mom I don't refer to her as "her" or "them"... I have much stronger words to refer to my mom.

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Originally Posted by Infindox

This right here is why I find it almost impossible to talk about this subject.
I say I don't like how she's acting and get lumped into a group of people I want nothing to do with, when all I want is for something to be said/done about it.

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I've been beaten to this but yeah, it's basically a way to stop criticism.

Note they never really show proof that she's a good person, or try to show she's done a good job at voice acting in other instances, it's always "well, you're just a transphobe".

If anything, it shows how little is there to defend about her, which if I was in their position, would make me rethink my position but, alas, self awareness seems to be running low among the people with such weak arguments.

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Originally Posted by Squig

If you were talking about your mom, you'd probably refer to her as "her," not "them."

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You keep moving those goalposts. Just keep shoving them ever so slightly back. First it was anyone. Now it's specifically your mom, pretending like people don't do either. Worst part is, you've managed to derail this entire conversation with your stupidity.

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Originally Posted by Squig

The facts:

-opinion
-lie that would still be an opinion if it were true
-lie that would still be an opinion if it were true
-opinion
-opinion

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https://i.imgur.com/eabh0vZ.gif

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Originally Posted by Squig

The facts:

-opinion
-lie that would still be an opinion if it were true
-lie that would still be an opinion if it were true
-opinion
-opinion

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https://i.etsystatic.com/14384132/r/...41711_ojii.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sivante

To the credit of Squig, the use of 'they' in the US has become a contentious topic as some people consider its use to be a tacit attempt to not use a persons chosen pronouns. Thus a generally innocent statement has become a point of possible conflict. It's not something a non-native speak generally needs to worry about.

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Problem is they are in the US and the US is not global to try and push what they think is right or wrong on global is the most irritating thing I have ever found.

I even went so far before to say that Americans need to remember there are 7 continents, with multiple countries in each one; each with its own population and world views the US thinking that their way of thinking is the only way is the vilest narcissistic thing i have ever seen and it really needs to stop.

Those that are not included in the above I hope you know who you are and if not, it is those who accepts that not everyone is the same and that things like they is used in numerous ways that does not form part of an ideology shared by whatever debate is ongoing in America.

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Originally Posted by Achereon

Honestly was just about to post that

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you missed one

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Originally Posted by Squig

The facts:

-opinion
-lie that would still be an opinion if it were true
-lie that would still be an opinion if it were true
-opinion
-opinion

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You're legitimately just blinding yourself to reality at this point. If you can't bring yourself to look at facts and insist on fighting anyway, then you're not worth talking to.

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Originally Posted by Antharaes

Why do I suddenly feel my age....since when are people so easily offended by anything ? In my time, we had no internet, hell even a tv was a luxury most could not afford. -yes, I am that old- And now with the coming of internet and social media, people get offended over lliterally nothing...I am too old for this shit.

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I real question is can you clear current content without a healer?

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Originally Posted by Isala

You keep moving those goalposts. Just keep shoving them ever so slightly back. First it was anyone. Now it's specifically your mom, pretending like people don't do either. Worst part is, you've managed to derail this entire conversation with your stupidity.

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Derailment is the point.

It's already been established that everyone is transphobic, who cares, let's get back to canceling Sena now.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

I real question is can you clear current content without a healer?

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I would love to have a pockethealer. Volunteers ??

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Originally Posted by Aniise

I can understand that. I used to think so too and shut my mouth out of fear to be seen in a bad light by others. But that's just what people like Squig want.
They want to kill any form of debate culture and shut out unwanted opinions by threatening people like this. To label them as something they aren't.
But as long as I myself know what I am and what I'm not...this shouldn't scare me anymore. I'm done bowing my head to those kinds of people and keeping quiet. I'm not giving those empty labels power.

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Not going to lie that was a pretty powerful comment. I will keep this one saved.

Sena did a bad job voicing Wuk Lamat. Do I think she is a bad voice actress? No. The other things she has done in some other games, to me personally, sounded fine. In regards to FF14 though, Wuk Lamat was just not a good fit for someone who seems to be more fit for deep / higher pitched male voices. They should've just hired a Latina VA to do Wuk because with Sena it sounded like the accent was constantly forced instead of feeling natural, making her voice sound off.

If me going "Sena did a bad job voicing Wuk Lamat" makes me transphobic then fine, call me whatever you want if it'll help you feel better about yourself with your newfound delusional superiority over me, because it's not going to change my personal opinion.

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Originally Posted by Antharaes

I would love to have a pockethealer. Volunteers ??

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Sorry cannot, I am part of the healer stroke erm mean strike. Right not pushing for 4 tank 4 dps meta.

Like to support a new meta without heals.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Sorry cannot, I am part of the healer stroke erm mean strike. Right not pushing for 4 tank 4 dps meta.

Like to support a new meta without heals.

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I am not that much of a gamer, I don't do savage or anything heavy in game. Very, very casual.

In my honest opinion back to topic now the move for FFXIV to go back to America for VA's after they moved from America due to sub par Voice acting is just a step in the wrong direction and then they went to California where DEI is like a monolith ahead of you where if a game does not contain certain demographics (Latina unfortunately excluded especially if they are not trans sorry) they get threatened and basically called out and cancelled I mean look at that game releasing soon about the monkey how bad it's reception is in that part because they did not want to buckle under SBI; i have not played any other game Sena voices in but just the fact their personality is so toxic makes me want to put them all on a ignore list.

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Originally Posted by Achereon

In my honest opinion back to topic now the move for FFXIV to go back to America for VA's after they moved from America due to sub par Voice acting is just a step in the wrong direction and then they went to California where DEI is like a monolith ahead of you where if a game does not contain certain demographics (Latina unfortunately excluded especially if they are not trans sorry) they get threatened and basically called out and cancelled I mean look at that game releasing soon about the monkey how bad it's reception is in that part because they did not want to buckle under SBI; i have not played any other game Sena voices in but just the fact their personality is so toxic makes me want to put them all on a ignore list.

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Man, I remember when all we had to worry about was companies paying for the "journalists" to give them a favorable review. Now companies can pay them to run a smear campaign against people refusing to be extorted. At least most people are intelligent enough to ignore or laugh at these types. Sadly, the idiots who are listening are now making the games.

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Originally Posted by Antharaes

I am not that much of a gamer, I don't do savage or anything heavy in game. Very, very casual.

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I can respect that. Always down to heal on my warrior or pld.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Derailment is the point.

It's already been established that everyone is transphobic, who cares, let's get back to canceling Sena now.

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https://y.yarn.co/943a82fa-8fe2-4b3b...b3f74_text.gif

For now, I have a little over 3 weeks left on my sub and after that I have to think real hard about coming back. If this is the way the game is going, I won't renew my sub. In this short time I play this game I fell in love with it, but Dawntrail was too much even for my level of patience. All I really want to say is
Goodbye Wuk !!!!
https://i.imgur.com/AiFwMXR.gif

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Originally Posted by Antharaes

For now, I have a little over 3 weeks left on my sub and after that I have to think real hard about coming back. If this is the way the game is going, I won't renew my sub. In this short time I play this game I fell in love with it, but Dawntrail was too much even for my level of patience. All I really want to say is
Goodbye Wuk !!!!
https://i.imgur.com/AiFwMXR.gif

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well if you ever want to try it another MMO similar to FFXIV is launching new expac 20 Aug and from what I seen they seem to have actually listened to player feedback

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Originally Posted by Antharaes

For now, I have a little over 3 weeks left on my sub and after that I have to think real hard about coming back. If this is the way the game is going, I won't renew my sub. In this short time I play this game I fell in love with it, but Dawntrail was too much even for my level of patience. All I really want to say is
Goodbye Wuk !!!!
https://i.imgur.com/AiFwMXR.gif

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Honestly, I might let mine run out as well. Not just because of the story, but because I've been playing this game on and off for over a decade now. Despite that, I have no group of friends or anything to spend time with. My FC mates have all either stopped playing or just do their own thing and keep to themselves.

I'm hesitant to join another one because of how saturated the community is with those we've encountered in this thread. Not that I mind them personally, but being surrounded by people that don't share a similar mindset to your own and having to remain silent just to avoid unnecessary drama is something I've been dealing with for just too freakin' long now.

I'm playing out of obligation at this point, and it sucks.

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Originally Posted by Achereon

well if you ever want to try it another MMO similar to FFXIV is launching new expac 20 Aug and from what I seen they seem to have actually listened to player feedback

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I played WoW for 15 years, FFXIV for almost 2. I would like to keep playing this game. I will never go back to WoW. But in the meantime, when I won't be playing any games, I will finish my cinematic, finish my other projects, that are still shelved. And if this game is shaping up after this fiasco, I'll be back.

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Originally Posted by Vensaval

Honestly, I might let mine run out as well. Not just because of the story, but because I've been playing this game on and off for over a decade now. Despite that, I have no group of friends or anything to spend time with. My FC mates have all either stopped playing or just do their own thing and keep to themselves.

I'm hesitant to join another one because of how saturated the community is with those we've encountered in this thread. Not that I mind them personally, but being surrounded by people that don't share a similar mindset to your own and having to remain silent just to avoid unnecessary drama is something I've been dealing with for just too freakin' long now.

I'm playing out of obligation at this point, and it sucks.

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I share the sentiment I left mine due to drama then got kicked out of another due to sharing different viewpoints that does not align with the norm and mostly doing everything alone friendless the major duties cannot be done as you need people, and I have no one.

Good luck and I do hope you find some semblance of a community cause seeing this in a game as large as FFXIV one wonders if all our safe spaces will be taken, and we will just have to sit by silent never to speak for fear of offending