If you continue to dumb down the game, you will lose half your player base

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Is this another variation of the same braindead "if you want Dark Souls" strawman?

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I never said anything about Dark Souls. If you're gonna put something in my mouth, make it food, not words.

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Originally Posted by KayRadley

I never said anything about Dark Souls. If you're gonna put something in my mouth, make it food, not words.

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How about something to stimulate reading comprehension?

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Originally Posted by Kyrj

Pfffhahahahahahahaha

Yeah, no. You clearly have no idea how shitty the business world really is. They will say whatever and do whatever to stay in business and earn a buck.

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You should read my response again...

I agree they will do w/e they can for a buck: that's my whole point. If you put them in a position where their consumers are leaving b/c they aren't making specific changes, they lose money until they either cave or find another solution. I understand your frustration with how terrible the incentives in the business world are, and I agree, but your assertion is factually and historically inaccurate. Collective bargaining, boycotts, and protests are incredibly powerful tools when wielded proficiently (or sometimes there are latent effects from seemingly unrelated movements, like the WoW exodus).

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Originally Posted by Lauront

How about something to stimulate reading comprehension?

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How about not putting bloody words in my mouth and strawmanning?

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Originally Posted by KayRadley

How about not putting bloody words in my mouth and strawmanning?

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He's not engaging in either activity.

Or as this poster put it:

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Originally Posted by MagicalChase

You see tons of FFXIV players literally have only played FFXIV as their only MMO. They think people who don't want the main game to be a pointless game with no obstacles want the game to be fucking Dark Ultimate Souls DX: Prepare to be killed edition when in reality most people are just asking for the midcore crowd to not get the shaft and for normal content to be engaging.

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Likewise, I'm not aware of anyone asking for the game to become "super complex" - not the OP, and certainly not in this thread. The majority of us are just asking for the above.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I do believe that more solo-oriented players will benefit more from future Trust additions simply because they do not, in fact, coddle lower skilled players. If you mess up more than 3 times in Trust, that's it. It forces somewhat of a learning curve onto them that isn't present in Duty Finder. Sadly, a lot of high level players do not realize this and continue to rally against the system despite it ultimately being more beneficial than harmful.

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I agree that the system is beneficial and definitely feel it teaches better than Duty Finder does. But what do you mean mess up more than 3 times and that's it? It doesn't auto-boot you after 3 wipes or anything.

A lot of you are looking for complexity that has never existed in this genre before. GCD based MMOs are not "complex", nor are their combat systems deep or engaging. The game isn't being dumbed down, just the gap between those that know their playing an mmo and need to google a guide and those that didn't bother is getting smaller. That's the heart of these changes.

Dark Souls isn't even hard, and I don't know why it's constantly brought up are the barometer for difficulty in video game. Y'all out acting like it's Ninja Gaiden or something smh.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Or as this poster put it:

Likewise, I'm not aware of anyone asking for the game to become "super complex" - not the OP, and certainly not in this thread. The majority of us are just asking for the above.

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But the OP is asking for increased complexity across the board. I think if they were asking for an optional increase (like split dungeons into "story mode" with trusts and slightly more tuned "normal mode" with players), I don't think anyone would have objected.
I do agree it would be nice to have dungeons where wall to wall isn't possible, or you actually have to use CC for real.. with corresponding XP/tomes increase for time invested.
I am personally not even against making gameplay slightly harder, just not convinced it is going to be better for the game long term.

The "WOW analogy" is patently wrong. WOW is losing players not because it is super easy. I remember time when Ion was a player himself and trust me, he had (and presumably still has) nothing but extreme contempt for those who do not min-max to nth degree. If he were to get his way, he would just turn WOW into one giant raid.
WOW is losing players because 95% of population has nothing to do - casual players get watered down raids/dungeons plus endless grinds and that is literally it. No housing, no farming, no mini-games or puzzles, no light-hearted stories, just raids/dungeons/pvp mixed with grind and seasoned with toxic elitist community, that Ion helped foster himself during his time as the elitist jerks guildmaster.