Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by Docteur_Fluttershy

I wasnt saying they were wrong to complain, AST needed a buff, i'm just saying that complaining on the forum is supposedly the good way to make the devs aware of what is going on in game. It was an example to show that a constructed complaint could be a good thing, and doesnt have to lead to "get what you sow" like thunda's message felt like.

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I understand, I just think we should reserve judgement until we get some facts. I see no fewer than three abilities (6:57, 7:17, and 7:27 in the actions trailer, and these are not counting the ally fetch) that look like potential utility skills for WHM, and even a few of the casted abilities that look like heals could be much more interesting and/or useful than we realize.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

Well problem is we go back to the whole not requiring a specific class. They won't make any of the support skills on dps classes required, lest a specific class becomes required for a fight. If it was a broad dps category and it wasn't broken into melee, range, caster I could see them being required but not as designed.

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To being required in 4mans I agree the probably won't. However, not being required in 8 man content is another ball game. They could easily have them be necessary in this arena.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

There's a bit of a difference between a off gcd skill and focusing almost their entire cross role skills on support. It's just strange that the caster dps cross role has basically nothing at all to do with dealing damage.

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Let's say all of the role skills were DPS oriented.

It would be very difficult to allow choice here. You'd just take the skills that increased your class' DPS the most. There would be clear right and wrong choices. You'd stick to those skills and leave them unchanged til a rebalance. Why not build them into the class at that point?

Support skills give these casters some options as the ideal skills will vary based on party comp and content.

If you look at the changes in all the roles it seems like SE is trying to get away from the DPS or go home meta... Tanks are losing their self healing and their stances will matter more for Dps and enmity management, Dps classes lose the damage buffs and several dots.... sure the role skills seem bad currently but every class seems to have some sort of charge bar that may end up changing how we do battle as a whole requiring more focus on fulfilling your role than just pumping dps

I would say at least wait maybe a week or so, we have the media tour that was going around with more info on the gameplay and other details coming up and maybe then, pessimistic attitudes may be warranted.

All in all, it would be interesting to see what they do and if I recall, Yoshi-P did say something about AST and WHM potencies being the same for the moment with what looked like plans to change them later but we'll just have 3-4 weeks to wait for that.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

... None of the skills have anything to do with doing damage other than lucid dream to ensure you have mp. ...

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If anything, I'd say that is right way to design it; i.e. bake all the required role skills into the class (in the case of DPS, that means DPS abilities / buffs) and let the choices be about nice to have party support / flavour skills; that way you can pick class based on play-style and extras based on what is needed (or simply personal preference).

What I find truely 'whack' is that there are so many frequently used / needed tank / healer abilities in the cross-role system, which not only leads to little (or no) real choice in what to take, but also leaves class imbalances in place, such as SCH / AST having far more support than WHM regardless of cross-role abilities.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

To being required in 4mans I agree the probably won't. However, not being required in 8 man content is another ball game. They could easily have them be necessary in this arena.

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No. They won't. This is why they gave Pro-Shell to all three healers to begin with. Scholars complained that SCH/SCH couldn't cut it in the Binding Coil of Bahamut because the magic damage was too high without the shell component. They will not ever create a situation where one job is required in raiding. Yet, they still think that WHM's pure healing is enough to get people to take them in this content despite the fact they cannot create healing barriers that bar the other 2 healers from a role-- they have to be able to heal just as well in those situations, but they also have utility on top of that. It's a flaw in their design logic.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

No. They won't. This is why they gave Pro-Shell to all three healers to begin with. Scholars complained that SCH/SCH couldn't cut it in the Binding Coil of Bahamut because the magic damage was too high without the shell component. They will not ever create a situation where one job is required in raiding. Yet, they still think that WHM's pure healing is enough to get people to take them in this content despite the fact they cannot create healing barriers that bar the other 2 healers from a role-- they have to be able to heal just as well in those situations, but they also have utility on top of that. It's a flaw in their design logic.

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We were talking role skills not a specific job. They could very easily require a role skill with the new set up.

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Originally Posted by Snat

Its the only thing I can think off that would make it fair "if" we do not get any utility that is our own. We do not need to equal the DPS include on 8 people because while AST AoE and Balance is nice it is something currently they are not able to do on demand. WHM would just need to do more damage than a SCH and AST to make up for the DPS lost you would take from having no buffs to the party. We can still be a pure healer and seeing this game does focus on DPS and the quests do go a bit into DPSing as a healer - they can still make being a stronger DPS our utility that we bring to the raid.

What I am hoping doesn't happen is our DPS is on par to SCH and AST and have no extra utility that we bring to the party - that's when people will not want us.

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While I can see WHM doing maybe a bit more damage than AST / SCH (like 5-10%), in order to get anywhere close to even a nerfed Balance, WHM would have to do a LOT more damage than SCH / AST (like 20 - 40%*) and I just don't see that happening. Also, AST can, sort of, do Balance on command, in that they can hold it for specific DPS phases.

* And this doesn't even take into account MP issues, or how much more DPS (especially single target DPS) a DPS class can do compared to a Healer.

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Originally Posted by Valmaxian

I understand, I just think we should reserve judgement until we get some facts. I see no fewer than three abilities (6:57, 7:17, and 7:27 in the actions trailer, and these are not counting the ally fetch) that look like potential utility skills for WHM, and even a few of the casted abilities that look like heals could be much more interesting and/or useful than we realize.

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If that was the case though, they why say that WHM will be a pure healer and make no mention at all of added support abilities / utility... literally 5-6 words would have been enough 'WHM is getting more support abilities / utility'.

I had no idea STORMBLOOD came out so early. It's almost as if we should maybe...wait...and then give feedback?