[dev1206] Class Reforms & Action Lists

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Originally Posted by Holy_Dragoon

Those thinking that Lancer might have changed, let me introduce to you the original description:

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Trained in various weapons...? funny given they can only use lances!.. I kid!

Seriously though I know there may or may not be a majority in this but honestly I like my WHM as WHM and my BLM as BLM. Although my opinion will count for very little in the long term, I would love the WHM/BLM to be a logical movement from either THM OR CON. THM or CON can stay doing what they do but choosing a WHM or BLM overlay "job" gives you access to the traditional class lists and abilities of the WHM and BLM classes. I don't know what the programattic issues are, but it seems like if you are going to add those jobs and people may want to play them as the traditional ones do, it is better to deversify and allow people to choose how they want to play a mage... this goes in line with Yoshi-P's comments on there not being enough magic classes.

I always Imagined CON as WHM+BLM and THM as RDM+DRK without the melee... Honestly for me... Id rather see WHM,BLM,and even SCH (which I love) as the natural progression of any class and the prereq for them is that you just have to have SOME mage to 30. Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by Bahn

Because the "holy trinity" is an old trope that needs to be done away with if MMOs are going to evolve in this day and age?

That is why I hope Guild Wars 2 breaks this trend, as I find the holy trinity in MMOs to be an annoying and outdated concept.

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You would always have someone who tank, someone who heal, someone who make the dmg and someone who make the rest.
Say you have a priest which can heal & tank, you still have a healer and a tanker, although in one person.

I like most things going on here. I don't like bard to much though, and where is thief. Also, do you get to combine jobs and make them "sub-jobs" like in FFXI. I am sure that it is not a complete listing of everything though, not all the spells are there, we will see more as time gets closer, and then they will tweak it a little when 1.20 is live. Looking forward to trying it out.

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Originally Posted by M0nkeyb0y

I like most things going on here. I don't like bard to much though, and where is thief. Also, do you get to combine jobs and make them "sub-jobs" like in FFXI.

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Thief isn't planned with the current classes.
How I understand it, you level up gladiator to 30 and marauder to 15. Then you unlock the paladin jobquest where you can earn a paladin job stone or something. The stone you can only equip as gladiator and it gives your gladiator the paladin job. Job skills you earn with quests, too.

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Originally Posted by Orophen

I'm going to say you're not too far off in what's you're seeing. Yeah, THM is basically a mini-BLM now. No, Sac, raise, or enfeebles. It might as well be a completely different class. As to whether or not it can solo well, that remains to be seen. Sure, you won't be able to solo the way you had before. You'll have to relearn the class. BLMs in FFXI had no problems soloing, and although THM lost heals and enfeebles, it seems as though it's gained a ton of offensive power. So soloing just might involve crowd controlling and nuking things to death. And sure, that's not what the THM populace signed up for. And I honestly sympathize with that. But it's literally the end of the class as you know it. Gotta roll with the punches or move on, cause I can guarantee you not much can possibly be done about it. The same can be said about every other class change. Only a small minority is gonna think these changes suck. And that's not enough to get Yoshi-P's butt moving to change things.

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Thank you for this, Yes, I plan on rolling with the punches. ^^ The good thing I suppose is that all my classes are still low enough, that re-learning won't be that big of a hardship, and honestly I had a horrible time on Thaumaturge the way it was, so new dynamics for it might actually help. I guess I'll see when 1.20 comes out.

I solo on my archer quite a lot, and am really looking forward to BRD. I've been soloing with a certain rotation, and was most worried over the new description read "They are capable of generating large amounts of damage in brief spans of time, but are less effective the longer a battle drags on" I worry that this means it will be difficult to play this class unless you have someone else in tow. But I guess when you consider the self combo's, maybe that will take the place of my rotation and allow me to do enough damage to continue to solo sometimes too.

*crossing-fingers*

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Originally Posted by Felis

I'm interested. Which class you believe is with 1.20 less soloable as now?

Cross Class Skills:
GLD Abl. 1 - Temporarily reduces damage you sustain and increases enmity generated by actions executed while effect is active.
GLD Abl. 3 (Self AoE) - Temporarily increases the defense of all party members within range. Generates massive enmity.
GLD Abl. 5 - Increases block rate and grants TP for each block made while effect is active.
GLD Abl. 6 - Increases target's enmity. Traits may trigger an AoE and a chance to inflict Stun.
GLD WS 1 - Melee attack. Damage increased when executed from in front of the target.
GLD WS 7 - Shield attack. Chance to inflict Stun.

MRD Abl. 1 - Increases target enmity. Traits may trigger a chance to reduce target's attack power.
MRD Abl. 2 - Increases parry rate. Effect fades upon parrying an attack.
MRD Abl. 3 - Grants Absorb HP effect to next attack.
MRD WS 1 - Melee attack. Accuracy increased when executed from in front of the target.
MRD WS 3 - Melee attack. Damage increased when executed from the right or left of the target.
MRD WS 6 - Melee attack. Chance to inflict Heavy when executed from behind the target.
MRD WS 9 (Frontal AoE) - Attacks targets in a cone before you. Can only be used immediately after parrying an attack.

PUG Abl. 1 - Restores HP.
PUG Abl. 2 - Makes your next attack a crit when executed from behind the target. Traits may trigger INT bonus.
PUG Abl. 4 - Increases evasion and restores MP when an attack is evaded. Effect fades upon evading an attack or after a certain period of time elapses.
PGL WS 1 - Melee attack. Damage increased when executed from in front of the target.
PGL WS 2 - Melee attack. Chance to inflict Blind when executed from the right or left of the target.Combo: PGL WS 1, Bonus: Increased damage.
PGL WS 5 - Melee attack. Chance to inflict Stun when executed from behind the target.
PGL WS 7 - Melee attack. Accuracy increased when executed from the right or left of the target.Combo: PGL WS 6, Bonus: Increased damage.

LNC Abl. 1 - Grants TP. TP does not diminish out of combat while effect is active.
LNC Abl. 5 - Sacrifices HP to increase damage of next attack.
LNC Abl. 6 - Sacrifices HP to reduce recast time of next weaponskill.
LNC WS 1 - Melee attack. Accuracy increased when executed from in front of the target.
LNC WS 2 (Self AoE) - AoE attack.Combo: LNC WS 1, Bonus: Chance to inflict Stun.
LNC WS 4 - Melee attack. Chance to inflict Stun when target is attacking you.Combo: LNC WS 1, Bonus: Increased Stun duration.
LNC WS 5 - Melee attack with low accuracy. Crit rate increased when executed from behind the target.
LNC WS 6 - Melee attack with low accuracy. Damage increased when executed from the right or left of the target.Combo: LNC WS 5, Bonus: Increased crit rate.
LNC WS 8 - Melee attack. Can only be used immediately after missing an attack.

ARC Abl. 1 - Increases accuracy.
ARC Abl. 2 - Reduces enmity and increases TP generated by next action.
ARC Abl. 3 - Consumes MP to evade a single ranged or magic attack.
ARC Abl. 4 - Reduces enmity.
ARC WS 2 - Ranged attack. Chance to inflict Heavy.Combo: WS 1, Bonus: Increased Heavy duration.

CON Abl. 1 - Grants AoE to next enhancing magic spell, but increases cast time.
CON Abl. 2 - Temporarily halves enmity and gradually restores MP.
CON Mag. 1 - Restores a portion of the target's HP.
CON Mag. 4 - Resurrects the target. Traits may trigger prevention of Weakness and Brink of Death effects.
CON Mag. 5 - Creates a barrier around the target that prevents a fixed amount of damage.
CON Mag. 6 (Target AoE) - Increases the defense of all party members within range of the target.
CON Mag. 8 - Deals wind damage to the target. Chance to inflict DoT effect.
CON Mag. 10 - Deals earth damage to the target. Chance to reduce evasion against earth magic.

THM Abl. 1 - Increases magic accuracy of next spell.
THM Abl. 2 - Increases range of next spell.
THM Abl. 3 - Gradually increases magic crit rate. Effect fades upon a successful crit.
THM Abl. 5 - Reduces MP cost of next attack magic spell by half, and restores MP when cast is complete.
THM Mag. 2 - Restores MP in proportion to damage sustained. Casts cannot be interrupted while effect is active.
THM Mag. 5 (Target AoE) - Deals fire damage to all enemies within range of the target.
THM Mag. 6 (Target AoE) - Deals fire damage to all enemies within range of the target.Combo: THM Magic 5, Bonus: Reduced cast time.
THM Mag. 8 - Deals lightning damage to target.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

What has led you to believe soloing will be hard? In fact, I can foresee it becoming easier, as many of the "new" skills seem VERY useful, and there's still all the traits, which haven't been revealed yet.

Yeah, maybe conjurer will need to level THM a bit to get more nukes and maybe pug will need to learn those MP refreshers, but it's not like we currently have to level CNJ, PUG, LNC and THM to effectively solo with any class, right? Oh wait, we do.

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You both are correct. It might be fine as long as we can cross some skills, which is what I do now. It is one of the reasons why I don't have a level 50 anything, because I like having a well rounded character and play a little of everything.

As long as I can still solo when my friends aren't on, and as long as not every thing requires me to beg someone to come help me because my class is too feeble, I'll be ok. I don't mind having to work a little harder than other classes, I just don't want to be so restricted to the point that I'm just a healer and can't viably defend myself. Get tired of being a damsel in distress when it comes to being a healer.. you know what I mean? I just hope that the levels in which we gain our basic offensive spells won't be too high, that aero and stone will be worth something, and that some gentle revamping of the lore occurs in order to make things make a bit more sense. Are wind, earth and water astral? Maybe they could adjust the conjurer lore to be that they are attuned with the Astral Elements..(if that is even correct) .

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Originally Posted by Buuul

I too would like to complain about things that I don't yet understand fully and haven't had a chance to try out. Everyone listen to the opinions that I formed in the last few minutes after skimming the announcement!

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I have skimmed your comment and have formed my opinion on what i think its about and not the actual contents. Listen to me!!!

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Originally Posted by Kiote

That stupid's, once they are in the game they can never come out. Yoshida only has one shot at this. If you don't like what he's planning to do you have to say so before he does it.

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Yeah just like when they took out ability queue and then announced they will get it again in the next patch. It was the same with the stamina bar, which was in game since beta but they removed, oh and physical levels, and the object colisions that made it tiring to move in some areas, and the insane low mp cost of spells that made leveling in party "spam cure aoe mode", and the broken way to level up based on the actions you perfom in combat, and the party size...

Yeah once something is in the game they never change it again... they don't code it, they sculpt it in stone, recover it with solid steel and toss it into the sea to never be toucher again...

Man really, stop trying to turn this post into a negative one. The changes are that.. changes... they are meant to CHANGE stuff into the game, we can only hope it is for better. If something is broken/terribly bad they will fix it and that's it.

I've read ALL the pages of this post (yeah... it was a long time) and the only thing I read was your constant QQ while ppl pointed straight FACTS to your face to explain you in a somewhat polite manner that you shouldn't jump so fast to conclusions. Yet what do you do, repeat the same stuff again and again, making even some of the ppl who were enjoying the post to leave, tired of your negativity. Some of the changes may be good, other may be terrible, it's impossible to say yet, since we lack the list of the passive skills and the numbers/potency of the spells listed.

For example you say the classes has lost its potential as soloers... well how do you know that? Normaly the damaging abilities/spells of classes/jobs are balanced to do somewhat good damage to endgame stuff. If you use that same ability/spell to a mob of your level, or 2-3 levels above you normaly you utterly destroy him. Also jobs aren't meant to solo, classes are, and they have slots for cross-class skills, some ppl said that those skills are gimped... well they WERE before, what do you know now? the gild points skills dissapear after this patch, meaning the "affinity" attribute of cross-class skills can't be raised like we are doing now with a passive skill, how do u know they aren't going to boost the performance of these cross-class skills?

Well this post was long enough, sry about that. What I mean to say is:

Calm down, wait to try the changes for yourself, then if something is wrong open a post to discuss it. That's the most valid feedback you could give to the developers ^^.

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Yeah once something is in the game they never change it again... they don't code it, they sculpt it in stone, recover it with solid steel and toss it into the sea to never be touched again...

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Somebody sig this! I don have room! ; ;

AND welcome to FFxi-2 where soloing anything is a near impossibly wooooohooooooo!!!

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Originally Posted by JakeRoon

AND welcome to FFxi-2 where soloing anything is a near impossibly wooooohooooooo!!!

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except it's not