o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

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Originally Posted by Geesus

I never said in the 23 pages posted as I write this reply I wanted ANYTHING easy. And I also posted I'm not harcore as I have 2 kids I raise on my own so game play time is essential. I don't want it easy mode or press 1 button make everything. I disagree with the guilds being removed from the process as that has always been there but the need for items above the rank of the actual piece being made was out of line. I also do what you do as it makes sense for me as well.

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I'm sorry if it sounded like that, but I didn't mean that YOU in particular want an easy way, I just meant that these changes are leading to an easy way for everyone.
I agree with you that a recipe revision was needed, some of them were too complicated and also the fact that you need a r40 piece to synth a r20 recipe of the same DoH is insane (tho it does make sense from an immersion point of view, but sometimes you just have to ignore the immersion for common sense >.>) but from the exemple they gave us I think they went a bit too far...

I apologize if it sounded like an attak to you, but I just wanted to point out that even with the current system it IS possible to do everything, you just have to chose and the fact that you can't be at the same level of those that are focusing on only one discipline is totally resonable.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

But it is not removed. I imagine it will still give you a success bonus as it usually does but it's not REQUIRED to actually finish the item. They blatantly stated they're already considering alternatives.

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They said the same thing about surplus xp and look what happened to that :)

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

I hope that the example is slightly exaggerated.

If they are getting rid of parts, they should increase the amount of mats that are used.

For that Doublet Vest, it should take something like 5 or 6 cloths + 2 thread + 2 leather, or something along those lines. Limiting the mats to such a low number will just cause an over saturation of gear, and crafters won't be able to sell anything.

If they are going this route, then they need to make crafting more challenging to pull off, as well. If there is no risk, and if everything takes 4 items to craft then everyone will just make their own gear from parts they found killing mobs. This kills the gathering classes, too.

imo, while this makes things convenient, it completely breaks the potential that this current system has. It can be simplified to a less ridiculous degree.

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I agree with this except for the,

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

and if everything takes 4 items to craft then everyone will just make their own gear from parts they found killing mobs. This kills the gathering classes, too.

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The reason this isn't fully true is you can't GET all the mats needed from killing mobs. You still have to gather or atleast purchase the other non-mob drops off a bazaar or from the wards. So instead of there being a waste as you say, you can now just throw the "extra" mats up on the wards and make money that way as well.

just my two cents:

Dyeing- think this is enough itself since it cuts down parts alot

Sub crafts- cant say one way or the other- I like the idea that without time there might be that one thing you cant make. That said they said this will come in later so ok.

Facilities and treatise- dont miss needing facilities for certain crafts. Treatise are pretty easy to get with the way guild marks work now so its whatever on this.

Parts- I like the idea of parts but the problem with there usually being one part in a body that was 10 levels higher of a synth and sometimes a different discipline bothered me. Having a 10 level higher mat of some sort didnt bother me but I didnt like finding parts- especially if it was for a specific piece. I would rather just find these sort of parts or maybe reduce parts some, like just body+sleeve+ornaments.

Yet again if materia changes this significantly enough this may not bother me since that will add more back. Its a big if though.

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Originally Posted by Fireborn

To anyone still proclaiming that gatherers won't suffer.

Here are some numbers:
New: (Nearly no subsynths)
1 bolt of undyed hempen cloth
1 spindle of hempen yarn
1 circle of sheep leather
1 copper ingot (5 nuggets)

Old: (With mats subsynths broken down)
4 undyed hempen cloth (12 hempen yarn)
3 hempen yarn
1 & 2/12 sheep leather
2 Taupe sheep leather
0.1041666~ copper nugget

As you can see, pretty much everything but copper consumption was cut down to almost a quarter. Not to mention that with far fewer intermediary steps, crystals and shards will also see a massive decrease in use unless these new recipes require a large amount more than the old ones.

I'm still going to wait and see how this ends up, but I've got to throw my lot in with the group claiming this is treating the wrong symptom. The wards need a heaftier overhaul, we need a dedicated item ordering system, (which could also serve as a gil sink for the economy!) a Mail System and Auction House. We don't need another system gutted and left to die in the streets.

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You do have a point, but all that crap that never sold in Retainer wards like the parts they are removing will be gone, I understand that means the parts that are required to make those will be gone as well. But sword grips and weapon heads and stuff like that which were taking up space and people never bought them or rarely sold them because people didn't buy them will be removed. Also even if it is less mats gain the value of the items will probably go up because their will be a way higher demand than there is currently. You may sell less overall but everyone will need the new simplified mats not just one or two crafts and in turn drives the need for the items up and drives the prices up in turn. RMT now will be even more a problem with driving prices down and hopefully RMT team will take them out.

I hated all the parts, it did add a sense of realism to it but it was overkill and doesn't and should take that much work to build one piece of armor unless it is a special rare armor. Then I don't mind stuff like that, makes the item much harder to obtain and increases its value even more.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Honestly though I find this whole thread kind of funny. Just like dark matter, auto-attack, aggro icons, etc... people will bitch and moan about this until it's implemented (maybe a week or two after) and then you'll never hear about it again.

People here are resistant to change but once it has changed they tend to not care anymore.

There's a lot of over-exaggeration and slippery slope going on in this thread, it's pretty ridiculous. I understand some here may not like the changes but chances are you'll get used to it once it's here. They're only changing things drastically once and that's it. Threads on these forums have never stopped an announced change to my knowledge. Sure you'll get little tweaks and fixes but once it's implemented in its final form that's it. At that point you can suck it up and keep playing or quit.

I choose to accept the changes because I personally have little problem with them. I will concede to the point that in some cases it may be going a bit too far with the parts reduction but we will learn to live with that too.

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You never hear about it again because for the people for whom it mattered enough, they quit. Some others adapted to the changes.

HOWEVER!

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The following revisions are planned for patch 1.19. All changes listed are still in development, and therefore subject to change.

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The developers clearly gave us insight into planned change 1.5 months ahead of time, they are still in development, and are asking us to give feedback. I have feedback to give. And please, Arcell, if I have "bitched and moaned" about it, please point me to where I did. I try very hard to keep my personal feelings out of it (my personal choices matter naught, here), but instead point out the possible consequences.

Perhaps my prognogistications are wrong, perhaps they are right and this is the direction SE wished to take FFXIV. So be it. But I still have my voice to use it.

And also keep in mind that there is a point where "living to learn with it" becomes "learning to live without it." Up to know I have been quite happy, and willing to adjust to the changes. I even play CON as my primary class, and the changes to MP took some getting used to, but I'm find with them. I'm far, far less sanguine about this news.

I love crafting in this game... but from an unbiased opinion, they need to remove these parts. It really has less to do with crafters and more to do with consumers. Most crafters will not make low gear just to sell because it takes too much and lowbies cant afford the 100k asking price. Simplify recipes, more will sell in markets, prices will drop.

Another statement I read is about creating the materials to sell. In theory that was a great idea... but nobody does it. I have never seen someone making plates and squares just to sell. I have never seen a weapon head or a fishing reel in the markets, so whats the point of all that excess aside from crafters to get off with?

I love the current crafting system and all its complicated parts.. but i believe in general that removing that excess will make my crafting life in FFXIV more enjoyable and profitable.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Honestly though I find this whole thread kind of funny. Just like dark matter, auto-attack, aggro icons, etc... people will bitch and moan about this until it's implemented (maybe a week or two after) and then you'll never hear about it again.

People here are resistant to change but once it has changed they tend to not care anymore.

There's a lot of over-exaggeration and slippery slope going on in this thread, it's pretty ridiculous. I understand some here may not like the changes but chances are you'll get used to it once it's here. They're only changing things drastically once and that's it. Threads on these forums have never stopped an announced change to my knowledge. Sure you'll get little tweaks and fixes but once it's implemented in its final form that's it. At that point you can suck it up and keep playing or quit.

I choose to accept the changes because I personally have little problem with them. I will concede to the point that in some cases it may be going a bit too far with the parts reduction but we will learn to live with that too.

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I know its hardto stop a change, but i know it can be done. (prob not here but EvE it has been from time to time.)

I more wanted to point out that while its 1/2 good its also 1/2 bad,
Wont help the economy, takes away a chance to improve the gear in game.
And doesn't fix the issues that crafting is too repetitive and boring and we need a recipe book and so on..

(but you have to admit these threads are fun, even id the devs won't care)

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Originally Posted by Alcide

I'm sorry if it sounded like that, but I didn't mean that YOU in particular want an easy way, I just meant that these changes are leading to an easy way for everyone.
I agree with you that a recipe revision was needed, some of them were too complicated and also the fact that you need a r40 piece to synth a r20 recipe of the same DoH is insane (tho it does make sense from an immersion point of view, but sometimes you just have to ignore the immersion for common sense >.>) but from the exemple they gave us I think they went a bit too far...

I apologize if it sounded like an attak to you, but I just wanted to point out that even with the current system it IS possible to do everything, you just have to chose and the fact that you can't be at the same level of those that are focusing on only one discipline is totally resonable.

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or remove immersion and common sense as they r doing, u try and made a weapon blade and glue em together with the same skills and tools, tell me which is harder, please.

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Originally Posted by Alcide

I'm sorry if it sounded like that, but I didn't mean that YOU in particular want an easy way, I just meant that these changes are leading to an easy way for everyone.
I agree with you that a recipe revision was needed, some of them were too complicated and also the fact that you need a r40 piece to synth a r20 recipe of the same DoH is insane (tho it does make sense from an immersion point of view, but sometimes you just have to ignore the immersion for common sense >.>) but from the exemple they gave us I think they went a bit too far...

I apologize if it sounded like an attak to you, but I just wanted to point out that even with the current system it IS possible to do everything, you just have to chose and the fact that you can't be at the same level of those that are focusing on only one discipline is totally resonable.

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Oh no need to apologize. I knew you weren't attacking me but I just came back in game a week ago so my profile is a bit misleading. So I threw the extra info there just so you knew. ;)

I know I can't be the same level as others with more time or who concentrate on just DoH/L/crafting but a game is suppose to include EVERYONE and right now, as with most changes in game or RL, people buck the sytem. it's cool as eveyone one is entitled to their own feelings and opinions and to each, they have validity. I just don't think the changes in the receipe need to cause an all out revolution from the crafters or hardcore players either. I hope that SE DOESN'T take the challenge of any portion of the game away from us...ALLL players of each Rank and Class but, you do have to make adjustments when the players in mass ask for or demand change.

I think that what many have prompted for is some sort of poll or question and answer approach as a VERY viable solution to this and ALL future changes in game. If SE is willing to listen I'm sure these requests for additional research on behalf of the Devs IS what is needed.