Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

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Originally Posted by MOZZYSTAR

No. They look like children and the shota(?) vibes of beautiful amazonian queens mating with child-like bunny "bois" is fricken creepy.

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Female
Au Ra

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Originally Posted by Gula

Female
Au Ra

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Look like older teens, not 10 year olds like the prepubescent bunny boys. Didn't say I was a fan of female au ra, though, did I?


Edit: I'm all for male viera being shorter than female viera (because male rabbits ARE smaller than female rabbits (and realistically, female Au Ra should have been bigger than male Au Ra for same reason)), but my issue is that the "bunny bois" look like they haven't even hit puberty yet.

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Originally Posted by MOZZYSTAR

No. They look like children and the shota(?) vibes of beautiful amazonian queens mating with child-like bunny "bois" is fricken creepy.

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Yeah, tha—

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Originally Posted by Gula

Female
Au Ra

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Oh, shit... ‘-‘

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Originally Posted by MOZZYSTAR

No. They look like children and the shota(?) vibes of beautiful amazonian queens mating with child-like bunny "bois" is fricken creepy.

- Removed name from quote to not @ as requested xD -



Ditto! I love your signature! (Could anyone use it if they wanted to so long as they added you to the credits???)

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yes of course!

As far as I know they said they don't want to add any child-looking race and the reason is quite obvious (somebody can tell that Lalafells look childish, but there is no disproportion between their genders and they look like this even when they are adults). I wouldn't feel good if I had to play a small boy who could be a mate for a mature woman. But I love the idea of smaller males - it would be something new and fresh.

I don't know why you guys pick on au ra females so much. They are beautiful, a couple look a bit off, but they can look very good.

They look amazing in a ton of glams, I have this one red mage glam, no other race in the game looks as good in it as au ra. Their tails also have much less clipping issues than miqo'te. Personally, I fantasied my alt again the other week to, I went crazy get this. A xaela, face 4. You know the one with the huge horns? Red skin. She looks better than I thought (she still looks high, couldn't find the right eyes), but still has that xaela issue of the dark scales clashing with certain outfits and colors. Face 3, I'm working on making a character with that face, but their eyes are a bit off, can't really figure out what kind of look I would want if I made one of my characters have that face. I would never make my main face 3 or face 4, don't get me wrong, that's ridiculous, but I'm sure they might look good in a ton of glams.

Sorry, I am in a glam talking mood. Got motivated, and I can't log into the game to play. I am unsubbed. :(

This is still going? Nice. Obviously still support.

Nothing wrong with Au'ra females; they just got done dirty when compared to their 7ft+ males.

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Originally Posted by MOZZYSTAR

Look like older teens, not 10 year olds like the prepubescent bunny boys. Didn't say I was a fan of female au ra, though, did I?


Edit: I'm all for male viera being shorter than female viera (because male rabbits ARE smaller than female rabbits (and realistically, female Au Ra should have been bigger than male Au Ra for same reason)), but my issue is that the "bunny bois" look like they haven't even hit puberty yet.

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I see you have quoted me in your signature. Glad to see others feel the same

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Originally Posted by Taybat

I see you have quoted me in your signature. Glad to see others feel the same

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Hope you don't mind; I probably should have asked, but I forgot to check in on things often. Anyway, I had said something very similar in another thread, then I found your thread maybe three minutes later and thought it was worth quoting because it's beyond true. Not only would it benefit us for content (e.g. races, healers, dungeons, DoL/H, etc.), the players, it would benefit the dev team many ways, I think. Emotionally, physically. There's only so much workload and stress a person can handle, you know? If SE lessened the burden by increasing the budget for the game effectively (hopefully) hiring on other people to better delegate tasks, then it would overall increase performance and possibly speed up fixes.

(Sorry, male viera thread, for going slightly off topic. It's slightly on topic because of races. But... Yeah.)

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I don't know why you guys pick on au ra females so much.

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The overtly obvious sexual dimorphism that exists between female and male Aura.
The original art for female AuRa is more in line with my tastes and imho would have been amazing and more in line with a balanced dimorphism of the race as a whole. But instead they became waifus.

But when the idea to apply the female AuRa conundrum to male viera, it's unspeakable.

Either way I don't care since I know SE wouldn't put a male in a female auras state. The double standards of gender sigh.

Simple - it's how we evolved. Men by and large are physically larger and women smaller and both genders find this sexually appealing. Exceptions to this are rare. It's little to do with "double standards of gender" and more to do with what they know their playerbase tends to find appealing for each of the two genders.

That said, I view the extent of the dimorphism with Au Ra to be a mistake and I would not want to see it repeated with Viera. They can just do what they ought to have done with Au Ra females - allow for a bigger height slider that lets the men go both below and above the female height, problem solved.

Also, as was pointed out earlier in this thread, female rabbits are only "larger" to accommodate sexual reproduction, i.e. possess more body fat, but are not longer, per se, and it's also not uniform across all leporine species. However, Viera are not rabbits (or hares, for that matter) and just loosely rabbit inspired, so it's of little relevance how they differ in size as animals.

Au Ra at mid-max height is about the height of an average miqo'te - average midlander. At 30 (which mine is usually at) is about as tall as a max short miqo'te. Pretty normal size for females in this game. It's just that the males are like, what 7 feet tall? The only alternative would be to make the au ra about as tall as a female roe (like taller than viera). Au Ra would definitely be MUCH less popular, either that or make au ra males as tall as a midlander or highlander males.

When it comes to male vieras, I see them at about the exact same height as females, give or take.

To add onto what Lauront said, I think I remember someone saying that Yoshi or a higher up in SE thought the original au ra woman design wouldn’t sell as many fantasias and they used the low population of femroes as an example. So they turned them into short reptile teens with anime emotes. It’s apparent that there’s not as much interest for the more heavily built women in the game. Since the original concept called for a taller demon/dragon guy, I guess they didn’t decide to scale (heh) them down as well or thought that big muscle man sells better than small lizard boy.

In-game, there’s a xaela tribe that bred themselves so that the men are super tall, way more than normal, but the women are normal height. Maybe that means all au ra used to be short but the men of all tribes hulked themselves out over time because they’re all about fighting. There’s a missed opportunity of short au ra men on the First. But seeing how allergic to new models they are, I guess they wouldn’t really have bothered to model them if that was the case anyway.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

To add onto what Lauront said, I think I remember someone saying that Yoshi or a higher up in SE thought the original au ra woman design wouldn’t sell as many fantasias and they used the low population of femroes as an example. So they turned them into short reptile teens with anime emotes. It’s apparent that there’s not as much interest for the more heavily built women in the game. Since the original concept called for a taller demon/dragon guy, I guess they didn’t decide to scale (heh) them down as well or thought that big muscle man sells better than small lizard boy.

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Teens are still underage. Bolding this because you guys are all arguing the wrong point. Its not about how popular they would actually be or how much they would sell. Someone said "they [male viera] look like children and shota" in response to a desire for a cuter version of male viera. The double standard here is that there are people saying "female au ra is fine" but that we can't have a male equivalent of that. Its not about how popular it is, its about how people are saying men can't be short and cute without being childlike, or conversely that female au ra aren't childlike despite being short and cute. If short and cute on men are descriptors of age then the same should follow for women.

I'm not trying to argue on behalf of short bun boys or tall bun boys, I'll take either, but there absolutely is a double standard in place there. Either they both look like children, or they're both just short adults. Take your pick.

I just want male viera to be tall, decently well-built and good looking. I don't want them hijacked in order to fulfill an odd niche 'just because'.

I don’t really care how tall they are. (unless they’re Lalafell height.) As long as I can give mine a huge beard and, some scars.

Consider that people think the dimorphism of Au Ra is NOT fine and would rather not see it repeated on another race. How about a nice, average sized male race, that isn't 7 feet tall, or disturbingly short in comparison with their female counterparts.

People need to Remember that Viera males live a generally harsh, unforgiving lifestyle, so even if they were smaller they would not be "cute, soft bois".

I'm thinking more in the vein of Wildstar's Aurin race. The males were smaller, but not dramatically so, and not chibi-esque either.

Example image

http://mmoboom.ru/media/images/a8255e0c9aa385c7.jpg

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Originally Posted by Averax

People need to Remember that Viera males live a generally harsh, unforgiving lifestyle, so even if they were smaller they would not be "cute, soft bois".

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Well the Au Ra girls in the Xaela tribe look as dainty as the
Raen counterparts so you can throw that out the window tbh because they
are suppose to be more fierce but my character is a Xaela and she is sitting here
giggling like a shy anime school girl lol.

SE is just gonna half-butt it and make them like
Miqote guys and call it a day. Can't see them doing
too much at this point with how F.Viera are lol.

i know the meme that this thread will never die, but fr we need short viera males for one reason and one reason only:

https://c-7npsfqifvt0x24jnh-t-nto-dp...nbhf_$/$/$/$/$

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Originally Posted by Jybril

SE is just gonna half-butt it and make them like
Miqote guys and call it a day. Can't see them doing
too much at this point with how F.Viera are lol.

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If male viera are ever added, the devs will probably make the male viera face similar to that of miqo'te, while their bodies will sort of be like elezen - just with better proportions. Female viera is the same way. It would be nice if the males were shorter in my opinion, but I think the males and females will most likely be around similar heights.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Also, as was pointed out earlier in this thread, female rabbits are only "larger" to accommodate sexual reproduction, i.e. possess more body fat, but are not longer, per se, and it's also not uniform across all leporine species.

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Female rabbits and hares tend to be larger than their male counterparts.
"Rabbits and hares are unusual among mammals because females tend to be larger than males."
http://www.biokids.umich.edu/critters/Leporidae/

Maybe there is the odd species of rabbit where the male might be the same size as the female or a little bigger, but that is not the norm. There is a clear trend in females being larger than the males. Females are bigger in size and they also weigh more.

As a side note, male rabbits tend to be more easy-going and relaxed than female rabbits.
"Male and female rabbits are distinctly different from each other, even after de-sexing. Males tend to be more easy going and relaxed while females are usually "the boss" of any household. In the wild, rabbits pair up into couples with the female digging their burrow and the male defending her and the burrow against intruders."
http://www.bunnyhugga.com/a-to-z/rab...rsonality.html

I thought this was kind of interesting because it's similar to how viera are portrayed. Female viera seem to be the "boss" of their homeland, while the males are sort of out there defending the females that are tending to their home.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Viera aren't actually rabbits so I don't see how that's relevant at all? Realistically (in the context of the other races in the game) the males would be taller.

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Aside from the obvious rabbit ears, it's possible viera were inspired by rabbits in other ways. I already mentioned how female rabbits tend to their burrows, while the males are defending the female and the burrow against intruders. This is similar to how viera live in the game as well. Of course, this could only just be a coincidence, and the behavior rabbits display in the wild was not used as inspiration for the viera lifestyle.

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Originally Posted by Palibun

i know the meme that this thread will never die, but fr we need short viera males for one reason and one reason only:

https://c-7npsfqifvt0x24jnh-t-nto-dp...nbhf_$/$/$/$/$

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I wouldn't ever want one of those animals in the house, they poop everywhere. :eek:

Viera aren't actually rabbits so I don't see how that's relevant at all? Realistically (in the context of the other races in the game) the males would be taller.

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Originally Posted by Senn

If male viera are ever added, the devs will probably make the male viera face similar to that of miqo'te, while their bodies will sort of be like elezen - just with better proportions. Female viera is the same way. It would be nice if the males were shorter in my opinion, but I think the males and females will most likely be around similar heights.


Female rabbits and hares tend to be larger than their male counterparts.
"Rabbits and hares are unusual among mammals because females tend to be larger than males."
http://www.biokids.umich.edu/critters/Leporidae/

Maybe there is the odd species of rabbit where the male might be the same size as the female or a little bigger, but that is not the norm. There is a clear trend in females being larger than the males. Females are bigger in size and they also weigh more.

As a side note, male rabbits tend to be more easy-going and relaxed than female rabbits.
"Male and female rabbits are distinctly different from each other, even after de-sexing. Males tend to be more easy going and relaxed while females are usually "the boss" of any household. In the wild, rabbits pair up into couples with the female digging their burrow and the male defending her and the burrow against intruders."
http://www.bunnyhugga.com/a-to-z/rab...rsonality.html

I thought this was kind of interesting because it's similar to how viera are portrayed. Female viera seem to be the "boss" of their homeland, while the males are sort of out there defending the females that are tending to their home.


Aside from the obvious rabbit ears, it's possible viera were inspired by rabbits in other ways. I already mentioned how female rabbits tend to their burrows, while the males are defending the female and the burrow against intruders. This is similar to how viera live in the game as well. Of course, this could only just be a coincidence, and the behavior rabbits display in the wild was not used as inspiration for the viera lifestyle.

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I mean, that's also pretty much how humans used to live so I wouldn't read too much into it. I don't think they height difference would be massive, but like all the other races males will most likely have a higher min. and max. height than the females.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

I don't think they height difference would be massive, but like all the other races males will most likely have a higher min. and max. height than the females.

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All the male characters (except lalafell?) are taller than their female counterparts. So yeah, I would assume that's not going to change now if SE decides to add male viera (although if the males were shorter, it would be a welcomed change for me). It's likely male and female viera will be around the same height, with males having a higher min./max. height just as you said.

:squint: Bloody hell, we're going for the height thing again. Can we just ignore the whole animal type thing as being a reason for their height differences? It's silly. There's no need for them to be smaller for the sake of being smaller, because in our world rabbits/hares males are smaller than their females. Yeah, in our world. We haven't exactly seen any hares/rabbits in FF14 beyond the minion that is same size for all. And the hares that do exist were in previous games like ff12, which had literally no height differences that could be visually seen. Check Ozmone Hare/Wyrd Hare. So, using our knowledge of hares from our world is asinine because they actually have their own 'special' hares - in Ivalice - which they are heavily tied into. Viera, actually have to catch one of these hares/rabbits in their rite of passage.

Just have them be the same height.

Edit; it should be noted that Viera live in the same wood where a lot of these dreamhares/rabbits are. They're magical creatures and there's a lot of them - different types. It's more than likely not a coincidence that the hare people live with magical hares.

But beyond that did anyone catch that one of the pixies mentions that they're scared of Vii children? Haha, wonder what's so scary about Vii children. Least we know there are enough males for them to have children.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

There's no need for them to be smaller for the sake of being smaller, because in our world rabbits/hares males are smaller than their females. Yeah, in our world.

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Oh, ok. So the problem is, since this is just a video game and not real life, the races don't have to be based on real life biology, right? That means it'd be ok for a single race in a video game to have taller women and shorter men because real life biology doesn't matter. Because it's a game.

So why are we still making arguments like this?:

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Simple - it's how we evolved. Men by and large are physically larger and women smaller

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I just want to say that I won't really mind if the males have a taller min./max. height. I think that's the most likely outcome. But I'm bothered by the double standard here; if someone mentions the size difference in rabbits in real life, it's a silly idea. If someone mentions the size difference in men and women in real life, then it's ok? Either both are silly ideas, or neither are.

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Originally Posted by Senn

Oh, ok. So the problem is, since this is just a video game and not real life, the races don't have to be based on real life biology, right? That means it'd be ok for a single race in a video game to have taller women and shorter men because real life biology doesn't matter. Because it's a game.

So why are we still making arguments like this?:

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No, the argument is, stop using 'our hares' as an example for the height difference when they have their own hares. In that world, they *still* have humans that follow the same biology and evolved the same way. It's not the same for the hares, they have magical dreamhares. It's just a silly argument. You can look up the hares, even the one that is linked into the Viera as their rite of passage.

Blame FF14 for forcing the height differences on CC that do not allow for a decent overlap. Don't try to have gender be smaller than the other one based off of real-life hares - when they are heavily linked into the other ones. That's what I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

In that world, they *still* have humans that follow the same biology and evolved the same way.

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Hyur = Humans
The other races are not human.

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Originally Posted by Senn

Hyur = Humans
The other races are not human.

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Yeah, and Hyur our biology.
The others aren't - they're humanoid. The reason they were made the way they are is just on Square Enix; but it's more than likely the good old fashioned 'men' are 'taller' than women. Which is mostly true. So that's what they did. This doesn't eliminate the fact you're trying to argue that there should be dimorphism for the sake of dimorphism on an argument that 'our hares are small' - when in that world they have their own hares.

Just have a decent height range, this is what all races should have had. But forcing a gender to be smaller on the argument of 'our hares are uwu small' doesn't make for a good argument. End of line.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

This doesn't eliminate the fact you're trying to argue

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I actually wasn't trying to argue that tonight. I was just stating rabbit facts, and mentioned rabbit behavior was similar to the viera lifestyle. Might want to go back and read.

Also, no one is forcing anything. Although we can make a good guess, we don't really know what male viera look like. It's not as if there is a concrete male viera design, and we're "forcing" it to change into something else.

I think it's fine if people want male viera to be shorter than the females.

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Originally Posted by Senn

I actually wasn't trying to argue that tonight. I was just stating rabbit facts, and mentioned rabbit behavior was similar to the viera lifestyle. Might want to go back and read.

Also, no one is forcing anything. Although we can make a good guess, we don't really know what male viera look like. It's not as if there is a concrete male viera design, and we're "forcing" it to change into something else.

I think it's fine if people want male viera to be shorter than the females.

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I'm not going to go back and read anything, I honestly don't care that much and your passive aggression isn't really helping. They can want shorter males, people can want taller ones - I want them to be equal in height range. Everyone wants everything. Be nice to just actually have them.


Also, they're hares. Not rabbits. Ya'll take it easy, everyone.

It's not a silly idea to want a race that has shorter males than the females. It is a bit silly to compare real life rabbits/hares to Viera though, they're closer to humans than they are rabbits/hares physically. Remove the ears and you essentially just have a human woman.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

I'm not going to go back and read anything. Passive aggression isn't really helping. Also, they're hares. Not rabbits. Ya'll take it, easy everyone.

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I wasn't being passive aggressive, but ok.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Remove the ears and you essentially just have a human woman.

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They are humanoid, like Gwen said, so yeah. Every race aside from hyur is not human, so it'd be nice to see the height being switched up between male and female (but it's not going to happen).

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Originally Posted by Averax

I'm thinking more in the vein of Wildstar's Aurin race. The males were smaller, but not dramatically so, and not chibi-esque either.

Example image

http://mmoboom.ru/media/images/a8255e0c9aa385c7.jpg

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I don't know anything about wildstar, but the height difference here between the male and female was interesting to me.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

Also, they're hares. Not rabbits. Ya'll take it easy, everyone.

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Yeah, they're even referred to in that manner by the Garleans, I believe. During the Return to Ivalice, stuff.

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Originally Posted by Senn

art by @FrischeNq on twitter
https://i.imgur.com/BFcTvp0.png?1

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I think this is the best overall look for them. They look really good! Nice suggestion, Senn.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Yeah, they're even referred to in that manner by the Garleans, I believe. During the Return to Ivalice, stuff.

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Female rabbits and female hares tend to be bigger than their male counterparts. Not that I'm arguing that, because of this fact, male viera should be shorter than female viera.

So if someone else comes in here saying female rabbits are bigger than males, well... If it's in the context of viera and height, it doesn't really matter if they say hares or rabbits - since the females from either category tend to be bigger than the males.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Nice suggestion, Senn.

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fffffffffff

Yes, but in what dimensions are they bigger? Higher body fat and more space to accommodate a womb? Still, if we're agreed that it's irrelevant to Viera, it's a moot point I guess.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Au Ra at mid-max height is about the height of an average miqo'te - average midlander. At 30 (which mine is usually at) is about as tall as a max short miqo'te. Pretty normal size for females in this game. It's just that the males are like, what 7 feet tall? The only alternative would be to make the au ra about as tall as a female roe (like taller than viera). Au Ra would definitely be MUCH less popular, either that or make au ra males as tall as a midlander or highlander males.

When it comes to male vieras, I see them at about the exact same height as females, give or take.

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There is another alternative, and that is to give them a height slider like the Roe female one. Then you could have them be as short as they are now but say at Highlander female height at max. I personally don't like the females because of how short they are. I would have liked if they had a slim, elegant demoness vibe to them.

They could adopt a similar approach for the male Viera, and just give them a big height range. Funnily enough it is males who tend to exhibit this kind of variability in height, and not females, so it'd fit Viera men better than it would Auri females... but it would have sufficed in both cases as workaround.

I hope they don't put this race in the game, really. There are much more important things than having another doll to dress up and walk around with.

I don't know, is this The Sims or what; go to Second Life for gods sake.

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Originally Posted by Tabbs

Teens are still underage. Bolding this because you guys are all arguing the wrong point. Its not about how popular they would actually be or how much they would sell. Someone said "they [male viera] look like children and shota" in response to a desire for a cuter version of male viera. The double standard here is that there are people saying "female au ra is fine" but that we can't have a male equivalent of that. Its not about how popular it is, its about how people are saying men can't be short and cute without being childlike, or conversely that female au ra aren't childlike despite being short and cute. If short and cute on men are descriptors of age then the same should follow for women.

I'm not trying to argue on behalf of short bun boys or tall bun boys, I'll take either, but there absolutely is a double standard in place there. Either they both look like children, or they're both just short adults. Take your pick.

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When I called out female au ra as “teens with anime emotes” that was supposed to be the opposite of defending them. I don’t know what group you’re arguing to but there’s only one person in this thread that I see defending au ra women.

My whole point is that SE will make what will sell. Which is why, when they were making the hrothgar race, they decided to can the hrothgar women and replace them with viera. They figured they would sell better and people were asking for them. That’s why we’re here now.

I don’t anticipate SE adding male viera and female hrothgar in the next 2 years if they’re even added at all, but I’d expect at least the male viera to be the same size or larger than the women. Yoshi has already said as much and it would look way better. I was always under the impression that the young looking concept art was supposed to be their children.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I’d expect at least the male viera to be the same size or larger than the women. Yoshi has already said as much

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Where did Yoshi P state this? Not because I'm doubting or anything, but because I'd like to read up on it. Or are you maybe referring to the concept art?

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Originally Posted by Omymy

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Got bored of the butt thread already?