It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Correct, because my preferences goes with what an mmo is, and your need to avoid what people want to look like tends to lean more toward single player rpgs.

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This game certainly plays like a single player rpg tbh.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

That speaks volumes on your thinking skills. I'm sorry, but how can you not understand what a MMO are, and how removing an social element is bad?

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MMO's, by their very nature, attract a lot of different players. Many of whom may never opt to interact with each other by choice. Many players opt not to socialise at all and instead play on a solo basis outside of mandatory group battles. The development team are well aware of that fact and have gradually adjusted the MSQ's to be much more solo friendly than they used to be.

So there isn't anything inherently bad about removing social elements from the game. The people who want to socialise are going to do so. The ones who do not wish to socialise will have another tool to help them play the game their way.

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Originally Posted by Senliten

giving players a choice does not in the slightest equal "removing" ANY social element.

your concept of removal is it hides whatever you "believe" people should see you as, yet some would rather choose not to, but only you are making a fit that "they should see me this way, and not be given a choice if they want to play a more imerrsive game to their own concept"

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Only I should be able to pick what I look like. Not other players. People who want to remove this is using immersion as a excuse. The game has silly elements in it, and it is in the realm of the lore to have adventurers dress up like this.



So I'm just going to straight up and say it. I don't want you to have the option. When you look at me, I want you to see what I pick you to see. That is all.

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Originally Posted by Jadedsins

Only I should be able to pick what I look like. Not other players. People who want to remove this is using immersion as a excuse. The game has silly elements in it, and it is in the realm of the lore to have adventurers dress up like this.

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lore does not make good reasoning either mind you. see smn for that or any other lore contrived reason that conflicts with the actual system itself

not to mention, games an RPG ROLE PLAYING GAME immersion is a staple for this genre.

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Originally Posted by Jadedsins

Only I should be able to pick what I look like. Not other players. People who want to remove this is using immersion as a excuse. The game has silly elements in it, and it is in the realm of the lore to have adventurers dress up like this.

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You look like however you choose on your own screen. So you're not losing anything.

Furthermore, those 'silly elements' were only added due to people asking for them to be added. The game actually embraced realism to a significant extent earlier on. It's the nature of an evolving game. Even then, the 'silly' glamour is rarely used in the MSQ and is typically hidden away in side content as an opt in feature.

Though there's no reason to deny other players the ability to have the game tweaked to their tastes, too. Especially if it's client side and doesn't affect you in any way.

I don't dress up just for myself but for how other people see me. I mean that is what is fun about dressing up.


Also, it is strange that some of you speak about immersion, but ignore the lore of the game. What type of immersion are you talking about?

If we're going by the lore of the game...people who run around in ridiculous outfits are treated like complete imbeciles. You see Hildibrand treated as such. You see the elezen in a frog suit in Il Mheg treated as such. You see Oboro treated as such when he's made to wear Jacke's choice of attire during the Ninja quests. There's countless other examples strewn about too.

In the more extreme cases, such as Hildibrand, the development team are well aware that such things are not the cup of tea for many players. Which is exactly why they're few and far between as well as often entirely optional. Players are often given the option to be as serious or silly as they like during the dialogue choices offered to them.

Which is the key word. Choice.

There's nothing wrong with giving players more choice to filter things to their liking.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

If we're going by the lore of the game...people who run around in ridiculous outfits are treated like complete imbeciles. You see Hildibrand treated as such. You see the elezen in a frog suit in Il Mheg treated as such. You see Oboro treated as such when he's made to wear Jacke's choice of attire during the Ninja quests. There's countless other examples strewn about too.

In the more extreme cases, such as Hildibrand, the development team are well aware that such things are not the cup of tea for many players. Which is exactly why they're few and far between as well as often entirely optional. Players are often given the option to be as serious or silly as they like during the dialogue choices offered to them.

Which is the key word. Choice.

There's nothing wrong with giving players more choice to filter things to their liking.

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This is a waste of resources, move along.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

This is a waste of resources, move along.

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Why? Because you say so? Do you even see how dismissive you are becomming?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

If we're going by the lore of the game...people who run around in ridiculous outfits are treated like complete imbeciles. You see Hildibrand treated as such. You see the elezen in a frog suit in Il Mheg treated as such. You see Oboro treated as such when he's made to wear Jacke's choice of attire during the Ninja quests. There's countless other examples strewn about too.

In the more extreme cases, such as Hildibrand, the development team are well aware that such things are not the cup of tea for many players. Which is exactly why they're few and far between as well as often entirely optional. Players are often given the option to be as serious or silly as they like during the dialogue choices offered to them.

Which is the key word. Choice.

There's nothing wrong with giving players more choice to filter things to their liking.

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I mean nothing is stopping you from treating people who wear what you don't like any way you want. But you made my point for me. The game allows people to dress how they want. They get treated base off how they dress. So how you dress matters, and supports immersion. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

This is a waste of resources, move along.

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Whether or not it is a waste of resources is entirely up to the development team rather than either of us.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Whether or not it is a waste of resources is entirely up to the development team rather than either of us.

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The indicator is really your argument that players have the right to "choice" and editing what appears on their screen.

People have put forward multiple different options for what would be displayed to them instead of the other players choice. Along side the claims this is about supporting player choice, all of those options would need to be implemented, because "choice".

But let's not forget, other players also have a choice.
Maybe other players find dull and unimaginative glamours boring, perhaps they just can't deal with the random mishmash of unglamoured armor, perhaps "for their immersion" they should be able to make it appear that everyone is wearing beach clothes in Costa Del Sol or rugged up in Coerthas.

There are potentially as many choices to support as there are players.

The most entertaining bit is the unqualified support for player choice in what appears on their screen realistically supports more "adult" choices as well lol.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Is there any reason NOT to do that?! :o

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❤❤❤ Abs for life ❤❤❤

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

And for everyone complaining about the skimpy glamour, why didn't you speak up louder when those were first introduced.

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... so your argument is they should have asked for it's restriction rather than decided they wanted options that only affected our own choice?

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Originally Posted by Sairys

The most entertaining bit is the unqualified support for player choice in what appears on their screen realistically supports more "adult" choices as well lol.

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And as long as you're the only person who has to experience those choices, why do you think supporters would care?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Whether or not it is a waste of resources is entirely up to the development team rather than either of us.

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It's either this option or the character customization you always advocate for, because you probably can't have both. Their resources are spread thin enough as it is, Viera hair and hats, Hrothgar hair and hats. No Dancer and Gunbreaker primal weapons. Less dungeons per patch.

Do you really think they'd allocate money and work hours, more importantly the money, for coders to code and programmers to program something as useless as this when other more pressing matters exist and would need their attention? When they'd probably need to implement multiple options, such as disable everyones' glamour, disable party members' glamour, disable others' glamour, and/or disable your own glamour.

And as Sairys put it, what would you all even want them to change people's glamour to? Job relic armor? Race armor? Level 1 vendor armor? Or just flat out dispel their glamours?

https://i.imgur.com/VtXjY6o.jpg

I kinda feel like this summarizes most of what's going on. Those who just want to mind their own business get distracted by those who want attention.

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Originally Posted by Joven

I kinda feel like this summarizes most of what's going on. Those who just want to mind their own business get distracted by those who want attention.

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Seems unintended but this reads like you're talking about those arguing for the change.

The people who want this change want to distract the dev team from their priorities and have resources spent to cater to them because they can't just mind their own business and not worry about what other people have glamoured.

This thread was such a hot mess it broke the server

gg

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Originally Posted by Sairys

Seems unintended but this reads like you're talking about those arguing for the change.

The people who want this change want to distract the dev team from their priorities and have resources spent to cater to them because they can't just mind their own business and not worry about what other people have glamoured.

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That's because it is intended that way. The people who want the change are minding their business when they get distracted by the glamour of someone wanting attention and get "poked in the eye" by the appearance.

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Originally Posted by Senliten

they have no power, but you can choose not to associate with such places.

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So if someone takes uncompromising screenshots of skin I had chosen to hide but they can see it due to unglamming me, then upload them to a public domain, and if I get any harassment from the images...it's somehow my fault for in some way associating myself with this person. Even though all I did was stand there existing in the game, not doing anything to ask for this sort of attention.

Maybe you're just fortunate enough to not know how bullying really works.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Snip

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Curiosity killed the cat.

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Originally Posted by Joven

That's because it is intended that way. The people who want the change are minding their business when they get distracted by someones glamour of someone wanting attention and get "stabbed in the eye" by the appearance.

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Learning how to not be distracted isn't hard, people are just refusing to do so because lazy.

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Originally Posted by Joven

That's because it is intended that way. The people who want the change are minding their business when they get distracted by someones glamour of someone wanting attention and get "stabbed in the eye" by the appearance.

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Think you need to re-read your meme lol.

If you were minding your own business then you just wouldn't pay attention to the glamour/look through the fence.
That people have glamoured what they want to wear/are shouting numbers in no way requires any form of response or reaction from you.

Any negative you experience is because you made choices when you could have just made different choices.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

Learning how to not be distracted isn't hard, people are just refusing to do so because lazy.

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I don't think it's laziness.

I think this thread was born from a strange case of glam elitism. OP wants to be able to unglam players, but they assist in leading a glam based fc. Perhaps they're so obsessed with glams that they get unreasonably annoyed with those they don't personally like.

As for those who jumped on the wagon, well some very much give the impression that their issue isn't specific clothing, but who can wear certain clothes they think belong only on a certain type of character.

And some I think are trolls, because some of the comments defending the proposed option began to make less and less sense. I like to believe these comments are attempts at trolling because if someone truly believes some of the inane natter I saw...well...let's just say that is a tad worrying.

How strange it is to find out that for some people the act of moving their camera or concentrating on a different part of the game is too difficult for them to do. I wonder what it is like to be so transfixed by a glam that you need to ask SE to change the game for you because you cannot control how you react to someone else's outfit.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I wonder what it is like to be so transfixed by a glam that you need to ask SE to change the game for you because you cannot control how you react to someone else's outfit.

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I wonder what it's like to be so anti-choice that you can't even let people have a choice that would benefit them while not hurting anyone.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

So if someone takes uncompromising screenshots of skin I had chosen to hide but they can see it due to unglamming me, then upload them to a public domain, and if I get any harassment from the images...it's somehow my fault for in some way associating myself with this person. Even though all I did was stand there existing in the game, not doing anything to ask for this sort of attention.

Maybe you're just fortunate enough to not know how bullying really works.

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If someones that keen on bullying you, they can use mods or just create a new character with your face, get it half-naked and take a screenshot. No random is going to do that let's be realistic..

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Originally Posted by Sairys

Think you need to re-read your meme lol.

If you were minding your own business then you just wouldn't pay attention to the glamour/look through the fence.
That people have glamoured what they want to wear/are shouting numbers in no way requires any form of response or reaction from you.

Any negative you experience is because you made choices when you could have just made different choices.

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While the meme is a result of choice the sentiment is still the same. The people with the loud glamours are the ones in the image shouting to get attention, however, we don't have a choice to not look into the hole and not get poked in the eye.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

If someones that keen on bullying you, they can use mods or just create a new character with your face, get it half-naked and take a screenshot. No random is going to do that let's be realistic..

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Just because they can do that doesn't mean it's okay to give them more tools they can potentially more easily abuse.

I said many pages ago that I would be able to tolerate the option to turn off glams, if being unglammed put players into modest outfits. I stand by this statement.

If my glam is not showing off my legs or chest, my unglammed gear should not be either. It is not unreasonable to not want players to be able to reveal skin you chose to hide. If the option to hide glams ever comes to the game, then it should come in a form that is impossible to abuse through taking uncompromising screenshots.

It's one thing to have someone take lewd screenshots of your glam you chose for yourself. It's another thing altogether if someone undresses you with the unglam option, and then takes lewd screenshots.

I don't want someone else to be able to undress me. It's that simple.

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Originally Posted by Joven

While the meme is a result of choice the sentiment is still the same. The people with the loud glamours are the ones in the image shouting to get attention, however, we don't have a choice to not look into the hole and not get poked in the eye.

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Nope, you entirely have the choice to just not pay attention, to mind your own business and move on with your life.
You're just not making that choice.

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Originally Posted by Sairys

Nope, you entirely have the choice to just not pay attention, to mind your own business and move on with your life.
You're just not making that choice.

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Didja miss my story about Gary? It's kinda hard to not pay attention when they're right in your view the whole time.

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Originally Posted by Sairys

Nope, you entirely have the choice to just not pay attention, to mind your own business and move on with your life.
You're just not making that choice.

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I wish I had this much control over my mind, being able to control how you react to everything you see, focus your attention on exactly what you want. Gonna need couple of silent retreats to reach that stage of concentration.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

I wish I had this much control over my mind, being able to control how you react to everything you see, focus your attention on exactly what you want. Gonna need couple of silent retreats to reach that stage of concentration.

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If someone's outfit in a game makes you unable to control yourself then you got some serious problems.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

I wish I had this much control over my mind, being able to control how you react to everything you see, focus your attention on exactly what you want. Gonna need couple of silent retreats to reach that stage of concentration.

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Perhaps you need practice, may I suggest doing so by partying up with people whose glamours you don't like?

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Originally Posted by Sairys

Perhaps you need practice, may I suggest doing so by partying up with people whose glamours you don't like?

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Originally Posted by Penthea

If someone's outfit in a game makes you unable to control yourself then you got some serious problems.

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It doesn't bother me that much. But I'm not going to pretend like I can ignore something that is right in front of me and might be distracting (instance for example). Actually I'm sure there are OCD people who might have even more trouble diverting their attention, it can become a "don't think of a white bear" situation (look up ironic process theory). There's also those with porn addiction who get triggered, although I'd say this game isn't the best one to play in that case cause there's a fair amount of revealing npc's.

Doesn't take away the fact that it would be nice to have the option to either hide glamour or change everyones/someones outfit to something basic (latter probably the better option). Gives more choice and tolerance to those that wish to use it for whatever reason, so they may enjoy the game like everyone else. If the existence of this option reduces your enjoyment, then you're having some unhealthy values for a game imo.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

It doesn't bother me that much. But I'm not going to pretend like I can ignore something that is right in front of me and might be distracting (instance for example). Actually I'm sure there are OCD people who might have even more trouble diverting their attention, it can become a "don't think of a white bear" situation (look up ironic process theory). There's also those with porn addiction who get triggered, although I'd say this game isn't the best one to play in that case cause there's a fair amount of revealing npc's.

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So now you're bringing mental issues into the argument as well. My goodness you guys are trying literally everything.

As someone who suffers from mental issues, I don't expect any game to cater to them. It is my responsibility to manage my mental health, not SE's.

And no don't start comparing this to having impaired vision or hearing just because there are options in games to help with that sort of thing. Those are often not conditions that can be managed with therapy. Mental illness is.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

so they may enjoy the game like everyone else.

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You're not enjoying the game like everyone else does if you're one of the few who unglam those around you.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

If the existence of this option reduces your enjoyment, then you're having some unhealthy values for a game imo.

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And trying to make players appear more like npcs is healthy for a mmorpg?

As long as the option doesn't put players in skimpy outfits they didn't choose, I'd tolerate unglamming. But that doesn't mean I'll pretend that I think it's a good thing for the game. I frankly think it's damn weird that someone wants to play a mmorpg but wants to strip away one of the most defining things about the genre. It's like going to a rock band concert and complaining that you have to listen to a guitarist.

I think a great compromise would be to allow players the option to disable glamours of other PCs, Friends, and/or Party members, etc., While also allowing us to finally wear whatever we want. As someone else pointed out, being able to disable glamour or defaulting a person or group of people to wear something like AF gear would nullify the excuse of "We don't want to confuse players by allowing people to dress in gear that doesn't identify with the job they are playing."

To be honest though. Viera and Hrothgar need glamours and hairs first, imo. Unless this takes very little time to implement. (like, 15 minutes of coding)

for QoL, sure. Do I hate the same stuff? Yea... I find the ones that run around dressed like clowns are either kids or immature adults (also kids lol) It's annoying.

Do I care enough to get mad about it, nah not really lol

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Originally Posted by SamRF

If someones that keen on bullying you, they can use mods or just create a new character with your face, get it half-naked and take a screenshot. No random is going to do that let's be realistic..

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Yes, but I feel there's at least some degree of difference between "I broke ToS and modified the game data in order to take nude shots" and "SquareEnix gave me a button to that can potentially remove people's pants." The latter has a considerably lower barrier to entry, and also sort of gives the impression that SquareEnix might actually condone the behavior.

More to the point: if there ever is an option to disable glams, for the love of everything Holy (Holy Holy Holy Assize Holy Holy— er, sorry, been in too many roulettes tonight), make it just globally disable all glamours save for weaponry, put everyone in their current job's AF1 gear—which will generally be something at least in the neighborhood of the 'iconic' franchise costume for the job—and be done with it. Having a 'glamour blacklist' to be checked when loading in resources is one more needless bit of complexity the poor game engine probably doesn't really need to glue on to a critical code path in an already-aging codebase; doing it globally is almost assuredly easier to code (and test), and also means no one can complain that it's something personal and targeted. And having literally everyone in the game in their current job's iconic gear is as thematic and immersive to the franchise as you can possibly make it, which should please all the folks arguing for this feature for the sake of immersion.

And doing it that way also has no chance of de-glamming, say, YoRHa leg gear and randomly leaving someone wandering around a dungeon in what amounts to underwear and a garter belt. Because, again: I really like my pants. Please let me keep them. The Twelve know female healers get precious few pants as it is, so we must treasure those we do get, giving them a place of honor in our glamour dresser or constantly revisiting them via glamour prism, and generally treasuring them to a point just short of acting like Gollum with the One Ring.

#GiveUsMorePants2k20 #HaurchefantWouldWantIt #SlacksBetterSuitAHero #WhyAmIStillMakingHashtags #IShouldBeSleeping

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Originally Posted by AcaciaTyrannia

So now that we have female characters tanking in string bikini's and now men in wedding dresses, it's time to adopt an option a lot of other games have: Hide Glamour. Naturally troglodyte are going to assume it's because of the men in dresses. It's actually because it's breaks the theme and feel of it being a final fantasy game. Tanks should wear plate, healers should wear robes, and no one should be in a fight seriously wearing carbuncle slippers and lingerie.

I don't propose a limit to glamour, I just want to be able to turn off other players glamours displaying on my client. That way they can "Express" themselves all they want, and I don't have to suffer another topless male in a thong.

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I counter-propose....

Increasing the glamour dresser to 1,000 slots!

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Originally Posted by Bongaboi

I counter-propose....

Increasing the glamour dresser to 1,000 slots!

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I mean, wildly unrelated to the thread topic, but also emphatically co-signed. Immediately and with zero hesitation. (Please let me clear out the retainer inventory full of things that didn't fit into the glamour dresser...)

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Originally Posted by Joven

it has to be because they have some deep resentment for gay/trans/ETC people right?

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SE is progressive. It's not conservative. I am fine with this.