I wouldn't mind FFXIV becoming a WoW clone in the casual/hardcore appeal if...

User customizable UI yes, as long as it doesn't lead to exploits. You can self mod the keybinds, even tho a pain. That is becomig more a standard.

However there are plenty of wow aspects not worth it, others that can help or shoudl just be standard.

However the AI, Dungeon fight design, HP ratios are the things I would not want comign over from wow. They are outdated.

A japanese MMO developer isn't goign to try and replicate wow, even if it shares some UI aspects.

^^^ Idiot! You keep talking about HP rates and scales and w/e... No boss fight in WOW takes more than 30 minutes... Yet in FFXI there where 2 that required HOURS UPON HOURS!!! And you talk about HP rates and scales ? Jesus stop posting lol

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Originally Posted by Maxwell

Stonewalling everyone with "exceedingly difficult" content does nothing to keep players in. Its equally, if not more discouraging to fail an event 50 times in a row then to win it 50 times with no drop.

On the matter of WoW-cloning, we need to get rid of the cognitive bias behind that. Everytime a new MMO comes out, its labeled a wow clone just like Apple & Fanboys getting their panties in a bunch each time Samsung releases a new phone. I could not care less where thier concepts came from as long as their implementation makes the game better.



Bingo ! Triforce piece for you my friend.

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^^ thanks. While I love Tanaka's older works, especially XI itself - the guy just lost it towards the end. It's too bad someone with a resume like his more or less resigned in shame (He says he's sick but who knows, Japan's corporate culture is vastly different from our own)

Matsui on the other hand, clearly isn't nearly as tone-deaf and has demonstrated he can deliver engaging, rewarding battle content. If he really is working on both XI and XIV, well, I hope the guy's not overworked lol. There aren't enough talented folks left in Japan these days like Yohida or Matsui - most of them have gone off on their own now (Kamiya, Inafune & Mikami being the most prominent examples)

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Originally Posted by kazaran

User customizable UI yes, as long as it doesn't lead to exploits....

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I beg to differ on that specific condition.

Short version: The game client being located/run on your PC leads to exploits.

Long version:
The horrible UI delays, still broken cast time bar and hair ripping command lag are direct consequences of trying to make the game secure. SE chose sercurity (removing too much responsabilities from the game client) over everything else. This is not a banking system. Sacrificing ease of use for a false sense of security is not the way to go for a game. There are other ways to deal with that. I can deal with a couple RMTs (which we have already), but not with a completely broken down UI. Go ahead SE, throw every UI candy/perks you can at us. Nothing should be taboo in this matter.

Have you seen the level and amount of UI features NCsoft puts in its MMOs ? Jebus! It should be a standard to aim for :cool: . Community add-on APIs are a great way to have people focusing on legitimate stuff rather than exploits.

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Originally Posted by kazaran

I dread the thought of XIV's community becoming like WOW's.

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You dread a large community that, while childish at times, bring about a plethora of points of view and ideas and willingness to help inside and outside the game rather than be overly clique-centered and reclusive? Why?

Exactly. I rather deal with a more mature community then a ton of ego driven types that ruin the total experience. We don't need one big romper room of headaches. THere are a few with that mentality playing now, that can't even do a normal hard level fights.

Now I can say people's systems are playing a role in delay in the interface, I had to tweak the hell out of a coupel friends systems. They wonder why I don't suffer it. OR how I hot keyed stuff myself.


As far as UI. Clean, effecient, and effective is better then the ability to radomize a ton of windows and delay yoru effectiveness dealing with them. Shortcut binds is good. HAvign a gluttered mess on screen takes away from the game upfront.

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Originally Posted by kazaran

Exactly. I rather deal with a more mature community then a ton of ego driven types that ruin the total experience. We don't need one big romper room of headaches. THere are a few with that mentality playing now, that can't even do a normal hard level fights.

Now I can say people's systems are playing a role in delay in the interface, I had to tweak the hell out of a coupel friends systems. They wonder why I don't suffer it. OR how I hot keyed stuff myself.


As far as UI. Clean, effecient, and effective is better then the ability to radomize a ton of windows and delay yoru effectiveness dealing with them. Shortcut binds is good. HAvign a gluttered mess on screen takes away from the game upfront.

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You talk like the Final Fantasy community is head and shoulders above everybody else's, and you speak of maturity ? XI and XIV Community are not any different than WOW or Rift or SWOTOR or GW2, there was drama in XI, as i am sure there is in XIV and in every single other MMO out there. Maybe in WOW is more evident because hell they had/have around 10-12 million damm users <.< XI had 500 the ratio of assholes you gonna run across is drastically lower. But there as still assholes in those games Too.

As far as fights ? Really ? Outside of maybe the top 3 guilds on XI-XIV everybody else if you put them in a hardmode udluar fight, they would rage and quit, because "Oh i cannot stand here and just cast till i am blue in the face ?" Seriously XI end game was a joke, only until XIV has SE actually put some interesting fights, and they are nothing new for anybody that has been playing MMO'S in the last 10 Years.

For someone that is always slammign down others and negative about almost every aspect. I would not even talk.

It's not about who is better. It about one simple fact. This is not WOW. It shouldn't take their ideas. Then again wow took ideas from previous games. Can't say that for XI since it's an older title from a different region.

The first egotistical comment that woudl come out of WOW heads is "It's just another wow close, they compied wow" yap yap yap.

No thanks.

You have it backwards mr ego. Most WOW players couldn't cut XI. They bitched over and over it is too hard. To much you have to do to complete pre-req's. Not simply a coupel taks and run raids liek wow. Spam spells on auto macroes to heal and beat down an opponent. Those that tried wanted everything laid out for them point to point.

If you want wow go to wow. If you want EQ go to EQ. Some things can be sahred but the mentality would jump all over SE screaming at them that they copied WOW. It's time to clean up the UI's, stream line, make them effective, and have some timing rather then spam sessions. GW2 is out, go play that. It's wow like, even though not happy spam sessions on spells and abilties, and the AI is a tad better.

We don't need gamers and media stating XIV is trying to be another wow. Inclluding it's many quarks.

I doubt you have played the harder fights in this game based on your statements.

Not only the largest Linkshells only succeeded at XI. That is a total crock of crap. Especially now where end game and people's levels are much higher and simplified to please adverage gamers.

Yes drop rates are rediculous. It is also a game currently running an an engine not designed for MMO's. It is not that old of a game.

It is also not an old title and needs to be it's own, and not a clone of something else where the next thign out of yoru mouth will be "It's just a clone of WOW".

Wow had more servers but population wasn't all that different at high points. XI had a few assholes, that didn't last. Were shnned by the community, blocked, and that is what they asked for. XI was based aroudn working together, not PVP. Not self ego. Some servers inforced that. Yet you didn't work with others, you got no where, and eventually, not invited by many people. It is very different then WOW, and FF fans really don't want that aspect of wow coming into play. XI players that came over have no problem just helping peopel get what they need. Rather then "Oh you don't have good enough gea r to run with my group". "My parser says.... (if you understood parsers and how every oen gives different totals yo uwould realize that flaw".

In wow I was often different from typical players and helped. I had my Guild and it was more then sufficient to do all tasks. Im sure I could slam down people that want to get ahead, but I rather them be happy. It was a hard task in WOW where the mentality was mainly self, and fight others, rather then the fact you have to work together or get no where.

Xi was very dstinct in that requirement. Even tho it is an older game then WOW.

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Originally Posted by kazaran

You have it backwars mr ego. Most WOW players couldn't cut XI. They bitched over and over it is too hard. TO much you have to do to complete pre-req's. Not simply a coupel taks and run raids liek wow. Spam spells on auto macroes to heal and beat down an opponent.

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Nobody bitched about FFXI being hard. They bitched about it taking 6 hours to find a party, only to be sitting in one camp grinding the same mob over and over again for 30 minutes, until someone had to leave, then you were back with your party flag up.

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If yo uwant EQ go to EQ.

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WoW and FFXI took a lot from EQ. A LOT.

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Originally Posted by kazaran

For someone that is always slammign down others and negative about almost every aspect. I would not even talk.

It's not about who is better. It about one simple fact. This is not WOW. It shouldn't take their ideas. Then again wow took ideas from previous games. Can't say that for XI since it's an older title from a different region.

The first egotistical comment that woudl come out of WOW heads is "It's just another wow close, they compied wow" yap yap yap.

No thanks.

You have it backwards mr ego. Most WOW players couldn't cut XI. They bitched over and over it is too hard. To much you have to do to complete pre-req's. Not simply a coupel taks and run raids liek wow. Spam spells on auto macroes to heal and beat down an opponent. Those that tried wanted everything laid out for them point to point.

If you want wow go to wow. If you want EQ go to EQ. Some things can be sahred but the mentality would jump all over SE screaming at them that they copied WOW. It's time to clean up the UI's, stream line, make them effective, and have some timing rather then spam sessions. GW2 is out, go play that. It's wow like, even though not happy spam sessions on spells and abilties, and the AI is a tad better.

We don't need gamers and media stating XIV is trying to be another wow. Inclluding it's many quarks.

I doubt you have played the harder fights in this game based on your statements.

Not only the largest Linkshells only succeeded at XI. That is a total crock of crap. Especially now where end game and people's levels are much higher and simplified to please adverage gamers.

Yes drop rates are rediculous. It is also a game currently running an an engine not designed for MMO's. It is not that old of a game.

It is also not an old title and needs to be it's own, and not a clone of something else where the next thign out of yoru mouth will be "It's just a clone of WOW".

Wow had more servers but population wasn't all that different at high points. XI had a few assholes, that didn't last. Were shnned by the community, blocked, and that is what they asked for. XI was based aroudn working together, not PVP. Not self ego. Some servers inforced that. Yet you didn't work with others, you got no where, and eventually, not invited by many people. It is very different then WOW, and FF fans really don't want that aspect of wow coming into play. XI players that came over have no problem just helping peopel get what they need. Rather then "Oh you don't have good enough gea r to run with my group". "My parser says.... (if you understood parsers and how every oen gives different totals yo uwould realize that flaw".

In wow I was often different from typical players and helped. I had my Guild and it was more then sufficient to do all tasks. Im sure I could slam down people that want to get ahead, but I rather them be happy. It was a hard task in WOW where the mentality was mainly self, and fight others, rather then the fact you have to work together or get no where.

Xi was very dstinct in that requirement. Even tho it is an older game then WOW.

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Please for the love of all that is good, GRINDING IS NOT HARD! AT ALL! Please stop equating grind and time sink with "Difficulty" they are not the same, there are only 2 really hard fights in XI history, and they where not hard because of difficulty, they where hard because the bosses had a billion HP, and you had to go thru 50 phases...... yeah that is not hard, IS BROKEN! If i am fighting a boss for 6 hours and he has not killed me, and i have not killed him, something is wrong, PERIOD!

As far as communities go, there are good people in every game, just as there are asses, no game is superior when it comes to community, there are ninja looters, backstabers and drama queens in every game, no exceptions. Also a community is what you make out of it, if you are so sensitive that if somebody over the internets in a video game, says or does something, and it affects you, then please stop playing, you got bigger issues on your hand, other than "X player was mean to me in a video game."