6.0 Story Speculations

I'm expecting some manner of twist rather than a one note and rather predictable path for the story to take. Which would be very much in line with Shadowbringers and Stormblood in terms of the story elements that were revealed. I'm not even convinced that either Hydaelyn or Zodiark will be given much focus as anything other than convenient plot devices...and in the event that do get more focus, I'm inclined to think that it'll be in the form of a story resolution that works for different groups of players rather than just one 'side'.

More importantly, though, the full trailer isn't even out yet, nor is the second half of 5.5's MSQ's. I don't think anyone can be certain of anything at this point in time.

It's odd to me that there's so much weight given to traditional JRPG tropes and themes of 'heroism' around these parts and yet one of the biggest - the 'benevolent' deity turning out to be sinister/manipulative is mysteriously a big no go. Personally I think it'd be an excellent way to show that blind faith is a bad thing (as we saw with Ishgard, Garlemald and countless other aspects of the game world). Though I suppose we can all agree to disagree on that front.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

I'd rather be shooting up bandits with my robot buddy in Borderlands 3, but here I am.

Friendly reminder to those who seem to have forgotten: Zenos' whole plan is to mantle Zodiark the way he did with Shinryu. Consequently, whether Zodiark is "good" or "bad" depending on perspective is, as far as I can figure, a complete nonissue. Further, with his "heart" imprisoned elsewhere (i.e. functionally dead), even if he were made complete again as far as I can figure he'd be either braindead or a mindless, rampaging beast. While Shadowbringers did paint a more benign picture of Zodiark (the threat he poses to mortal life was an extension of the Ascians' will; we don't know what he actually wants or even if he wants) that doesn't mean he's "good" or "on our side." In Zenos' hands his power is without a doubt very bad news bears, and I have little reason to doubt Zenos' plan will come to fruition.

Conversely, Shadowbringers painted Hydaelyn in a more ambiguous light than she'd been before, but that doesn't mean she's a malign force in the world. Her raison d'etre is to keep Zodiark's power in check, including preventing him from consuming extant life as fuel. Telling us a falsified (or rather half-true) account of the origin of her conflict with Zodiark doesn't change that, and she hasn't shown any malicious intent toward the people of the Source or Reflections - on the contrary her whole goal, so far as it's been shown, is to keep them from dying. That doesn't mean she can't do wrong or has never done wrong, but there's been no sign of anything malign coming from her.
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Preventing him from consuming extant life as fuel? I mean they did that to save the world because he needed the aether to do so. He wasn’t forcing them to give him aether and draining the world. In regards to the heart thing, we literally see Hydaelyn on auto pilot in 5.2 meaning her heart(probably minfilia) is gone and she too is brainless and mindless.As far as showing any malicious intent, that i don’t know but apparently she intended people to forget everything about the past which is pretty suspicious to me. What does she have to hide? There’s been no sign of anything malign from Zodiark either yet people still assume he’s evil lmao. The whole theme right now is remembrance but Yshtola herself says(more discernible in the FR and JP dialogues) that Zodiark must be kept safe so that he isn’t used for any bad intentions. That tied with the paladin shot on the moon i mean cmon(I believe Yoshi P had even commented the inspiration for Paladin wasnt wholly for an ff4 reference as well but something more). It isn’t rocket science lmao. Zenos’ plan may be to mantle Zodiark, but Fandaniel exists. Why would they mantle the primal who is for salvation and not the primal capable of sundering things to non existence?

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

That's just a deliberate FFIV reference where Cecil (who like our old friend Derplander went from DRK to PLD) ends up on the moon as well at the end of the game (and which is where FFIV's final bosses are fought too), it's nothing to do with "protecting the moon" - we're on the moon to destroy Zodiark for good, even SE themselves hint that pretty hard on the main EW site:



and



Of course they don't say that "Zodiark is the final boss", but as the moon is Zodiark's literal prison, and the aforementioned FFIV references, it's pretty clear that's who we will ultimately be facing at the finale, and where.

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Implying they dont ever subvert expectations? Also where at any point did you see we're there to destroy Zodiark for good? Especially when the devs literally said in regards to zodiark and hydy there is not evil there is no good.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

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Recap:

The reason Hydaelyn even exists is because the Convocation was going to feed new life to Zodiark, implicitly including sentients, against their will to resurrect those sacrificed to him during the Final Days and restoring the planet. Either way, it sets a dangerous precedent that (ironically) leads to a stagnant world.

Hydaelyn's "heart" is one Venat, named after the character from XII, whom we've only seen a holographic recording of in Anamnesis Anyder. Hydaelyn has contacted us, but not since the climax of 3.0, and Y'shtola suspects something is preventing her from doing so.

Sundering the world sundered everything on it, including people; this more than likely extends to memories, which if I remember right are heavily implied if not outright stated to be aetherial in nature during the Return to Ivalice series.

I flat out said Zodiark is benign - neither good nor evil. That doesn't mean his powers can't be used for evil ends.

I suggested as much but Zenos stating "[He] will await us on the darkened Moon," in 5.55, strongly implies he's going to get there way before us. If we're supposed to be protecting Zodiark, pretty sure we've already failed. (Zenos can just teleport up there Ascian style, y'know. Can't compete with that.)

All primals exist for "salvation," it's just a matter of what that means to their summoners. Zodiark would be more powerful (he can literally rewrite the laws of reality, at least for the planet) so for the power-obsessed Zenos it's a natural choice. Plus we're already Hydaelyn's chosen; forcing us to go for Zodiark would just make things unnecessarily complicated. He wants his fight and he wants it sooner than later. And being controlled by a mortal, a primal's power doesn't necessarily serve its "intended" purpose.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

forcing us to go for Zodiark would just make things unnecessarily complicated.

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That depends. The game hasn't exactly avoided making many prior plot points more complicated than they arguably needed to be, after all. Just look at the lengthy song and dance that G'raha went through as a more recent example. He didn't simply absorb power during his 'slumber' - he went on a time travel adventure and then ventured to another planet entirely and then came back to the Source.

I'd be very surprised if the finale wasn't similarly intricate and with unexpected twists.

Counterpoint: Hydaelyn is basically a giant katana, so obviously Zenos will mantle her instead.

But seriously Fandaniel asks if Zenos is ready to control "You know what", Hydaelyn is half-dead, and Zodiark is still dead-dead. It's not either of them.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Recap:

The reason Hydaelyn even exists is because the Convocation was going to feed new life to Zodiark, implicitly including sentients, against their will to resurrect those sacrificed to him during the Final Days and restoring the planet. Either way, it sets a dangerous precedent that (ironically) leads to a stagnant world.

Hydaelyn's "heart" is one Venat, named after the character from XII, whom we've only seen a holographic recording of in Anamnesis Anyder. Hydaelyn has contacted us, but not since the climax of 3.0, and Y'shtola suspects something is preventing her from doing so.

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Recap... the hearts can hop out. We saw this with ELidibus. They heavily imply Minfilia was serving as her heart and now shes gone. Right after we see Hydy on auto pilot. You can put two and two together. They were going to do one last set of sacrifices yes, to bring back their loved ones and ensure the safety of the star. Thats still far better than what the sundering did which by the way, has killed more lives than the sacrifices in the long run. Elidibus says in his monologue the loss of memories is as SHE intended and this is while he's alone btw so he isnt lying. Im baffled people think its going to be as clear cut as what Zenos says when 5.55 literally shows us things arent in his control. They're in Fandaniels. Not all primals exist for salvation to the extent Zodiark does. His goal was literally the Salvation of the star and life on it. Zodiark is powerful in raw strength but Hydaelyn sundered him AND is capable of sundering anything period. Idk how forcing us to go to Zodiark is unnecessarily complicated? Seems like people just want things to be clear cut easy and simple. Fun thing about the story is its very complex and Yoshi P himself has said he wants to subvert expectations. This has never been a clear-cut story and it isnt going to be.If anything though, Zenos going after Hydaelyn would be less complicated considering shes literally in the planet he resides at and shes both without a heart and weakened. Ripe for the taking.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

Counterpoint: Hydaelyn is basically a giant katana, so obviously Zenos will mantle her instead.

But seriously Fandaniel asks if Zenos is ready to control "You know what", Hydaelyn is half-dead, and Zodiark is still dead-dead. It's not either of them.

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I tend to agree, there's a step here they know that we don't and I feel another Fandaniel's keeping to himself. They did say this'll be a far more straight forward epic fantasy adventure than politics of Stormblood or lore digging and villain understanding of Shadowbrinders, of course they'll be stuff but I don't think it's going to come from where some people think, it's not going to be about Hydaelyn not being "as good as you think/secretly evil" or us having to "protect Zodiark or bring balance" I think the sound got Fandaniel and it's going to come down to him making his true move and then us having to do what the Ancients should have done. They had a good plan, on his own Zodiark was an alright solution at least in the short term, they could have tried to figure out what the sound was, come up with something permeant, but instead they shifted all their focus to trying to have their cake and eat it by getting back all they'd lost, fighting themselves and well, we know how that turned out.
Though given the time constraints with the plot, I wouldn't be surprised if the sound ends up dooming itself, possessing Zodiark or Hydaelyn or both merging them into a new being finally giving itself a physical form, though in doing so gives us the ability to kill it.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

Counterpoint: Hydaelyn is basically a giant katana, so obviously Zenos will mantle her instead.

But seriously Fandaniel asks if Zenos is ready to control "You know what", Hydaelyn is half-dead, and Zodiark is still dead-dead. It's not either of them.

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Zodiark isn't "dead". He's been described on multiple occasions as slumbering or dormant, and I can only guess that this whole mess with the towers intends to wake him up considering how the moon is seen glowing unusually bright during the final MSQ battle (And even at present in the ARR zones).

Regardless, I think the "you know what" is probably whatever primal is responsible for the tempering that's been going on with the towers, albeit one that's more primitive in nature considering what little we do know about it. It doesn't seem to be controlling the tempered through anything but sheer force of will, unlike conventional primals that tend to flood their victims' minds with thoughts of them and their ideals.

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Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

I tend to agree, there's a step here they know that we don't and I feel another Fandaniel's keeping to himself. They did say this'll be a far more straight forward epic fantasy adventure than politics of Stormblood or lore digging and villain understanding of Shadowbrinders, of course they'll be stuff but I don't think it's going to come from where some people think, it's not going to be about Hydaelyn not being "as good as you think/secretly evil" or us having to "protect Zodiark or bring balance" I think the sound got Fandaniel and it's going to come down to him making his true move and then us having to do what the Ancients should have done. They had a good plan, on his own Zodiark was an alright solution at least in the short term, they could have tried to figure out what the sound was, come up with something permeant, but instead they shifted all their focus to trying to have their cake and eat it by getting back all they'd lost, fighting themselves and well, we know how that turned out.
Though given the time constraints with the plot, I wouldn't be surprised if the sound ends up dooming itself, possessing Zodiark or Hydaelyn or both merging them into a new being finally giving itself a physical form, though in doing so gives us the ability to kill it.

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WE dont know if Zodiark was a permanent solution though. He couldve been. Our only source otherwise is Venat who seems to be making decisons more out of fear than anything else. I dont see it as having their cake and eating it when we literally did the same thing in the alternate timeline to bring back those we had lost.