About the Emperor [Major Spoilers for 4.4]

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Critical question: do we know for sure that Solus is working with Elidibus?

Solus says he is, of course - as he steps out from his hiding place shortly after Elidibus leaves.

Until we get further information, I'm not convinced.

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That's indeed a question we should be thinking about. I already brought up how Solus mentions how Elidibus' judgement as an Emissary "seldom errs". While this indicates that Solus at least trusts in Elidibus' decisions, in regards to doing his job, it is unknown whether they indeed share the same goals. Conversely, Elidibus trusted Solus enough to be the main overseer of the Empire's development towards Ascian ends, and has even gone so far as to bring him back to work due to Lahabrea's incompetence, even after Solus' apparent "death". Thus far, Solus seems to be going along with the current plans and telling Varis to do so as well, but then it is also odd that he also waited until Elidibus was gone to make his presence known to Varis during their scene. This lends a bit to my feeling that Solus may have a bit more agency and autonomy than he lets on. The problem is that such information is really all we currently know of their working relationship with one another. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Solus has his own ambitions, and is simply trying to use Elidibus' judgement to help shape them. I'd like to think he has something up his sleeve to shake things up. But if so, what does he want? Does he want to be an eternal ruler of all of Hydaelyn? If so, this would suggest he does not truly want the resurrection of Zodiark. After all, what good's an Empire with no subjects to rule over? Zodiark's revival would come at the expense of all life on the Source, which would kind of be contradictory to that. Solus does mention he is happy with the progress he made shaping Garlemald, but does seem to lament that it's not as grand as the Allagan Empire. Perhaps he wishes to continue his work, and make his Empire even greater than that? It's certainly possible. But if he is indeed just using Elidibus, the other way around is also very likely. There's just so much more we need to know before we can affirm anything with Solus as concrete.

Also I concur that Moose's Photoshop work is grade A+++ content. Truly we do not deserve you, but we do definitely need you.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I won't name any names for obvious reasons but for the sake of clarity I want to point out that Lauront and I have endured death threats outside of the game at the hands of a poster who no longer comes here who had a bizarre obsession with painting anyone who liked Garlemald as a 'bigot'. So if we seem a tad defensive at times, please bear that in mind. We're tired of the snarky commentary and constant arguing. Hence the push to agree to disagree.

So I'm going to extend the olive branch once more. We're a fairly small community to begin with. Let's band together instead of being divisive and make a conscious effort to acknowledge that things are often not as absolute as some imply. To me, that's the biggest draw of the setting - that both the protagonists and many of antagonists have good and bad elements to them.

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Exactly this, Theo... and its one of the reasons why there are some of us who have long preferred to simply discuss lore speculations in-game or on discord. Its gotten to that point a long time ago for me and its actually a shame because these official forums are where we can express our thoughts in a manner that they will be able to be absorbed by the Dev Team.

Ironically everyone were so much more excellent towards each other on the unofficial forums of the past from six or seven years ago... Zam, Eorzeapedia (now Gamer Escape), FFXIVCore and even the BG Wiki. Gahoo, Moose, Miyun, Azury, Fweqwent, Catapult, Pentance, Aiko and her husband Hatori... I could go on for ages.

There were so many excellent posters that brought incredible ideas to the table in eight different languages and it was absolutely fantastic. The civility, the laughs, the camaraderie, the fervent hopes that 2.0 would be a great game... that era was so much fun and it was even more precious because we had no lore books to go by other than the great words of Ferne and the other Admins. Back then, if a speculation came to a halting divide, lots of us would simply shrug and say "In Ferne We Trust". And people who couldn't express in words would take to the canvas or to Photoshop and illustrate so many beautiful concepts about FFXIV.

Now, even simple ideas, ideals or thoughts are easily accused of being snide remarks. It still baffles me.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Remember when the lore forum being a place where we aspired to be free from this General Discussion nonsense and held one another to that meager standard of civil debate was something people didn't need to be reminded about?

Summerford Farms remembers.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...Summerford.png

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*(Laughs)*

Yes, I remember... wicked photoshoping by the way

If what is really desired is agreement to disagreement, I will abide by that.

However, know that I will not censor myself because others dislike what I have to say. Everyone should be free to express their thoughts and opinions openly, so long as they remain civil. Disagreements are a natural consequence. If you want to avoid dealing with those disagreements, simply hold your tongue (yes, even if others are being sarcastic and provocative). Jumping at everyone who disagrees with you is rather disingenuous if what you want is agreement to disagreement. Sometimes saying nothing is harder than writing page-long essays.

If my character is attacked, I will absolutely defend myself. While I am sorry people on other sites lack civility and make death threats (though I'm hardly surprised - this is the internet), that's not an excuse for attacking me or anyone else here.

... I made a closing argument and meant it. However you want to construe it is up to you, but I meant nothing more or less than what I said.

Well it was still not said directly that we will go to Garlemald, but both Zenos and Solus will be key characters in 5.0 so it is safe to assume that Garleans and their morality will be explored. Not sure what "bring down" will entail, but it is safe to assume that whatever will be left of them will be as light as possible, morally.

So... you know way back in post-ARR with that Sahagin priest who was "gifted the power of the Echo" by Elidibus....?

It's not just the Echo.

He became an Ascian.

At least, I'm pretty certain that's the case. I just replayed that part of the story with my second alt, and it seems so clear I don't know why I missed it before. The purple smoke. The low 'growling' that seems to accompany Ascians doing soul-shenanigany things. The ignoble end of being eaten by the primal they helped to summon.

Has this been discussed before? I don't think I've ever seen anyone describe it as anything other than the Echo. (Minfilia suggests it's comparable to the nature of the Ascians afterwards, but doesn't make a direct connection.)

So in the light of 4.4, this is intriguing. Did the priest already have the Echo? Did Solus? Can Elidibus/Ascians grant the Echo itself, or simply awaken its full potential in individuals who already possess the gift?

And with the reveal of 5.0... what does it mean for us?

Yoshi P. did mention that there's two distinct types of Ascians; the first being "natural" ones who always existed in their current state and are very low in number, then a more common type that's implied to have been created from individuals who were "reborn" somehow.

It would be pretty ingenious to give that rather quickly dismissed plot point much deeper significance this much further on.

That is, as a matter of fact, my current interpretation of Solus, actually!