Consolidated Scholar 4.0 Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by Lurkios

I'm hoping things improve on the way to 70, but at 51 I'm feeling gutted.

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Sorry to inform you... but it doesn't get much better. I'm still ok in content atm, but I don't know what the hell is going to happen for Omega. people think they're going to fix us in 4.1 or maybe even 4.2 for Savage, but even if they do "fix" us... it would only be bringing us back to normal. no improvements, no buffs... just bringing us back to normal so we have somewhat of a fighting chance. I hope they nerf AST, if only just a bit. not to the point of early HW, but just enough so that their shields are slightly less uber than ours.

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Originally Posted by MercuryAcetylene

people think they're going to fix us in 4.1 or maybe even 4.2 for Savage, but even if they do "fix" us... it would only be bringing us back to normal. no improvements, no buffs... just bringing us back to normal so we have somewhat of a fighting chance.

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That's all I want. I'm not looking for any leg up on any of the other classes, I just want the same SCH(style) I played 2 years ago back. That was fun, this isn't.

I wanna know why they had to remove one/two of our built in DoTs, when they kept 4 different Fires/Blizzards. Each DoT did a different thing, so why merge the?

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Originally Posted by Eloah

I wanna know why they had to remove one/two of our built in DoTs, when they kept 4 different Fires/Blizzards. Each DoT did a different thing, so why merge the?

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Because Yoshi said healers dpsing wasn't supposed to be a thing. then I look at Astro and they get 2 new dps skills? yea... not buying it Yoshi. Yes, I know that 1 is on a 1min CD and the other happens only when you want to throw away a useless card that wouldn't be useful for Royal Road (like getting 2 Ewer in a row even after you Redraw and nowhere to put it).... but still.

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Originally Posted by MercuryAcetylene

Because Yoshi said healers dpsing wasn't supposed to be a thing. then I look at Astro and they get 2 new dps skills? yea... not buying it Yoshi. Yes, I know that 1 is on a 1min CD and the other happens only when you want to throw away a useless card that wouldn't be useful for Royal Road (like getting 2 Ewer in a row even after you Redraw and nowhere to put it).... but still.

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No, he never said it "wasn't supposed to be a thing", just that encounters weren't designed with it in mind. This means they don't balance DPS-checks to include healer DPS, making any additional damage a healer can throw out to be pure bonus for meeting the DPS goals.

I’ve been leveling my scholar now so here are my thoughts on the class. I’m going to be doing some comparisons to Astrologian since that seems to be the strongest healing class right now. While scholar does get the job done in the content I have played it somehow feels hollow. Mana is a big issue when there is a lot of group healing and I often find myself starved for Atherflow trying to keep up in these situations. I understand that Atherflow heals are good heals with no mana but they are gated behind Atherflows and cooldowns which make them only viable for burst healing. I think SE intended for emergency tactics to fill in as the Benfic II (with Aldo) and Helios (with Succor) but emergency tactics is also gated behind a cooldown. Both of these spells also cost a significant amount of mana over their Astrologian counterpart spells (more than what is made up by Atherflow). On top of this succor is significantly worse than Aspected Helios (150 potency + 22.5 potency from Nocturnal Sect + 150% shield against 150 potency + 100% shield for Succor). How is this even possible? Scholar IS the shield healer, it’s their only option. It’s not like they can go regen healer like Astrologian can to fit the content. Outside of healing, scholar’s aoe dps is also significantly behind Astrologians. This one was a bit harder to figure out with the way bane and gravity work and the differences between them. I think the easiest way to demonstrate the differences is to work out each aoe dps in potency per second using 3 mobs. For scholar things work out like this:

Bio II + Miasma + Bane + Broil II Spam (I’m not counting shadow flare as it is very situational now)

For Bio II and Miasma we have a 35 potency tick every ~2s or so. We also have a 20 potency DD with Miasma that hits the first target on spell cast. This works out to:

Bio II (potency/s) = 35/2 = 17.5 potency/s (on the first mob)
Bio II (potency/s) mob 2 = 17.5 * .80 = 14 potency/s (on the second mob)
Bio II (potency/s) mob 3= 17.5 * .60 = 10.5 potency/s (on the third mob)
Bio II (potency/s) mob 4= 17.5 * .40 = 7 potency/s (on the third mob)
Bio II (potency/s) mob 5= 17.5 * .20 = 3.5 potency/s (on the third mob)
Bio II (potency/s) mob 6= 17.5 * .20 = 3.5 potency/s (on the third mob)

Miasma (potency/s) = 35/2 = 17.5 + 20 / 24s = 18.3 potency/s (on the first mob)
Miasma (potency/s) mob 2 = 17.5 * .80 = 14 potency/s (on the second mob)
Miasma (potency/s) mob 3= 17.5 * .60 = 10.5 potency/s (on the third mob)
Miasma (potency/s) mob 4= 17.5 * .40 = 7 potency/s (on the third mob)
Miasma (potency/s) mob 5= 17.5 * .20 = 3.5 potency/s (on the third mob)
Miasma (potency/s) mob 6= 17.5 * .20 = 3.5 potency/s (on the third mob)

Now let’s assume you are also spamming Broil II on a mob:
Broil II (potency/s) = 230 / 2.35s = 97.87

This gives a total of:
Scholar total potency/s (3 mobs) = 17.5 + 14 + 10.5 + 18.3 + 14 + 10.5 + 97.87 = 182.84 potency/s
Scholar total potency/s (4 mobs) = 182.84 + 7 + 7 = 196.4 potency/s
Scholar total potency/s (5 mobs) = 196.4 + 3.5 + 3.5 = 203.4 potency/s
Scholar total potency/s (6 mobs) = 203.4 + 3.5 + 3.5 = 210.4 potency/s

Now for Astrologian I’m just going assume they are doing normal gravity spam without using Lightspeed:

Gravity (potency/s) = 200 / 2.74s = 73 potency/s
Gravity (potency/s) mob 2 = 73 * .90 = 65.7 potency/s
Gravity (potency/s) mob 3 = 73 * .80 = 58.4 potency/s
Gravity (potency/s) mob 4 = 73 * .70 = 51.1 potency/s
Gravity (potency/s) mob 5 = 73 * .60 = 43.8 potency/s
Gravity (potency/s) mob 6 = 73 * .50 = 36.5 potency/s

This gives us a total of:
Astrologian total potency/s (3 mobs) = 73 + 65.7 + 58.4 = 197.1 potency/s
Astrologian total potency/s (4 mobs) = 197.1 + 51.1= 248.2 potency/s
Astrologian total potency/s (5 mobs) = 248.2 + 43.8 = 292 potency/s
Astrologian total potency/s (6 mobs) = 292 + 36.5 = 328.5 potency/s

Now for the mana cost of each (just calculating the mana cost vs the base potency for the spell. I’m using the total potency/s * the length of the dot for the two dots), Scholar comes in at about 4.64mp per potency vs Astrologian at 7.07mp per potency. Scholar has a 34% mana reduction when compared to a 8% at 3 mobs and 35% at 6 mobs reduction in potency vs an Astrologian. This is in no way balanced with packs more than 3. So how do you fix these issues, here my thoughts about that. First Aldo and Succor mp needs to be brought down to about the same as Aspected Benefic and Aspected Helios with about a 2 – 3% increase to account for Atherflow. Emergency Tactics recast time needs to go away (or at the very least reduce it to about 10s to account for atherflow heals) and it needs to reduce the mp cost of Aldo and Succor to about the same level as Benefic II and Helios (probably about a 20 - 25% or so decrease over base Aldo and Succor). Succor needs to have the same crit effect as Aldo has. This will make Scholar’s crit succor shields better than Astrologian’s while being a bit behind for non crit shields. This will also keep in line with the Scholar theme of being a crit dependent healer. For the aoe dps, bane needs to be brought into line with how gravity and holy works for multiple mobs. Even that is probably not going to be enough to bring Scholars in balance with Astrologian’s. We probably need a 3rd dot that is baneable to accomplish this. These are my 2gil pieces on the changes needed for scholar. Take them as you will.

P.S. Seriously, what is the point of Dissipation? I don’t think I have ever used this spell in the history that I have had it (I mained a Scholar for a good part of 3.X). With the way that fairy work at 70 it seems like there is even less on an incentive for me to use it. Please SE, just change it something useful or fun or something. Just not that…. Please…. Pretty Please. There might be a cookie in it for you.

<edit> I messed up on my orginal aoe calculations. I made corrections to reflect the correct calculations.

I've decided, playing main sch from 2.0, or I can not be a weight to my static, or just leave the game. I do not change class because those in the square do not know what to do and they ruin my class. So either review it before the raid or just leave it. It's not a criticism, but I do not have fun anymore, and since it's a game I do not see why I have to pay if I do not enjoy it. Sorry the outburst and english

Now that I have had a chance to get to level 70 on my SCH, gear a bit, and tackle some content, I feel like I can post in this thread.

- Shadowflare change allows me to use Sacred Soil more.
- I like Aetherpact, a lot.
- My mana seems completely fine and near infinite with Lucid Dreaming and smart casting.
- Even though Embrace had its potency reduced, I do not notice the difference at all in pre-Stormblood dungeons.
- Chain Startegem is cool.
- Excogitation is a great option when Aetherflow is about to come off from cool down and I have a stack left.
- I am okay with DPS nerfs. Before Stormblood I found myself getting salty when forced out of Cleric Stance because my DPS was useful. The DPS nerfs mean stopping to heal is not as consequential and I do not get salty over it anymore.
- SCH AoE DPS cannot be compared to WHM and AST. SCH AoE DPS is passive and practically mana neutral. AST and WHM cannot heal while doing AoE DPS and it greatly impacts their mana.

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Originally Posted by Bonkleberry

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- Shadowflare change allows me to use Sacred Soil more.
- I like Aetherpact, a lot.
- My mana seems completely fine and near infinite with Lucid Dreaming and smart casting.
- Even though Embrace had its potency reduced, I do not notice the difference at all in pre-Stormblood dungeons.
- Chain Startegem is cool.
- Excogitation is a great option when Aetherflow is about to come off from cool down and I have a stack left.
- I am okay with DPS nerfs. Before Stormblood I found myself getting salty when forced out of Cleric Stance because my DPS was useful. The DPS nerfs mean stopping to heal is not as consequential and I do not get salty over it anymore.
- SCH AoE DPS cannot be compared to WHM and AST. SCH AoE DPS is passive and practically mana neutral. AST and WHM cannot heal while doing AoE DPS and it greatly impacts their mana.

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1. Sacred Soil is rarely useful at all and hardly worth the stack over Lustrate or Energy drain
2. Aetherpact is decent, although the range is pretty bad
3. Mana is indeed completely fine with Lucid Dream
4. Duration on Chain Strategem is too short. Should be twenty seconds. 15 feels and is too low of a timer
5. Exogitation is a terrible ability. Not only is it not guaranteed that it will in fact go off, it's only 50 potency more than a Lustrate. It's probably just better to use Lustrate as you know it will actually heal.
6. ScH AOE can definitely be compared to the other healers. The stun Holy gives is fantastic. As an AST you have Earthly Star, that 300 potency RNG move and Gravity. They much better raw healing on AST and WHM blows SCH out of the water. As a matter of fact, on my WHM, I could DPS a lot more than on my Scholar. I could barely get my dots up and Bane before I had to spam Lustrate. As a WHM I only needed to regen, put a Asylum down and Holy plus Assize plus Aero III. It does insane amounts of damage. But I guess because SCH is passive and has no mana cost while you can literally shit out 4 holies for free, I guess that makes it fine. I also don't understand this attitude that you got salty because you couldn't DPS anymore. But now, since your DPS as a SCH is basically crap, you can be happy again. I've never read such drivel on a forum for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Starflake

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I also don't understand this attitude that you got salty because you couldn't DPS anymore. But now, since your DPS as a SCH is basically crap, you can be happy again. I've never read such drivel on a forum for a long time.

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Clearly a troll, I mean that last Argument was laughable, clearly a satirical post.