I think its time BRD get some loving

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Originally Posted by SinisterIsBack

Not to mention every song that we have is only played for MAYBE 30seconds at a time (FOE's being the exception) and even that is pushing it. So tell me why its such a big deal to remove the debuff from it?

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It's played for 30 seconds because of the damage penalty, not because it's not needed. Ballad is essentially self-sustainable because it also regens the singer's mana, pretty much giving healers infinite mana to work with the entire fight if there's no drawbacks to singing it. Same with paeon, except replace mana with TP.

Either case, I still want to smack people that label bards as a "support" class. They have support skills yes, but their primary role is still dps by ingame definition and what they have to do in a group. All the singing isn't doing jack shite if they're pulling numbers below 300 in final coil or even WoD. I mean its semantics, but I feel that we're playing an "archer that learns bard skills, not a bard". Sure four of our five abilities are support, but that is far from our only abilities because we still have skills that carry over from an archer.

Even if it's just a percentage base (bards have 10% less weapon damage than everyone else), the gap on numerical dps difference is just going to widen in future content if they continue with the downscaling on WD, which really seems to be the point of interest for some people here. Hope it doesn't come to it, but it's eventually going to hit numerical values that are so high, that the bards would be doing roughly 200 less dps (which is still 5-10% less dps than everyone else at that point) where it's probably better just to bring another dps or the eventual machinist to fill in that missing dps to hasten phases or fights.

^ Too much doom and gloom. SE won't let that happen, the game's jobs are decently balanced, and I've dealt with NO "we refuse to bring X class to content" so far like I have in other MMOs. I'm not expecting that to change.

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Originally Posted by DoubleD

Apocathasis was DRGs best freind pre buff. Countless DRGs lives were saved by this in T13.

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This...does not even remotely answer my question.

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Originally Posted by SinisterIsBack

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Swift is still a support spell, whether or not you actually actively use it in dungeons or overall tells me that you're a poor bard who does not make active use of all of the abilities presented before them.

You also actively ignore the countless other benefits I have listed to being a bard in prior posts, such as:

-Being more able to support party members
-Able to move around attack at no cost to overall DPS output
-No positionals required whatsoever
-No confusing or difficult rotation to master

You cannot compare single target support spells to multi-target support spells. They aren't even on the same level.

As I stated before, if you want to to more damage, dedicate yourself to a DD that focuses way more on dealing damage that utility (such as Monk or Dragoon) than a class with mid-range DPS with added support. Either start playing better, or switch to a class dedicated fully to DPS.

Stop playing the melancholy card when no such deficit of abilities or DPS exist. Summoners come first in the line of buffs, not bard. I have absolutely zero sympathy for you.

I can understand the bards desire to parse higher and the ideas proposed in this thread arent too bad but at the end of the day SE only rebalances jobs once exclusion from endgame content starts happening (as has been the case for WAR/Melee/BLM/DRG) which atm is not the case for bard. Rather contrary, on shiva, bard seems to be the dps in most demand for FcoB. Its hard to justify buffing a job as long as this is the case.

Its partly due to bard not having any competition for their slot. So maybe when machinist comes out there are better chances for a bard buff (this would assume though that machinist would be superior).

Another thing i want to mention is that the actual WD gap doesnt seem to increase. The innitial WD difference of 4 or 5 is naturally going to rise over time to remain the same gap due to WD increasing overall.


Example
Allagan Bow WD 42
Allagan Spear WD 47

-> difference of 5 WD

future content Bow WD 420
future content Spear WD 470

-> difference of 50 WD

= Still the same gap.

If it remained a difference of 5 WD forever, the actual gap between bards and other classes would shrink. So its expected that the difference in WD would get higher over time without making bards weaker.

You realize if they buffed BRD, nobody will take Summoners and Black Mages... why would they?

Think about it, if BRD was buffed it would be a ranged class that does the most ranged damage and provides raid-wide buffs.... think about it for a second? why would anyone take a caster?

BRD should never do more DPS than a BLM or a SMN, the reason people want BRD's is for the utility, not the damage.

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Originally Posted by SinisterIsBack

Our WD is not scaling correctly period.

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But it totally is.

Allagan bow 42 WD
Allagane spear 47 WD

42/47= 89,3%

dreadwyrm bow 52 WD
dreadwyrm spear 58 WD

52/58 = 89,6%

Its actually slightly more now.

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Originally Posted by SinisterIsBack

Some response that isn't even an argument.

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I love it when disagreeing with someone and actively proving them wrong suddenly counts as trolling. You may want to look up what trolling ACTUALLY is before labelling other people as trolls; it makes you look a tad foolish.

Second, swift song IS a support ability. What the hell is it? DPS? No, you use it to aid the speed of your companions outside of combat. How is that not support?

You also provide no argument as to why not having a rotation is a "zero weight argument." Give me reasons, don't just talk out your ass. The rest of your post is ignorable because you don't even forward any argument against the benefits to a bard I listed, just stick your fingers into your ears and pretend they don't exist. Give me SPECIFIC REASONS as to why those four things I listed are completely ignorable and irrelevant and don't play a factor. Go ahead, I'm waiting.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

But it totally is.

Allagan bow 42 WD
Allagane spear 47 WD

42/47= 89,3%

dreadwyrm bow 52 WD
dreadwyrm spear 58 WD

52/58 = 89,6%

Its actually slightly more now.

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Do you know how much Raw damage is gained by 1 WD? This is what im mainly concerned about. It was fine at 2.3. They made it worse at 2.4 for no reason. The percentage of the bosses life a bard damages is lower since 2.4 with this WD nerf. This isnt necessary and SE needs to draw a line how low they can make us.

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Originally Posted by DoubleD

Do you know how much Raw damage is gained by 1 WD? This is what im mainly concerned about. It was fine at 2.3. They made it worse at 2.4 for no reason. The percentage of the bosses life a bard damages is lower since 2.4 with this WD nerf. This isnt necessary and SE needs to draw a line how low they can make us.

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Yes i know how much 1 WD is but you havent lost 1 WD, current bard weapons still have 10-11% less WD than other weapons, just as they did when the game launched. This WD nerf you are talking about doesnt exist. I dont know what else to tell you other than look at my post again and try to understand.