DPS meters and why they're necessary

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Subjective and anecdotal evidence.. blah blah blah

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It's funny that all you pro parsers use this same lame comeback.

About as anecdotal and subjective as a parser determining a players skill as there is no parser that takes all variables of a given situation into play.

Yet you people get quiet as a mouse when presented with the idea of parsers that don't judge other people, just yourself.

I understand, a parser without "ego" enlargement isn't as attractive to elitists.

Goes to show what you really want them for, which is why I will enjoy watching the ban-hammer drop each time one of you is caught using one.

If you want your elitist bs, stay in PF & statics.
You don't want the possibility of loss, stay the heck out of DF!

Enjoy fight club... just don't forget the first rule of fight club... or do, I like the entertainment of QQ's when you get banned.

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Originally Posted by Malric

bla bla bla... elitists... bla bla bla

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strange statement said by who boasted that he could do it all without the parser and that they were all noobs if they could not do the same

Plus you are making the assumption that everybody is going to kick ppl in DF with parsers. You said yourself stay in PF.

But if they actwally put up a PF for getting a kill stated in comments, put the flags etc, and they fail due to one party member that didn't know his job and make everybody fail. Isn't in that case right to kick him out? He created the party, he set standards to enter and one player entered there without meeting that standard. This is something i really see happen 9 times out of 10 on PF. And the consequence is 85% of times the party to completly disband.

How was right what that player did?

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

having DPS meters would not be the solution to bad DPS as a whole.

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Clearly, just as other classes do for their roles. However I think the benchmarks players would want are significantly higher than what the developers would ask for.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

What DPS meters are good for at endgame is (besides the whole testing bit) figuring out who is holding back DPS.

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Placing benchmarks or modifying the "echo" system could also help with this.
For example, there's 4 dps contributing to downing "Y" boss, each player is designated "X" amount of DPS needed to beat the DPS timer.

If a player that fails they're granted an enhanced "echo" to even out the party. Maybe even a retribution strike from boss that kills them when failing DPS quota.

This would fit better with SE's "everyone can play" philosophy.

Maybe also they need a LOT more tooltips to help DPS and suggest rotations, especially in class/job quests.

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Originally Posted by LetBloodline

Plus you are making the assumption that everybody is going to kick ppl in DF with parsers. You said yourself stay in PF.

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I don't assume everyone will, I know "everyone" won't but already too many people do and more parsers = it will happen more (not less).

In PF you DO kick people! It's your group but you have to restart to replace them anyway.
You don't have requirements for C8 or C9, kick someone and then get a DF person to fill it.
You all fall out, kick who you want gone, look for replacement.

SE isn't going to change PF mechanics to make it easier for people mid raid to kick someone and get a replacement in there without them leaving.

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Originally Posted by Malric

I don't assume everyone will, I know "everyone" won't but already too many people do and more parsers = it will happen more (not less).

In PF you DO kick people! It's your group but you have to restart to replace them anyway.
You don't have requirements for C8 or C9, kick someone and then get a DF person to fill it.
You all fall out, kick who you want gone, look for replacement.

SE isn't going to change PF mechanics to make it easier for people mid raid to kick someone and get a replacement in there without them leaving.

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The problem is how i know who of the 4 dps that use classes i don't know and i never played is making us fail T4?

For your statement i guess i have the right to know wich one is underperforming

And now you'll be elitists and say that i must know all classes and be able to play my class at his fullest while i check how all other DPS are managing their class and if i'm not able to do that i should just shut up and get harassed by player that don't care about my need to clear T4 to get equip for second class cuz they don't know how to play a class that i'm not interested in, right?

Plus

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I know "everyone" won't but already too many people do and more parsers = it will happen more

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I don't agree. For me the ones that want to do it are alredy doing it and are really a low percentage.

What about give parser only personal in DF and global in PF?

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Originally Posted by LetBloodline

For your statement i guess i have the right to know wich one is underperforming

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If you had a "echo" buff applied specifically to the person underperforming you'd know who had the buff.
Just the same if they fail DPS quota and boss retribution strikes them dead... once again kind of obvious.

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Originally Posted by LetBloodline

Plus
(QUOTEME)I know "everyone" won't but already too many people do and more parsers = it will happen more (/QUOTEME)

I don't agree. For me the ones that want to do it are alredy doing it and are really a low percentage.

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If you have 10% d-bags, 90% good & there are 10k of them (1k:9k)
Up that to 1m total and you'll have 100k:900k thus 100x as many d-bags
That is still 10% d-bags, 90% good but there IS more of them now.

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Originally Posted by LetBloodline

What about give parser only personal in DF and global in PF?

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I don't care what people do in PF, that's their groups and they can filter.

DF however is un-gear-checked random players learning content.

Only way I'd be okay if parser was in DF is if you limited kick options something like this:

AFK - requires player has been marked AFK by system
D/C - requires player been DC "X" amount of time (give chance to re-connect)
Cheating - Pages a GM who does the kicking
Harassment - Pages a GM who does the kicking

I don't think players should be able to kick from DF for performance. SE agrees hence why it's not an option.
You want a guaranteed win, get a static or try PF group (which is where they allow screening)
There is no justification to kick learning players from where they go to learn.

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Originally Posted by Malric

DF however is un-gear-checked random players learning content.

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That's not true. DF has minimum ilvl requirements, and in some cases we can be confident that the ilvl required by DF is actually higher than what's required to clear the content.

Okay, to close this because it's beating a dead horse.

I can see parsers if they were personal only.
I could even see something like they can have bench ratings in it (low/avg/high) or whatever and have "capable of hitting high or avg" as a qualification aside from iLvL

Heck I'd even be okay with a broadcast parser that only worked in PF, leader checks the "Use parser" option and it shows in party section by "serious players" and such.

I'm not and I guarantee the majority of the game plus those at SE are not okay with parsers being used to kick people in DF.

It's wrong, if you feel your time is wasted in DF leave!
It's a place to learn, not be judged.

I'd bet money preventing that alone is a reason why they're not allowed.