Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

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Originally Posted by Malthir

My I suggest SWTOR, the free to play version is not great, and the gameplay has some jank but each class has a fully voice decent storyline where you actually get to do things. I know that sounds like a novelty after the shitshow that is DT. Been playing through it myself just to have an MMO with an actual story I can enjoy.

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While I never really touched anything end game, I found the Imperial Agent and Sith Warrior stories alone worth downloading the game and trying it out.

https://imgur.com/a/Y5ZForV

Well, turns out that she really IS a self insert OC hahaha!

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Originally Posted by antiabz

It’s permanently damaged my trust in FFXIV to be honest.

Multiple people gave the green light to DT’s MSQ (and the Endwalker post MSQ). They wrote it, checked it, double checked it, and shipped it like this. Did Yoshi not play it first? Did any of them? The change in quality of storytelling was rapid and shockingly obvious, so much so I actually discovered and logged on to these forums for the first time since starting to play to find out what on earth had happened.

I hung around far too long after getting burned by Blizzard, and I swore never to give a company that much goodwill again. FFXIV felt like a breath of fresh air, a development team that actually really cared about the player enjoying themselves, cared about the lore and story.

The expansion was the first time I came looking for these forums. It is the first time the story felt like a slog rather than a joy. The first time I logged off in the middle of the last zone, vowing never to return because I was so annoyed/bored. And it is the last time that I will preorder an FFXIV expansion or play any of the post MSQ patches until I see reviews first and know which way the game is heading.

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Damn dude, as a former Blizzard fan this genuinely makes me sad. My faith was shaken in CBU3 as well. This makes me think they just don't really care anymore, after the HyZo arc. They need Ishikawa back, give her a demotion along with a pay raise.

if possible

I would like to ask Sphene for a regulator then act like it accidentally delete my memory about Wuk Lamat

from that point, I will keep pretending to not remember anything and give her the cold shoulder forever.

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Originally Posted by antiabz

Thanks, I will check that out. We were at a bit of a loss trying to think what to play this weekend!

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If you're looking for an MMO with a story, you're not going to avoid being burned in the same way by going to SWTOR lol. The base game storylines are good, but they get absolutely horrendous when you get to the expansion content. There's also the fact that current "expansions" are about the equivalent of an XIV patch in terms of content density, and the game is on life support.

I would honestly recommend GW2 before SWTOR if you are looking for a game with a decent future. SWTOR is fine if you don't mind being "finished" with it after you play through the base game's stories.

But you're going to be burned in the exact same ways by SWTOR. A promising start that devolves in to mediocrity and then worse.

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Originally Posted by fioravictorine

Are you guys prepared for the continuation of Wuk's Grand Adventure! in 7.1? :D

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Absolutely - I've already cancelled my subscription!

I want to say I am hoping for the future of the game. Like 7.1 and over to really improve on the writing. This time around the dungeons were really well made and actually had difficulty I expected when we got the Tower of Zot. And managed to hold onto that difficulty consistently. So dungeon and trial wise it's been fun. But that's the only fun I've found in the expansion.

The story drags on and on, partially the fault of Wuk Lamat but it also has so many problems it makes my head spin. Both sections of Tural should have been it's own expansion. Or at least the second half being in patches since Alexandria deserved to be explored more. Even then I'm not sure if that'll be enough to fix it beyond the pacing. At this point, when it comes to base Dawntrail, nothing short of a second dropping of Meteor can really save it in my eyes.

Ishikawa didn't have much say in this beyond potentially a handful of scenes and it really shows when you compare it to Shadowbringers and Endwalker. And the scenes that did well, either it was a fluke or a fleeting stroke of genius. Might just end up going through new game + for those expansions then cancelling the sub. At least until I know there will be a positive future for the game.

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Originally Posted by Embran

If you're looking for an MMO with a story, you're not going to avoid being burned in the same way by going to SWTOR lol. The base game storylines are good, but they get absolutely horrendous when you get to the expansion content. There's also the fact that current "expansions" are about the equivalent of an XIV patch in terms of content density, and the game is on life support.

I would honestly recommend GW2 before SWTOR if you are looking for a game with a decent future. SWTOR is fine if you don't mind being "finished" with it after you play through the base game's stories.

But you're going to be burned in the exact same ways by SWTOR. A promising start that devolves in to mediocrity and then worse.

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I've played GW2 off and on since release, and I'm of the opinion that it basically only has a future out of necessity. ArenaNet's tried to abandon it multiple times and had to be smacked around by NCSoft to the point that they had 3 titles canceled and the staff assigned to them fired. It also has plenty of absolutely terrible stories, though they probably have more voice acting.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

I've played GW2 off and on since release, and I'm of the opinion that it basically only has a future out of necessity. ArenaNet's tried to abandon it multiple times and had to be smacked around by NCSoft to the point that they had 3 titles canceled and the staff assigned to them fired. It also has plenty of absolutely terrible stories, though they probably have more voice acting.

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Welcome to the reality of MMOs. I know this is the "FFXIV bad" thread, and I absolutely had many issues with DT's MSQ -- much more than any other MSQ to date -- but I refuse to live in some bizzaro world where SWTOR is suddenly the pinnacle of MMO storytelling. The base game stories are FANTASTIC. Especially Sith Inquisitor's, which was my favorite. But if people think DT is bad and are moving to SWTOR, it's only because they haven't reached the expansions yet.

The truth is, as far as western MMOs go, only FFXIV, WoW and ESO are the ones with any promising futures, and each of those games have problems of their own. I'd recommend WoW, which I also play, but the person said they were burned by Blizzard before, so I'm not going to shove it down their throats.

GW2 is in the "safe" category. The game is fine. It's not very ambitious anymore owed to its lack of revenue, but it will keep pumping out decent content at a decent pace.

I think telling people to go to SWTOR is laughable, though. It's fine if you want a single player story that you can put down. But the support that game gets is close to zero. You get the equivalent of an XIV patch every 2 years. And that might be generous.

I've never posted here before and felt the need to make an account to chime in on this because the issue really is just that bad. I love this game, Shadowbringer and Endwalker together formed my most favorite gaming experience ever and I was truthfully very excited for Dawntrail. At first, I didn't seem to mind Wuk Lamat but as the MSQ went on and on, I found myself unable to even listen or read any of her lines, I ended up skipping every single one, I can't even go back and watch the Unending Story without groaning when she's onscreen. The character really does suck the life out of every single other character she encounters and makes the MSQ completely terrible to experience.

There are other issues with Dawntrail, there are with every and any expansion, and maybe WL is a symptom of a larger problem rather than the main issue but she's the most glaring and most importantly the most draining. While I doubt my post or maybe any others here will change SE's mind, if there is one single Dev eyeing these forums for feedback, please take this issue to heart, this has to be fixed because the player experience of Wuk Lamat the character outshines any and every other issue with Dawntrail and if left as is, will end in a lot of people unable to enjoy the very MSQ this game is known for.

Lammy ain't as bad as all that - sure some of the line delivery sucks but i blame the directors more than the VA.
Someone tried to say something about "preventing white saviorism by not letting the player do anything".- banana oil!
The Warrior of Light is doing all the hard work and most of the general heroics. Sure, Wuk Lamat gets the spotlight, but that allows the Warrior of Light to be the Obi-Wan and not get hounded by fans for once.

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Originally Posted by antiabz

It’s permanently damaged my trust in FFXIV to be honest.

Multiple people gave the green light to DT’s MSQ (and the Endwalker post MSQ). They wrote it, checked it, double checked it, and shipped it like this. Did Yoshi not play it first? Did any of them? The change in quality of storytelling was rapid and shockingly obvious, so much so I actually discovered and logged on to these forums for the first time since starting to play to find out what on earth had happened.

I hung around far too long after getting burned by Blizzard, and I swore never to give a company that much goodwill again. FFXIV felt like a breath of fresh air, a development team that actually really cared about the player enjoying themselves, cared about the lore and story.

The expansion was the first time I came looking for these forums. It is the first time the story felt like a slog rather than a joy. The first time I logged off in the middle of the last zone, vowing never to return because I was so annoyed/bored. And it is the last time that I will preorder an FFXIV expansion or play any of the post MSQ patches until I see reviews first and know which way the game is heading.

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Hear, hear. I'm still shocked that the quality could have dropped this much after Endwalker. Sure, the weaknesses were already there and had been for a while, but the good stuff more than made up for it and the characters were in character. Dawntrail feels like the development of the story was outsourced to a third party. It's unbelievable.

It feels extra sour because I too was one of those people who finally left WoW after far too many years. It was the situation Yoshi-P has described: one day I simply stopped complaining, unsubscribed and never went back. The trust finally broke. The trust I had in FFXIV is certainly damaged now, but I came here to add my voice. Also, I still have some silly optimism because it's only been a week and I imagine it's going to take some time to put together a plan and a proper response to all this - like they've done before. However, I've seen these signs before, and this time I won't wait long.

Wuk Lamat's problem is not her VA in any language. It is that she is basically Naruto. Except this version of Naruto never learns from their mistakes, never has to deal with failure in any meaningful way, never grows as a person, and never lets anyone else have even one iota of agency when they are on screen. By the end of the expansion I was literally saying "oh god the group is splitting up again, devs I will pay money if you let me go with someone else or even alone, just not Wuk Lamat." But guess who it was I was forced to pair with 9 out of 10 times, or worse?

This my first time ever logging in and writing a post, even though everything i can say have been said at this point.
So i will say this, in the DT msq wuk lmao has 99% of the dialogue, and yet you could skip everything she has said and still not miss anything, amazing.

AN ALPACA?! SHE'S SUPOSED TO BE DEAD!

When is Wuk Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way going to say "fuk da prepz!"?

If they add the Galka minion the dangerhair localizer will likely use the mistranslation as "canon" (and twelve help if they make the Galka and Hume minions Cornelia and Raogrimm, they'll rewrite and butcher that story cause "uwu can't have icky gross het ships!" )

Will 7.1~ have genders replaced with "type 1 & 2" and blend the male and female voices together?

While I will finish the story on my main (cause might as well as crummy as it is just for completion sake) and write it off as "Eros Grehryss with his black mage staff in hand after getting Miss Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way to become Hokkage because he just thought "Oh what the hell, I'm here now might as well entertain her.", goes on the vacation he's finally been able to, working on his island and inviting Tataru for tea and picnics." and my alt "Athena and her husband Argus join Estinien on his adventures"

I wonder if FFXI will start becoming popular again because of this. (especially if the FFXI raid ends up being lame) And then... 14 shuts down servers before 11 does because some people never learn to never ever give people who hate them and the players and inch.

I really didn't have any issue with Wuk. That said, I found the MSQ very underwhelming this time around. Its my least favorite expansion by a long shot.

Popping in here with my take of the day. I didn't really like her all that much myself and found her tolerable at best, but after reading positive comments and explanations of her character, and looking back on the story and ignoring the voice acting, I think that overall she was actually okay. However, I do think the biggest issues that myself and a lot of other people seem to have hinge on three main things. First, the decision to make her such a massive part of the story... In the end, the entire expansion really does live or die based on how much you like Wuk Lamat. Then that gets compounded by the increased visual novelization of the MSQ itself. On the first day, my friend I was running the story with was getting bored, and pointed out that we're 10 or 15 hours in and we'd only actually used our combat buttons maybe once or twice and that seriously hit me. We'd been going hard all day and we hadn't even really done anything but read. Obviously a lot of reading is expected because it's the story, but... For 15 straight hours in an MMO centered around combat? At the end of the day, we asked ourselves what we'd actually done all day, and all we could say was that we explored some cool new maps, and learned a lot about a character we don't really like.

As for her writing itself, I do feel like the intentions behind Wuk's character arc and overall plot was okay, and I actually did like a lot of the ideas that were presented, but I feel like the execution was incredibly rough and really came down to how much you interpret everything the way the writer intended. I feel like a lot of this comes from the writer's heavy preference or style to "tell" rather than "show." I've noticed that nearly all of the examples that people who enjoy the character point to in terms of her character development are purely things that are told/outright stated, rather than shown or displayed. This results in a situation where it feels like the character isn't "earning" our trust or the development in the way that characters would in other stories or expansions. If Wuk says that she's matured, then she's matured. If Wuk says that she's fixed her confidence issues, then she's fixed her confidence issues. Don't think about it.

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Originally Posted by KylePearlsand

Ishikawa didn't have much say in this beyond potentially a handful of scenes and it really shows when you compare it to Shadowbringers and Endwalker. And the scenes that did well, either it was a fluke or a fleeting stroke of genius. Might just end up going through new game + for those expansions then cancelling the sub. At least until I know there will be a positive future for the game.

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The fact that it's really obvious for everyone what scenes she had a hand is very telling about the rest of the story. It's like taking a breath of fresh air whenever they come up and it feels like I'm actually playing one of my favorite games, FFXIV, again. She is very much missed, I hope they figure out how to bring back the same magic she brings to rest of the story. ;_;

Also I just realized Wuk Lamat is just this meme and sums up why I dislike her:

https://i.imgur.com/6F26QMs.jpeg

People will be like "I am literally going to kill you and everyone you care about" and she's like "let's get to know each other and have a debate about that" ughhh

Just another voice adding the displeasure to the current MSQ. I am not a fan of WL. She feels like a lost, naive child that needs way too much hand holding or guidance, even though she was semi-raised by a warrior father figure, and a handmaiden that seemed relatively intelligent herself. I am not a fan of how it feels to have "Speak to WL" multiple times *in a single quest* when that could have literally been one cutscene that is linked together.

Like many others, by the time I got to a certain point in the MSQ (around the 94 quests), I was just done with listening to her. Anytime I had another CS that was majorly involved about her (which is most of them), I literally got to a point that I just skipped it. I understand the WoL isnt here to be the main story driver this time, but it feels like a bit of a slap to the face that we are effectively disregarded for anything, shoved back behind the orange cat, and given very few response options where its either agreeing with said Cheeto-cat or remaining silent then having someone else *speak for us*.

Right now, due to my sense of completionism, I will finish this MSQ/Expac, just to have it done, but I do not think I will ever feel the same trust I had before in future story lines.

"Pray Return to Weak Lemon" should be the title of every quest past the first. It fits better.

Wuk didn't even have a character arc, which is why I dont get why she talked so much.

Weak Lemon: "I don't want to judge you or your culture."

Even though you all collect, use, reuse, and then deny the souls of the deceased their natural cycle of life, death, and rebirth while the wealthiest and government workers get to horde those souls like money. Idk about the rest of you but my WOL was ready to tear down Solution 9 considering everything that society stood for directly violated everything we learned in Endwalker.

"So, let's be friends!"

Imagine playing HW and running the entire MSQ through Emmanelain, old boy. DT turned the WoL into Honoroit.

Imagine fighting Nidhogg and having Emmanalain hop into a cutscene at 25% health and finish him off....

Such is DT.

Y'know, I was just kinda okay with them until they jumped into the trial. Like really, man? I had like 5 minutes away from you give me a moment's peace.

Finally finished the MSQ and yeah that final trial was capital C Cringe. Going through the trial most of the way and then Wuk Lamat shows up at the end to be stronger than us and finish the boss off to take credit.....

Man can I just be allowed to feel good and like I accomplished something in this game? Apparently Wuk Lamat is now stronger than the WoL since she finished off the final boss solo when we were unable to do it ourselves.
That's not even mentioning the flat performance out of the English VA on that particular duty, wish I went to Japanese voices. She's really incapable of doing any tone other than slightly happy and peppy with that accent and tone. Any amount of emotion and the accent either falls off or the tone is flat and emotionless.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Y'know, I was just kinda okay with them until they jumped into the trial. Like really, man? I had like 5 minutes away from you give me a moment's peace.

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THAT IS EXACTLY IT! Give me some damn peace! I was so sick of seeing WL by the end.. I could not run fast enough in the other direction.

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Originally Posted by EvanescentRayne

Weak Lemon: "I don't want to judge you or your culture."

Even though you all collect, use, reuse, and then deny the souls of the deceased their natural cycle of life, death, and rebirth while the wealthiest and government workers get to horde those souls like money. Idk about the rest of you but my WOL was ready to tear down Solution 9 considering everything that society stood for directly violated everything we learned in Endwalker.

"So, let's be friends!"

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TBH I wanted the WoL to remember shit she actually did before. Paralyzed kid due to aether imbalance? *Linkpearl* "Hey Alisae, rustle up a Porxie!"

Race of immortals that are memories separated from souls and despite what a certain bun has to say, are definitely people? *Linkpearl* "Hey Jammingway, get me in touch with some Omicrons who know about implanting memories into mechanical bodies. The people here managed it, but they can help improve the situation for sure!"

Now don't get me wrong. There were more than a few times I wanted to go on a rampage (and never got to because FeeEEEeeeeLings) but a lot of the problems we faced could've had a peaceful solution if at some point we also didn't undergo a memory wipe.

yall really hating on the dumb blonde big catgirl? wow blondes in this game can't catch a break to save their lives.

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Originally Posted by Karious

Fire Kate while we're at it. She's obviously got her priorities wrong on what's important with the lore and localization.

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At least now people won't get offended from seeing the word "Tribal Quest" since it has been changed to "Allied Society Quest".

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Originally Posted by NiceNox

At least now people won't get offended from seeing the word "Tribal Quest" since it has been changed to "Allied Society Quest".

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I've called them beast tribes for the last ten years. I'm not gonna stop now lmao.

Alright I finally finished MSQ and what a note to end on! lmao @ Wuk/Scions/WoL happily putting a literal child king on a throne and then setting up a foreign picked regent. Sensitivity coaching made the writers emphasize that cowboy duels had nonlethal bullets but somehow a little CIA oopsie slipped through.


the final trial was almost fun until Wuk wasted my solar baha/10

Edit: I’m still laughing. The ending even goes out of its way to say that the people of solution 9 are uneasy with their new “king” and his handler but it’s ok, everything is going to be fine because Wuk loves her nephew so much and family and love and legacy are the cornerstones of a good ruler. It’s what Spleen would have wanted!!! Multiple people signed off on this. Nobody on the dev team sat back and thought “maybe we’re pushing this character a little too much?”

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Originally Posted by Karious

I've called them beast tribes for the last ten years. I'm not gonna stop now lmao.

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The weird thing is, it almost feels like there's a concerted effort to kill the word "tribe". Magic the Gathering changed it to "Kindred" for all the old Tribal cards just about a month or two ago too.
And just like here nobody, barring those who have to bend the knee for money, actually even follows along with the garbage change and keeps to the old name.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Alright I finally finished MSQ and what a note to end on! lmao @ Wuk/Scions/WoL happily putting a literal child king on a throne and then setting up a foreign picked regent. Sensitivity coaching made the writers emphasize that cowboy duels had nonlethal bullets but somehow a little CIA oopsie slipped through.

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FFXIV: Blue Banana Republic

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Originally Posted by Sayo_

Yeah I don't really like how we're forced to go along with her plan.

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....If only I knew how bad things would have gotten.

End Trial of Endwalker: *all Scions start praying for the WoL to be protected from harm and causes a huge Tank LB 3 to protect said WoL*


End of Dawntrailer: ... no one asked for a huge kitty to come save the WoL.. Breaks through interdimensional VR Reality by her self and single handedly stops a major attack from a bad guy...*


*looks over the two* ... endwalker did it better and made it look more believeable than this new crap we were served by a mary suesque character

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Originally Posted by EusisLandale

The weird thing is, it almost feels like there's a concerted effort to kill the word "tribe". Magic the Gathering changed it to "Kindred" for all the old Tribal cards just about a month or two ago too.
And just like here nobody, barring those who have to bend the knee for money, actually even follows along with the garbage change and keeps to the old name.

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The name change never made sense to me. Everyone I know still calls them beast tribes and tribal quests. We have a game with many heavy and dark themes, yet they draw the line at the word "tribe"?

Part of the reason that Dwarves were chosen as one of the beast tribes for ShB was to highlight just how differently the First saw the Lalafells, that they considered them beastly and inhuman. By changing it to "Allied Society" the distinction is lost and the racism of the First, instead of being highlighted as something wrong, is now masked and hidden with a nicer name to it to make it seem less evil.

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Originally Posted by NiceNox

At least now people won't get offended from seeing the word "Tribal Quest" since it has been changed to "Allied Society Quest".

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When I saw this in the patch notes, I knew FFXIV is over. They have given into the woke nonsense and the game is going to go into decline from here.

sPEeN LIsTeN tO mE!!!

Lol I haven't gotten to the end yet but are you joking? The "I killed the universe ending threat the Endsinger" WoL can't beat whatever the last boss of the expansion is (most likely a glorified AI) but Wuk Lamat can single-handedly? Seriously whoever the main plot writer for this expansion was.... fire them. From a main plot perspective this is legit the worst FF14 expansion, ARR is better than this.

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Originally Posted by Karkarov

Lol I haven't gotten to the end yet but are you joking? The "I killed the universe ending threat the Endsinger" WoL can't beat whatever the last boss of the expansion is (most likely a glorified AI) but Wuk Lamat can single-handedly? Seriously whoever the main plot writer for this expansion was.... fire them. From a main plot perspective this is legit the worst FF14 expansion, ARR is better than this.

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Don't forget your Dawn's Resolve buff where you're inspired by Wookie and are breaking your mortal limits. Somehow she's more powerful than dynamis.

Finally reached Solution 9 and while I really disliked the general story before (and Wuk Lamat by proxy) . . . I absolutely cannot stand her now (though the story has gotten moderately more interesting).

When we're asked if she can explore with us in Solution 9 I was praying for a choice with a snarky option but we just nod with a smile . . .

I know SE isn't keen on killing off characters any more but I would be filled with such joy if she was removed from the game now and forever more.

This threads title is spot on, she really does ruin an already awful story.

The way they paint her as some sort of genius tactician for pointing out the most obvious stuff in the second half too is just disgustingly stupid. Meanwhile everyone else around her acts like idiots as if we didn't spend the better part of a decade adventuring together and have IMMENSLEY more life experience than someone who, to their own admission, BARELY KNOWS HER OWN PEOPLE AS SHE NEVER REALLY WONDERED OUTSIDE THE MAIN CITY.

If they ended the MSQ for 7.0 with "and it was all just a nightmare" I wouldn't even be mad.