Realm Reborn = downgrade?

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Originally Posted by Volfield

I'm being hopeful.

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Being hopeful while being determined that what we've seen is the worst possible scenario? Contradictory much?

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

Requisite Research
Thread has slowly turned into a divided community based on actions of concern, pride, defence, malice, ignorance, and unfortunately, rage. Based on topic of discussion, major cause of such comments is believed to have stemmed from the visuals of gameplay and live footage of various events.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

Introduction
The concern of the graphical grade of the visuals have resulted in a at the same time, fierce, entertaining, unwanted and rude argument between various factions of the community. There are legitimate concerns, and yet, there is also the ignorance of such concerns and the ultimate consequence they will have on the game. There is also malice and malevolence of several accusations towards the developers for their apparent lack of detail, promises, and twisting of various information to manipulate opinions and further arguments.

Materials

• Thread
• Personnel
• Opinions

Hypothesis
There will be a significant amount of ignorance or blind attitude between the two warring factions. Middle ground faction capable of discussing the topic without feeling the need for hyperbolic representations or saturated negativity have grown tired of the two warring factions, and thus proceed to use irritated mannerisms to approach the topic of discussion.

Development
There shall be names assigned to the three main factions displayed within this topic. Those who attack blindly/with malice, shall be named the Accusation Alliance. Those who defend blindly/with ignorance, shall be named the Defence Brigade. Those who wish for discussion and answers, shall be named the Irritated Entourage. Please refer to the abbreviations as shown via capital letters.

We shall first examine the general opinions before going into specifics the details of each faction.

There is the opening; concern on the animation quality of the game. This is by all means a perfectly acceptable concern - it provides a critical analysis of the visuals and information supplied to us via official sources and other areas of acclaimed presence.

There is nothing wrong with voicing legitimate concerns especially if it will aid in the further development of our much cherished game. Voicing our displeasure for certain elements before they are finalised will ensure that the enjoyment of the final product is reached. Critical criticism should be taken note of, and improved by, the development team; it is thus their duty to listen and pay attention to these small objects of concern.

To counteract the above opinion - the timing of such a concern. We are seeing pre-Alpha footage; finalisation has not begun, succinct and well-fleshed details have not been provided; the game in any form has not been playable by any member of the public as of now.

Change will occur. The game is not finalised, and it is still in its very early form of finalisation - many changes will occur with or without our input. The timing is not right - until the development of the game has reached a stage where such a concern will be legitimate in its undertaking, the concern should merely be a comment by which to track the development process of the game through it's next few finalisation phases.

The IE faction recognises the above, and is able to employ a lively discussion without resorting to the poor communication skills utilised by the other two factions. Unfortunately, those two contributing factions have soured the mood of IE, and thus, they have upheld a far more irritated mannerisms and attitude as the topic continues.

The AA faction seems to enjoy bringing out every single wrongdoing the development team has done (or not done). Trudging up historic events left better to dust, twisting information into barbs to attack the developers, using harsh hyperbolic phrases and confrontations to negatively offset other users of the topic. You have not bothered to give SE a chance, accussing the developers, riling against the developers; your attitude gives off the notion that the development team is at your every whim and call, like a dog, and by missing out on one negligible detail, they have dealt your first born the ultimate insult of disgrace.

Analogy - you are the brutal husband who slapped your wife for missing an ingredient on a shopping list, knowing full well that she is only halfway through shopping, and merely came to report on you. You don't give her a chance to explain before spreading rumours about her, even as she is shopping.

The DB faction seems awfully blind to the fact that the developers have in fact made mistakes, and that it is us as players to recognise those wrongdoings and present to the development team so they take such feedback into account. Refusing to admit past results, praising only the items of high evaluation, you do not try to accept change, you do not try to adapt to the fact that everything can be done differently, and not everything is set in stone. There will always be room for improvement, and yet you do not seem to understand this, believing onlyin the best.

Analogy - you are the blind follower of a politician who believes they know best for a country, but have made mistakes that will cost a fortune to repair. You develop propaganda, ignoring all that is wrong, and insist that the word of your politician is absolute.

Results
What is at first a topic for concern about a legitimate issue has instead turned the community into a three headed beast, each vying for attention in its own way. The level of ignorance, wrongly assumed knowledge, underlying tactics and pure blindness is the cause of these many controversies; it is ultimately not the developer's fault, but us, as the players, for subjecting ourselves to such useless concepts.

Conclusion
The players themselves have given into impatience, and it thus has a direct correlation towards Square Enix for their lack of detail. Information that could be provided:

• Specs of platform on which visuals were displayed
• Current settings of the visuals
• Latency or lack of
• Server side known issues
• Specific control variants and performance charts

It is also our duty as a community to support the development team. This means not just praises, but constructive feedback, legitimate concerns on timing, appropriate queries to answers that can be provided. Demands and accussation, blindness and ignorance are not support and infringe on the development team to provide a satisfying product for us to enjoy.

~

REPORT SUBJECT TO CHANGE AS MORE DETAILS AND DATA IS OBTAINED.

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Like your statement :)

back to topic thou. Hmmmmmm nothing to talk about.. i already voice my opinion and hope for the best. :]

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

You didn't even entertain the possibility that maybe they haven't finished.

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Like Gramul said a couple of pages behind:
Movement and camera are one of the fundamental basics of any MMO, hell, any game involving 3D.

In the presentation, they focused alot on the UI, which i love. The UI, the concept, the colors, everything, the UI is amazing, they could slap the UI on this version and call it 2.0 and i'd be happy. But that's besides the point.

The point is, they're showing a pre-alpha build weeks-months away from making the alpha public and we're shown a huge downgraded, almost embaressing movement component of an engine that is completely diferent from the one we're used to.
They didn't give any information regarding said movement/camera engine, that is, to me atleast, alarming.
You'd expect at this point they'd tell us if that god-awful strafing system is toggeable or not. (Atleast that, let alone finishing it.)

At this point, i'm more shocked than you that people still try to defend everything about 2.0 as if it was the second coming of jesus.

The current character movement and animation is something I love bout XIV and loved in XI, it feels like the character is really there in the world, has weight and it feels unique. I havnt seen any other MMO have such character animation and its what makes FFXI / XIV special to me.
After watching the presentation I was disappointed to see the lack of character animation, it turns on a dime like any other MMO.

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Originally Posted by Volfield

Like Gramul said a couple of pages behind:
Movement and camera are one of the fundamental basics of any MMO, hell, any game involving 3D.

In the presentation, they focused alot on the UI, which i love. The UI, the concept, the colors, everything, the UI is amazing, they could slap the UI on this version and call it 2.0 and i'd be happy. But that's besides the point.

The point is, they're showing a pre-alpha build weeks-months away from making the alpha public and we're shown a huge downgraded, almost embaressing movement component of an engine that is completely diferent from the one we're used to.
They didn't give any information regarding said movement/camera engine, that is, to me atleast, alarming.
You'd expect at this point they'd tell us if that god-awful strafing system is toggeable or not. (Atleast that, let alone finishing it.)

At this point, i'm more shocked than you that people still try to defend everything about 2.0 as if it was the second coming of jesus.

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She may defend SE and will even fight against what Yoshi himself will say, but no one can argue that unlike XIV 1.0 where they should have built off of XI, ARR had XIV 1.0 to build off of, yet there's apparent downgrades. ARR Alpha shouldn't in any shape or form be a downgrade to XIV 1.0 at all.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Being hopeful while being determined that what we've seen is the worst possible scenario? Contradictory much?

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Maybe, yes.

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Movement and camera are one of the fundamental basics of any MMO, hell, any game involving 3D.

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How about any game, period. Kinda hard to play when you can't see anything and can't move.

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The point is, they're showing a pre-alpha build weeks-months away from making the alpha public and we're shown a huge downgraded, almost embaressing movement component of an engine that is completely diferent from the one we're used to.

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But a lot can happen in a month. And it could be two or three months since Alpha is being released "this fall" and winter usually Decemberish. They're rebuilding the game. They're not going to use movement from 1.0 because movement and animation was one of the game's biggest flaws.

It's not that 2.0 is going to be the best game ever from Alpha day one, but I have no reason to doubt that 1.0 wasn't all that peachy either. 1.0 was a set back for Square, and 2.0 is supposed to be the "redemption". So forgive me for daring to give them at least the benefit of a doubt.

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ARR Alpha shouldn't in any shape or form be a downgrade to XIV 1.0 at all.

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Exactly. To paraphrase YoshiP: Why rebuild a game for lower quality? It makes no sense.

I apply this reasoning to movement as well.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

She may defend SE and will even fight against what Yoshi himself will say, but no one can argue that unlike XIV 1.0 where they should have built off of XI, ARR had XIV 1.0 to build off of, yet there's apparent downgrades. ARR Alpha shouldn't in any shape or form be a downgrade to XIV 1.0 at all.

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Thank you. This ^
And since this is turning into a "Blasphemy, u dun berief in grorious deverupur, 2.0 shall cur cancer, die infidel!1" Kind of thread:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...read-eject.jpg

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Originally Posted by Volfield

huge downgraded, almost embaressing movement component of an engine that is completely diferent from the one we're used to.

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Different ≠ bad.

Volfield has his review for the game written up already and ready to post on Kotaku.