Healers need an overhaul

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

the healers are the backbone of any challenging content. If you revamp them you need to revamp a lot more than just 4 classes. Again I say, I simply don't see the demand for it to be worth so much work and time sunk into it. Feel free to prove me, and more importantly square, wrong.

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As you say, ultimately SE will either modify healer design, or it won't. I imagine it can take many things into consider, such as people who cancel and provide their feedback, or people who like the changes in PVP, or who knows, maybe they'll hire a healer designer.

One thing I certainly do hope is that people who main healers are given a say into future changes and that those people consider that, as well as those people who actually have access into the actual effort cost analysis - since none of us aside from SE really know that.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

P1S and P2S have been cleared without healers, so there's currently only 3 fights in EW that can't be done without healers lol

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Can't they just increase tankbuster damage or something for that tho?

As I honestly don't think you've done any research at all on this topic I'm done. Have a look at the thread I've linked, there's no point in rehashing all of that with you.

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

Square balances around endgame content tho

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They absolutely do not.
We have more statements where they talk about balancing the jobs around the lowest common denominators of player skill than they do saying anything related to needing to balance around endgame content. And if you need more proof to that front, the recent (upsetting) changes to SAM and NIN prove that, while they have to think about end-game content because it is content that they are releasing, they are most certainly not going to consider balancing the game for high-end content before they consider balancing it for the skill-floor.

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Replace one critical part of a machine and you got a bigger problem on your hands. I'm afraif that if Square is actually gonna do something so drastic then you need more than a thread and some thumbs up. How about solliciting practical examples with demonstrated cases of your points for instance? That might get them to at least look.

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We have videos all over the place of no-healer runs of various current/end-game encounters, and we constantly talk about them. They even talked about it during the famous "go play ultimate and suffer" live letter.
Believe me, they know. They're just arrogant enough to be able to make stupid statements like "go play ultimate" because they know they'll get away with it since the white knights get even more whitey and knighty as long as Yoshi-P will tolerate their incessant fangasming and entertain their inane questions.

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Can't they just increase tankbuster damage or something for that tho?

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No, they can't. Because that would increase the outgoing damage, which is something they do not want to do because it would be too much pressure on newer (less-skilled) healers. They've already gone on record and said this, too.

Well shit, feel free to draw up an entire new system for healers then and submit it to their inbox, complete with how it would affect tanks, dps, and over all difficulty of every encounter in the game. You'll probably have a lot of fun because coming up with something that works is not easy. Well, not my problem, I'm a dps, just wanted to pitch in my 2 cents, have fun

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

Can't they just increase tankbuster damage or something for that tho?

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"Can't they just put one thing into an encounter that makes healers necessary or something so they finally shut up and feel important? Give them something to heal every 3min or something"

Do you even know how infrequent tankbusters are in savage? And how easy it is to cheese the majority of them with invuln regardless of tank comp?
And do you know bad it feels to have an arbitrary invisible "targets both healers" mechanic that make healers necessary for no other reason than to have a target marker for a single mechanic? Because that's why some fights have never been done without a healer. SE saw fit to enforce a double healer comp with a single mechanic that would wipe the whole group in most cases and the rest of the encounter a single healer, let alone TWO weren't even needed.
Yes, I'm looking at you, e9s and e11s.

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

Well shit, feel free to draw up an entire new system for healers then and submit it to their inbox, complete with how it would affect tanks, dps, and over all difficulty of every encounter in the game. You'll probably have a lot of fun because coming up with something that works is not easy. Well, not my problem, I'm a dps, just wanted to pitch in my 2 cents, have fun

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Oh, sure.
Because the players, the paying costumers, should do all the work so they have something slightly better than shitty gameplay for an entire role.
MSQ is horrible to play on healer because you mash 111111 ad nauseum. Casual content becomes repetetive and boring extremely quickly because the outgoing damage is incredibly low and dps and tanks all have gotten plenty of mitigation and selfheal. Aglaia is a perfect example: first week you had deaths and vuln stacks all over the place. But now, a week later, you suddenly notice how incredbily infrequent damage is in these encounters. The last boss is the only boss that has regular raidwides in addition to plenty of mechanics where you can easily eat vuln stacks. But th 1st? I've gone the entire fight with only pressing Assize and my co heal doing the same and we were golden. A few Lilies for movement, not for healing, that's it. 2nd boss? Same. 3rd boss? Yup, same. Last boss? Oh, finally, I got to use a Lily for healing.
With a random healer by the way. Not some super uber skilled world first static healer team. Let that sink in.
And Ex/ Savage/ Ultimate? I have more casts on my nuke than all other oGCDs and GCDs combined. First week. In crafted gear. No, not full BiS and in a coordinated reclear.
Want to know how that would feel on RDM? Well, imagin you'd press only Jolt for the majority of time and every 30s or so you'd get to use a single proc. Wouldn't that be exciting?

You're a dps.
Your entire role was designed to have fun in all types of content, from the first low level solo duty to ultimate. With all types of parties, from the chaos murder clownfiesta to coordinated groups that steamroll everything. Count your blessings but don't assume every role has it as good as yours and look down on them for daring to voice concerns and criticism.

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

Well shit, feel free to draw up an entire new system for healers then and submit it to their inbox, complete with how it would affect tanks, dps, and over all difficulty of every encounter in the game. You'll probably have a lot of fun because coming up with something that works is not easy. Well, not my problem, I'm a dps, just wanted to pitch in my 2 cents, have fun

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Glad to see the know-nothing-and-can't-be-bothered portion of the community came to offer their 2-cents for another bucket, only to try and piss in ours and get offended when they're not allowed to. It lets a girl have fun, like we wanna, unlike healer gameplay today.
Which needs an overhaul.

Well yeah, sorry for coming here and asking this angry echo chamber to have something that actually can replace the system for the entire game before the scream it has to go NOW. Common sense is dead I guess, but keep being mad.

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

Well yeah, sorry for coming here and asking this angry echo chamber to have something that actually can replace the system for the entire game before the scream it has to go NOW. Common sense is dead I guess, but keep being mad.

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Common sense is indeed dead if you think it is the player's responsibility to submit a fully fleshed out concept.
If you had bothered to read any of the threads you'd notice that there are countless suggestions - it is SE's job as the company behind this game to acknowledge the feedback and see what can be done to implement changes that would improve the gameplay. We can offer feedback, suggestions, criticism and even just complaints that make clear that the status quo is not to our liking.
But coding, balancing and fleshing out concepts is not our job - or did your precious role all submit the individual gameplay concepts? No? Well, surprise! It looks like SE IS capable od designing engaging gameplay for a lot of classes.

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

Common sense is dead I guess

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It died for your sins.

But if you're really curious about the ways that engagement for healers can be increased, without necessarily ruining the game for the skill floor (and therefore not having to revamp the system), take some time to read various other threads and posts in the forums, etc. Ideas have been thrown about every which way that wouldn't necessarily have to interfere with the integrity of the game and, if you read the ones that would interfere with it, generally have good talking points about why it would and how to prevent that.

Otherwise, if you were here just to shit all over the place and be allowed to pretend that you care when you don't, I invite you, instead, to twitter, where all sorts of folks, of all ages, go to pretend that they care and get treated like they really mean it.