Mods and cheat engine

I like how it's mainly catgirls and lizardgirls who get mad when people talk about finding countermeasures to their hacked chairsit and doze emotes.

you're saying this as a miera, who've had the hottest takes on the OF by a far margin lately...

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I understand maybe for some people this isn't helpful. I said it in the other thread but for sake of this one too.

This concept DOES help me, when I played WoW DBM (and other like tools) made me a better player while also having to give less effort (meaning technically more could be expected without going out of the comfort zone).

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The primary difference is that World of Warcraft's approach to encounter design evolved over the years to reflect the proliferation of addons like DBM, which the developers fully support through their API.

FFXIV on the other hand is not designed with these addons in mind, provides no official support for them, and actively encourages players not to use them under threat of a ban.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I understand maybe for some people this isn't helpful. I said it in the other thread but for sake of this one too.

This concept DOES help me, when I played WoW DBM (and other like tools) made me a better player while also having to give less effort (meaning technically more could be expected without going out of the comfort zone).

Maybe for some it's not that useful or is similar to reading a guide, from my personal perspective it will make some players better while also making them have to work less hard.

I think that is substantial, I'm not really calling a ban for it-- I just want the conversation to be more honest. I feel some are exaggerating the evils of some of the more popular tools and others are acting like they do nothing at all. Neither of those seem right to me. If you're playing better in my group because of this tool... that's nice for me lol, but experience from WoW I say that the tool discussed would absolutely allow me to play better with less info. I'd respond faster, more accurately, and more consistently. IE, better. Which 'could' have an impact on how hard SE thinks they need to make stuff, or make people asking for harder things because they've a tool helping them... and if they want it harder it's a bit weird given they're having Navi whisper in their ear on how to play best while other players don't get that.

It wouldn't bother me if the tool was baked right into the game official, but I do strongly believe the tool has an impact on some players presented skill levels and may also likely have an actual indirect impact on the devs (though it is of course important to note some people are so into playing good that the tool is useless, you know those people who call out the entire raid while also playing perfectly). Of course if you don't have the agility for the responsive nature then having more info probably wont help lol, also as people know- can have an expert call out player but if people don't actually listen it wont help.. So it's not a magic bullet, but I'd at least call it a solid modifier for many people (x2 to output, so long as your output isn't 0, and you're not already well beyond and above requirements-- can be very useful).

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I feel like the bottom line with Cactbot is that if it's using packet reading to provide players with information faster then the game itself does normally (Generally via reading hidden casts from entities that don't show up on your enmity list or in your combat log or isolating which variant of an ambiguous mechanic like Optical Sight is being used before the tell actually appears), that's kind of indefensibly cheating.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I feel like the bottom line with Cactbot is that if it's using packet reading to provide players with information faster then the game itself does normally (Generally via reading hidden casts from entities that don't show up on your enmity list or in your combat log or isolating which variant of an ambiguous mechanic like Optical Sight is being used before the tell actually appears), that's kind of indefensibly cheating.

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I think if it's not causing any problems, and people find it useful thats fine. I think players should learn to play with out these tools as it is more fun. But if it does make your game experience better go for it but be aware it is against ToS so don't talk about using it.
Players that are against it need to grow up. It does not harm you, until some one says you need cactpot or x mod to join this group, it is not an issue. Since there is a huge amount of people that want to tattle tell on every player for the most petty reasons, and because it is against the ToS, it likely will not become an issue. If is not your job to enforce the ToS it is SE's job. Glad some of you out there like to work for free.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

because it is against the ToS

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That’s all that needs to be said. There are reasons behind rules

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

I think if it's not causing any problems, and people find it useful thats fine. I think players should learn to play with out these tools as it is more fun. But if it does make your game experience better go for it but be aware it is against ToS so don't talk about using it.
Players that are against it need to grow up. It does not harm you, until some one says you need cactpot or x mod to join this group, it is not an issue. Since there is a huge amount of people that want to tattle tell on every player for the most petty reasons, and because it is against the ToS, it likely will not become an issue. If is not your job to enforce the ToS it is SE's job. Glad some of you out there like to work for free.

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The argument of "it doesn't affect you, therefore you shouldn't care" is subjective.

Some people don't like the value of difficult/prestigious achievements being cheapened by people cheating using bots and other third party programs and telling them to "grow up" is about as immature as you're insinuating they are for disliking it.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

That’s all that needs to be said. There are reasons behind rules

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It is still illegal to spit on the side walk in SC. It is still a law that you can be hung for stealing a horse.
It is still legal to beat your wife in front of a church on a Sunday with a stick no thicker than your thumb.
Thats nice, its part of ToS, there are also of laws the exist that aren't enforced today too.. But people move on and ignore it.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The argument of "it doesn't affect you, therefore you shouldn't care" is subjective.

Some people don't like the value of difficult/prestigious achievements being cheapened by people cheating using bots and other third party programs and telling them to "grow up" is about as immature as you're insinuating they are for disliking it.

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I think you should grow up, it's a video game and you aren't world first. And if you were world first, these mods would not be assisting you as they are not up to date at the time of release.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Blah blah

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As I said, rules exist for a reason. I personally believe everyone should be playing on an equal and fair field. These mods and add-ons don’t allow for the that. Keep defending them all you want but you yourself admitted they are bad with the justification of: doesn’t effect you, grow up, not your job.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

As I said, rules exist for a reason. I personally believe everyone should be playing on an equal and fair field. These mods and add-ons don’t allow for the that. Keep defending them all you want but you yourself admitted they are bad with the justification of: doesn’t effect you, grow up, not your job.

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I never said they were bad. I said x was more fun than y. As far as it's usage, I don't care it does not affect me. And if a party requires cactbot I likely won't join like if a party requires x dps. From my experience the worst players rely on crutches. The more limited the party the more it means you are looking for carry. Play the game the way you chose, don't let others control the way you play.