New Jobs Gated Behind Completion of 2.0 Story?

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I am not opposed to gating the new jobs, but those gates should be no sterner than the gates behind our current jobs. Ideally, you should be able to access the new jobs at level 10, the same time we can access new classes. Level 30 would also be an acceptible gate, if we're going to semantically insist that since they're called "jobs" they should be accessible no earlier than existing jobs. Access at level 50... iffy, but not too bad; it's not hard to level a job to 50, but it's difficult to come up with a rationale for this restriction.

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35 makes sense. I think it's roughly equivalent XP wise to the XP required for the 30/15 split required for traditional jobs and has the benefit of being the level you start adventuring around Coerthas. It wouldn't be hard to slot in a quest where you get a pass to enter from one of the Ishgardians you help out around the area.

If you were to compare it to ffxi, it would be like getting to level 75 and completing the rank 10 quest, in order to unlock ninja. Since you would have to be item level 90 and complete all of 2.0-2.55 story quest to unlock the new jobs.

I really don't think they will do it this way personally. It would be a huge mistake if they did, something like one of Tanaka's design decisions.

Lazy players complain about content gated behind a dragon fight that's "too hard" (which many ppl have beat) > SE nerfs dragon fight (which was easy for Pty with proper communication) and removes gated content (which was tied to lore) > RMT gains access to new high lvl areas and continues to devalue the game further by botting new resources and oversaturating the market on every server > lazy players complain vanity items + everything else on market is too expensive...

Ahh the circle of life, working as intended

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

If you were to compare it to ffxi, it would be like getting to level 75 and completing the rank 10 quest, in order to unlock ninja. Since you would have to be item level 90 and complete all of 2.0-2.55 story quest to unlock the new jobs.

I really don't think they will do it this way personally. It would be a huge mistake if they did, something like one of Tanaka's design decisions.

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Not

Even

Close.

Rank 10 was required for nothing. Rank 5 was where the nation stories and the main stories split. Zilart was more applicable to the main story than rank 6-10.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

If you were to compare it to ffxi, it would be like getting to level 75 and completing the rank 10 quest, in order to unlock ninja. Since you would have to be item level 90 and complete all of 2.0-2.55 story quest to unlock the new jobs.

I really don't think they will do it this way personally. It would be a huge mistake if they did, something like one of Tanaka's design decisions.

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That isn't even kinda close. It takes much more time to level a job to 30 and get rank 5 in FFXI (actual gate to get new jobs in that game) then it does to get to 50 and MSQ done in FFXIV. You are way overestimating how hard it is to get those done. This is a story focused game, it will likely stay that way. If a new player doesn't like that aspect of it they aren't going to be sticking around anyway.

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Originally Posted by Ayrie

Because FFXI is a paragon for new player experience.

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I would never suggest such a thing. Just about all things in FFXI featured grinds that would put this game to shame - but the same can be said for a lot of earlier MMO's. It was just the style of the time. In relative terms, leveling to 30 is the FFXI equivalent of an "easy" task like leveling to 30 is in FFXIV.

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Heck, even getting to 30 the first time for a player was a massive chore.

Then getting to rank 5, arguably harder the getting leveled.

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Getting to rank 5 was not required to unlock any of the new jobs, and it did not prevent exploring the new areas. You could get an Airship pass to Norg at rank 1 - and many did.

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Then getting to Norg and doing the ninja quest... or fighting the nm for the job unlock quest.

It wasn't just getting to level 30 and magically the problems were over.

Don't let people think that. It is very unfair.

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Again, speaking in relative terms of what was considered easy in FFXI, where you could pretty much do jack-all unless you had a party to do it with, unlocking NIN at level 30 was weaksauce easy. It IS fair to compare the two games in this manner, rather than directly comparing number of hours spent working on the task (which, for FFXI, will pretty much always blow anything in FFXIV away in its absurdity).

Just because FFXI was a soul-scarring grindfest doesn't mean that it did not have its share of GOOD ideas, or that everything it did was a horrible mistake which should never be repeated.

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If this is the rule 3 expansions from now there may be a problem.

Forcing someone to complete the base game before expanded content isn't exactly a new concept... Perhaps you'd like to refer to the definition of expansion.

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You can dig up whatever definition of expansion you like. The fact remains that if an easily tapped customer base isn't being reached, then the expansion isn't reaching its potential. If there are players who are JUSTIFIABLY not buying the expansion on release because it offers them nothing, who then play the game a while and decide it's not for them, then they never buy the expansion at all. If the expansion DOES offer them something, though, then they may buy the set regardless of whether they stick with the game or not. Right now, SE has offered nothing I can see to entice players who don't ALREADY PLAY the game to buy the expansion.

For new players they are offering a base game plus expansion combo pack for a much greater price than the cost of just the base game - but no new player with an ounce of sense would buy such a thing when they can get just the vanilla game for cheap, try it out, and buy the expansion later if they enjoy it. On the other hand, if the expansion were to offer things that are NOT locked behind base game progress, the temptation to buy the expansion along with the base game will be much greater.

I will admit that I'm not an advertising executive, but is the math really that difficult to understand? Expansion offers nothing to newbies = less newbies buy the product. Less newbies buy the product = less money. Less money = less money to spend making the game awesome for current players.

Folks in this thread need to step out of their shoes for a moment, set aside the "I had to work hard to be ready for the expansion, and I want it ALL to be JUST for people who've worked as hard as me!" and understand that I and like-minded are NOT suggesting we hand everything to them on a silver platter. We're suggesting we hand them SOMETHING on ANY kind of platter. It has to be something that they might WANT to have, that will entice them to spend money that they otherwise would not.

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Originally Posted by Mistoltin

Because why just get Expansion sales when you can force people to grind through the entire story and rake in that sub-money.

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Sub money? You can complete the story line in less than a month. Even for a newbie. It doesn't take that much really.

Battle content for Heavensward will be released in the LIVE LftP in April. Let's wait for that before burning SE's offices down.

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Originally Posted by Ayrie

Not

Even

Close.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

That isn't even kinda close.

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Perhaps you are thinking of old FFXI, but I assure you that Whocareswhatmynameis is right about the pace when looking at how FFXI is now. I still play the game, and just yesterday got my Ranger from 18 to 52 in a five hours session, doing nothing but killing Even Match / Tough / Very Tough monsters with EXP ring on and my three Trusts. I could've been faster if I had been using Ground of Valor / Field of Valor and Records of Eminence bonuses, but I was being lazy. And even faster would it be if I had gone to Abyssea at lv30 to leech exp. People hit 75 in one day if they are dedicated. 99 too in the most crazy cases (I prefer to raise my skills as I go up, so I go slower.).

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

Perhaps you are thinking of old FFXI, but I assure you that Whocareswhatmynameis is right about the pace when looking at how FFXI is now. I still play the game, and just yesterday got my Ranger from 18 to 52 in a five hours session, doing nothing but killing Even Match / Tough / Very Tough monsters with EXP ring on and my three Trusts. I could've been faster if I had been using Ground of Valor / Field of Valor and Records of Eminence bonuses, but I was being lazy. And even faster would it be if I had gone to Abyssea at lv30 to leech exp. People hit 75 in one day if they are dedicated. 99 too in the most crazy cases (I prefer to raise my skills as I go up, so I go slower.).

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That is now with many nerfs. At the time when the expansions ToA, CoP, and WotG came out leveling was a massive chore. Yet I never heard any similar complaints from newbies.

This is a subscription model, selling new players on the longevity of the game is more profitable for SE then just trying to sell a shiny expansion. The biggest plus of XIV vs other MMOs IMO is the dedication to story.

And to another post above, nobody is trying to be elitist and say new players shouldn't get access because "I had to work hard for this". First off all MSQ is not difficult to achieve at all. The story progression I feel is important to the game. To just throw it out the window and have new players skip to the end just cheapens the experience for them IMO. All new players are different. Some may want to skip to the end right away, some wont. I would rather hear what they say then having everyone try to assume what a new player wants.