SE needs to do more to help bad players

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Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

I am all for that. Let's do it.

It will almost be like before the days of these cross sever team up dungeon finders. Only, instead of having to have a webpage or participate in a non-offical forum to give the illusion of "PF", FF14 actually has PF.

You know what came with those forms of party creation (game provided PF and using websites/forums)? Player created Blacklists. We don't bother to track people on Blacklists now because it isn't worth the effort with DF and DRs. Since the game does the work and makes the parties for me, there's no reason to try to Blacklist someone who doesn't exist to me after the event is done.

But, if I have to make my own group for everything and every-time, you bet I am making a blacklist and sharing it with my FC. I wouldn't be the only person doing it. This practice was done in FFXI and WoW.

So, there's the tradeoff: remove DR and lose the privileges that DR brings (anonymity), or go just PF and lose those privileges.

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I have a few friends that would agree with you.

I just don't think its that bad in all honesty. Everyone on both sides are kinda blowing the situation out of proportions.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Here's the best solution:

Remove Duty Finder.

Never again will you have to suffer grouping with someone you don't wish to.
Never again will you have to worry about healers not DPSing if you want them to.
Never again will you have to worry about DPS not AoEing when there is more than 3+ mobs.
Never again will you have to worry about people not learning mechanics.
Never again will you have to suffer the newbie that hadn't got the fight down.

You will get the perfect group, every time. Why? Because you pre selected it yourself.

Oh wait. We can already do that, by actually premaking our groups. Maybe you all ought to do that so you don't have so many of these issues. Player created problems have player created solutions. This is always true. And its true here.

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These problems aren't specific to the DF.

Nobody says every bad player has to turn into elitists and know their rotations perfectly. It is totally fine if they screw up their rotations, its also fine if they keep dying to new mechanics. But at least they will learn how to play their job, their role respectively. Learning your rotation and seeing those numbers can feel rewarding and also prepare you for endgame content. Extreme Primals, Savage raids, Normal raids even (with current low iLVL).
Implying that they wont have fun just because they had to get better at DPS is a joke.

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Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

I am all for that. Let's do it.

It will almost be like before the days of these cross sever team up dungeon finders. Only, instead of having to have a webpage or participate in a non-offical forum to give the illusion of "PF", FF14 actually has PF.

You know what came with those forms of party creation (game provided PF and using websites/forums)? Player created Blacklists. We don't bother to track people on Blacklists now because it isn't worth the effort with DF and DRs. Since the game does the work and makes the parties for me, there's no reason to try to Blacklist someone who doesn't exist to me after the event is done.

But, if I have to make my own group for everything and every-time, you bet I am making a blacklist and sharing it with my FC. I wouldn't be the only person doing it. This practice was done in FFXI and WoW.

So, there's the tradeoff: remove DR and lose the privileges that DR brings (anonymity), or go just PF and lose those privileges.

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Yep. Let's do it. Also make it if you're in any of the group's blacklist (or you have ANY of the group members blacklist) and try to join, it fails to join. Also, increase blacklist limit to 1'000'000'000 characters. And make it so you can broadcast a player to blacklist and get them automatically added to all your friend list's blacklists too, as well as all LS and FC members' blacklists. I'm deadly serious about that. Watch how quickly the bad players get locked out of content doing that.

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Originally Posted by Makrar

If you want every healer to dps during down time then the game needs to change to mandate that.

For example: The healing mana costs across the board are increased slightly and the single target casted DPS nukes RESTORE mana instead of costing mana = healers need to DPS during down time in order to manage their mana.

Unless the above happens, the majority of healers are just not going to DPS as nothing in the game tells you to play that way outside of the community.

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But the game is already designed with plenty of room for healers to DPS

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

These problems aren't specific to the DF.

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Yes they are.

A good group leader won't have this issue in PF. If your group stinks from PF its because the leader failed.

We gonna have a leadership tutorial now?

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Originally Posted by Krojack

To be fair, guildhests which are designed to teach people various game mechanics aren't required. I was already level 60 and wanted to unlock mentor and found out I had only completed half of the guildhests available.

They could start by making those required content as you're leveling up. They are short and quick so it shouldn't bother anyone. They should also make people buying a level 60 level boost on a job role they don't already have to 60 to go back and do all the guildhests as well. I've had those boosted tanks not turn on their tank stance or that Paladin not know about Flash (when it was in the game) to pickup groups of mobs.

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Guildhest were required for the main story Quest at one point, I believe they were removed in heavensward, maybe 3.1...




Regarding healer DPS...
The debate is not about dps, it's about being idle.

Dps only comes in to the discussion when we consider what can be done instead of being idle.

Every player should be expected to attempt to use a beneficial skill every time the gcd rolls around.

Exactly which skills are dependant on the class and encounter design from the devs.



Stop arguing for healers to not have to dps, argue for other things to do during downtime if people are so against using damage skills.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Yes they are.

A good group leader won't have this issue in PF. If your group stinks from PF its because the leader failed.

We gonna have a leadership tutorial now?

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You really think people who got fed clears don't join farm parties?
The PF is a mixed bag.

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Originally Posted by Nims

Player makes a thread asking for people to get banned because they're doing constant emotes around them.

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Talk about out of context

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Originally Posted by Krojack

I'm on board with the group that thinks parsers would in fact make the community more toxic over all. It would turn into a "must have > X dps else get kicked" or just the normal "You're bad vote kick" in dungeons.

What SE could do it add a built-in personal parser that shows just your DPS (and HPS if on a healer) then after the fight compare your numbers to others of your job with the same average ilvl gear. If you're on Monk and have average ilvl 440 and your DPS is 4,000 less that the the average 440 ilvl Monk you could see this. It would give you an idea that you're doing something wrong and should do some reading up on your class.

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im gonna keep it real with you, chief; having standards for a party, especially a party finder party, isn't toxic. if you're barely pushing 8k on a BLM in a Titania farm party i'm going to kick you, full stop. If you're pulling less damage than the tank in a dungeon as a dps you're practically afk and should either actually hit buttons, learn your rotation, or leave. Thats not toxic, thats the basics.