An ad hominem (Latin: "to the man", "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it.[1] The ad hominem is normally described as a logical fallacy,[2][3][4] but it is not always fallacious; in some instances, questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue.[5]Quote:
Originally Posted by Preypacer
/resume break from forum
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10-20-2011, 08:26 AMJackDaniels
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10-20-2011, 08:27 AMxenowind
Agreed, this sounds really fair.
Although there is no problem for myself to pay a full fare, but I don't think I will play much until it's fully completed.
Feels like paradox, it's going to be more like investment than a service to me. -
10-20-2011, 08:31 AMPreypacerNice quotation job.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDaniels
Would be even better if it was actually properly used in this case.
It isn't. -
10-20-2011, 08:31 AMStarlordMade absolutely no senseQuote:
Originally Posted by JackDaniels
/resume in-game play session -
10-20-2011, 08:48 AMJackDaniels
Sorry you guys are just too funny. You especially wynn.
Let me elaborate. I know these big boy words can be hard on you guys.
Preypacer, you are trying to say that because we want to invest time into our characters that aren't getting wiped come v2.0 (which I and everyone else who has been playing is really looking forward to), we feel that this game is in a position worthy of being billed for.
I can assure you that if there was a character wipe coming around the corner for 2.0, not a single person would be playing right now, let alone paying for it a couple down months the road (barring some extreme fan-boys).
With that being said, your stance is that because we want to keep advancing our characters, that automatically means that we like the game enough to pay for it. That is a logical fallcy.Quote:
In informal logic and rhetoric, a fallacy is usually incorrect argumentation in reasoning resulting in a misconception or presumption
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10-20-2011, 09:01 AMPhysicregardless of the debate, it has come to this, if you want to advance your charachters, or have fun, or just enjoy logging on to talk to people, whatever the nature of the service you get, then you must choose, is it worth the price they ask or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDaniels
If not, well hey you werent going to pay them anyway. They ran a free service, but that time is over. If you want to play you can pay, if you dont you can leave, if everyone leaves they will probably close the servers. But they would do the same thing if everyone stayed and didnt pay as well, so really its irrelevant. Point is, you are no longer doing them any favors by playing the game for free, and they no longer feel like doing you a favor by letting you play for free.
Some people can argue the price point, and the marketing value of reduced prices, but ultimately, its all just a guess, and SE is going to make that business guess, because at the end of the day thats what businesses do. I personally hope its lower, but i wont try to pretend that i have the right answer, and SE would be crazy to do it any other way. -
10-20-2011, 09:06 AMStarlordAs I said before,Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDaniels
If players can play a game for free for 12-15 months..
They can Surely pay to play, because of the simple fact " They enjoy it"
Or else why play something if it merits no entertainment? That's a fact
Also to point out that: " They knew from the Very Beginning, that at some point or another.. this game will become P2P" and yet they continue to play knowing that fact and that fact alone. Why bother Putting all that work into a character in which your not going pay to further its Development? -
10-20-2011, 09:09 AMWynnHe's saying he gets no enjoyment out of it. To him it is just a mindless chore to level his character so that when 2.0 comes out he can enjoy the game with a leveled character. That might be true, but that doesn't make it any less sad or relevant. SE gave him a year to advance his character as he puts it. They don't owe him anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
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10-20-2011, 09:16 AMZephyrFox
I like FFXIV and the new Dev team. I also love where the game is going, but at the same time money is tight right now with college.
If I'm going to drop 12-15 dollars a month on a game I'd rather choose a MMO that's been out for a few years and seen some polish than a half done MMO undergoing a complete overhaul. To me its seems obvious I can get alot more for my money somewhere else than this game could give me regardless of my feelings about the game. It pretty much boils down to how much I enjoy playing and how much I'd be willing to pay for that enjoyment.
Don't get me wrong I love the game, but it still feels unfinished in alot of areas to pay full price. 5-7$ however, I'd gladly pay with no problem since it's cheaper than most other MMOs and I feel I could get enough enjoyment out of it to easily cover the cost. -
10-20-2011, 09:32 AMNapalmz
well....
I bought the collectors edition at launch... fired it up, installed it and spent hours patching..so i gave up and went to work.
When i got back i spent 3 hours wandering around gridania lost, not understanding the UI, journal or well anything really after spending so long playing WoW. I eventually accepted some guildeaves and went off to kill funguar where i repeatedly died due to mobs coming out of the floor/trees/linking. Some mobs i couldnt even target it was so bugged so i quit. What a waste of money.
I was tidying up and found the collectors box and thought hmmm i wonder whats been happening in ffxiv so fired it up. This was 1 day after 1.19 and yes its changed some since i first tried it. I met a nice chap who invited me into his LS and i continue to play.
My highest level is a 21 THM and ive been running about exploring and have discovered so far that the whole levelling process ahead is going to consist of grinding mobs over and over and over. mostly on my own and with no real point in attacking the local fauna.
My point is this:
I really, really, really WANT to love this game because its nothing like WoW, but it seems so lacking in motivation to lvl. With warcraft you quest all the way through so you dont notice the 10k mobs you had to kill, or the 5000 quest items you picked up on the way because you were always moving and every map was different.
Right now i feel the game seems very slow to respond to casting spells, interacting and the UI seems clunky and unresponsive and weirdly alot of actions needed to start something simple. There seems to be delays when i try to mine while my toon fiddles around, twirls like a majorette and then "gets ready to mine".
Another thing is the crafting, whilst fun at first, it gets old real quick. Me spamming enter repeadly for an hour to craft copper bars with standard syth gave me rsi and i havent touched crafting since because this to me was horrendous. There needs to be a better way, like a grind synth thats auto and is guaranteed not to proc an HQ.
I will not be staying when they try to charge for this unless its seriously reduced. I love the concept of 2.0 and if need be i will log off when p2p comes in, then try again in 2013 when 2.0 launches. I'd stretch to a reduced payment, but the same sub as WoW to repeatly zzz kill....the same damn mob over and over again til 50.. well thats a straight NO from me.
Gamers have changed. grinding isnt the only way nowadays.