there's a lot of sensitive people in this game

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

you suggest they leave? you joking right ? they will just kick that healer that doesnt play how others want him to play..soo much easier...how can you even suggest that someone leaves if not in agreement? you must be crazy !! (Ironie here sorry couldnt resist)

Mei

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It was more a 1v1 you vs them situation. If it's three vs one and your whole party agrees with your suggestion, removing the healer is the same as the three of you "leaving" and getting paired back together, so sure, go ahead and boot him, I made no objection to that. It's quicker than all THREE of you leaving and the healer can just requeue solo. If your whole party doesn't agree with his playstyle, find someone else who does, simple as that.

Just don't be telling him how he needs to play or calling him an idiot/terrible for not sharing your perspective. :D

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Originally Posted by Kyutaru

Please read what I wrote... I did say you can offer a suggestion. If the healer is only dpsing, and you don't think you're going to make much progress in the content with him doing that, and he's refusing to do otherwise, kindly thank him for the group and make your exit. Find someone else to play with who better fits your standards of what a healer should be doing.

Your so-called rules are terribly defined, and while you may think they're easy in such extreme scenarios, you use them to support claims in less obvious situations. Some parties have their tank pull half the content before stopping to let the DPS AOE everything down, while others prefer the slow crawl or handling one pull at a time. Requests CAN be made, if not met, you are WELCOME TO LEAVE!

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Why should I exit because someone isn't playing their class? Point is, there's certain way to play certain classes, that's why every class is different. That's why tanks have taunt and other classes don't. That's why healers have healing skills and other classes don't, etc etc.

Me saying a "certain" way is a broad term. The "certain" way is, you have to kill the monsters to progress, rather it's fast or slow is irrelevant. Your point was, people can play how they want, whenever. No, they can't, well technically they can, but they can't wine about it when they get kicked for not playing their class properly.

in this I agree with you Kyutaru, you must have missed that I was just being ironical....LOL...this game draw the worst out of people...and most think they are entitled to everything and have full knowledge on all ways to play a game.

Mei

You must understand the original post was about a party who kicked the poster, so naturally they were not in agreement with his comment. Why should you exit? Because the party isn't in agreement with you. If they are, kicking the healer does the same damn thing. There is in fact NOT a certain way to play each class, as beyond the basic rotation of a Gladiator, when to use specific cooldowns is in the air and a personal judgement call, just as when to use Cure 2 over Cure 1 or Regen or Medica or heck when to spam Holy is all depending on how player handles, gears, or positions himself. Some parts of the content may not be possible to bypass without executing actions in a certain way, but this too is uncertain. We've downed bosses in situations that should have been unlikely to do so. I still remember the time a Monk was our main tank because ours disconnected halfway in.

By all means, insult our poor Monk for thinking he's a tank.

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Originally Posted by Kyutaru

Snip.

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/Facepalm

You're right, tanks should never use any aggro gaining skills and healers should never use any healing skills either. Especially if that's how they want to play. /rollseyes.
So let me ask you this...what's the point of classes? Each class has a different playstyle. If people are picking "x" class and playing it like "b" class. What's the point of the class system?

I think you're deliberately missing the fact that i'm saying a "certain" way as a broad term instead of an "exact" way because there's more than one certain way, but there's still a certain way..hence the different classes. ._.

I understand what the post was about and I agreed with OP about sensitive people. Everyone screams "elitist" when they don't know how to play their class. Then for some reason a lot of people have this "I can play my healer as a tank and you just have to deal with it!" attitude. It makes the game just horrible when you have people deliberately being inconsiderate, because that's what that is. Then kick the person for calling them out on it. As far as my comments besides the first one, those were in regards to your comment...

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Originally Posted by allecs

You're right, tanks should never use any aggro gaining skills and healers should never use any healing skills either. Especially if that's how they want to play.

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Being that I never wrote such a thing, you must be trolling with strawman arguments. I have not given such opinions, but stated thusly -- if you encounter one who doesn't, you are free to decide whether you would like to continue the group with him or find another group/tank. That is all you are permitted to do. No rights are granted to you to define his playstyle, merely to either accept or reject it. There are many disagreements over how classes are played, and the original post pertained to a healer using AOE dps. It may or may not have been the most EFFECTIVE use of his time and MP, but it would be rude to demand he do so. Thankfully the poster did not (that he claims) and his party, free to make their own choices, chose not to continue playing with him rather than taking an elitest role.

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Originally Posted by Kyutaru

Snip

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Okay, I think there's a ton of confusion going on.

I never said you said that, or even implied you said that. Your original post was people can do whatever and you should never question them. My point is, you can't play that way when you're playing with other people (of course unless everyone agrees). There are certain ways to play classes and if someone isn't playing said class a certain way, then yes you should say something. Suggesting a healer should dps isn't being elitist, it's helping out the group.

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Originally Posted by allecs

Okay, I think there's a ton of confusion going on.

I never said you said that, or even implied you said that. Your original post was people can do whatever and you should never question them. My point is, you can't play that way when you're playing with other people (of course unless everyone agrees). There are certain ways to play classes and if someone isn't playing said class a certain way, then yes you should say something. Suggesting a healer should dps isn't being elitist, it's helping out the group.

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Read my posts again to clarify your confusion. I did not say you could never question someone's playstyle, I said you could not dictate it. I even state you are free to offer advice. Suggesting a healer offer dps is perfectly fine! Ridiculing him as terrible when he disagrees is not. You stated "This is an mmo, you can't play how you want", which is what I countered. You certainly can play an MMO the way you want, just as YOU can decide not to play with that person.

I've now repeated my stance four times using different words. If you still do not understand it, I will thank you for the chat and simply walk away. I can no more force you to accept my point of view than I can force a healer to dps. :D

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Originally Posted by Kyutaru

Read my posts again to clarify your confusion. I did not say you could never question someone's playstyle, I said you could not dictate it. I even state you are free to offer advice. Suggesting a healer offer dps is perfectly fine! Ridiculing him as terrible when he disagrees is not. You stated "This is an mmo, you can't play how you want", which is what I countered. You certainly can play an MMO the way you want, just as YOU can decide not to play with that person.

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If you don't like the way someone is playing, you are never in the right to tell them how to play

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Which is why I brought up the examples I did.
Okay, let me correct myself. Of course you can play how you want, but not when you're entering a dungeon with randoms. At this point, it doesn't matter any more because your opinion is instead of removing bad players(thus helping players stay bad, which this game has an unusually high amount of bad players), remove your self. *shrugs*

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Originally Posted by allecs

Which is why I brought up the examples I did.
Okay, let me correct myself. Of course you can play how you want, but not when you're entering a dungeon with randoms.

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Not having the right to tell them how to play means keep it to suggestions. Complaining that they aren't spamming Holy is dictation. Requesting that they spam Holy is suggestion. The two sound similar, but they're taken extremely differently by people with a sense for manners and politeness. The list of examples you brought up were responses you can get when people have been dictated far too much by rude players. We've all had that one player try to tell us how to do our jobs regardless of how great or terrible you are.

For your second point, I must respectfully disagree. :)

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Originally Posted by allecs

At this point, it doesn't matter any more because your opinion is instead of removing bad players(thus helping players stay bad, which this game has an unusually high amount of bad players), remove your self. *shrugs*

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That is false, and more strawman fallacy. Several of my posts state just the opposite. There is no harm in removing a player whose playstyle you disagree with.