DPS meters and why they're necessary

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Originally Posted by Malric

The reality is they are not generally used for self improvement alone, they are not generally used to teach anyone else, they are used to justify one simple saying...

"You are the weakest link, goodbye!"

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This is quite a distorted vision of reality you have there. You mean that all your FC members with a parser steadly kick ppl from DF? In my FC i have only one person that like to bark and is rude to ppl that play bad. And we are 20-30 active players. And some do have parsers but rarely they put it up for DR/DF. every time i run womething with them i have to ask to open parser beforehand if i need my numbers otherwise they don't care about it and they won't bitch in DR/DF for some low dps

So for my experience i call false your statement that parser are wanted primarly for that. The amount of ppl that whould actually kick ppl for low but still resonable dps is really small

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Originally Posted by raelgun

As you dont use parsers, how can you prove that, me and others can do the same by just thinking of something to do, but it needs to be proved if it works, or improve upon it, and you havent given any hard evidence.

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To be blatant, you are blind and ignorant to what really matters to finishing content if you think a parser can accurately judge a person's skill.

No fight is the same, outside statics parties are not the same.

Sometimes you carry people, sometimes you only do your job, sometimes you know you failed in which any player not good enough to know this will not become good with a parser.

Parsers are not hard evidence to anything except y person did x damage.
They don't account for that players experience nor gear and cannot tell a fresh 50 in i55 gear from one in i110.

The only proof is success which a parser does not give you, experience and time do.

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Originally Posted by psychotic_mage

Parsers don't take into account gear or movement needed that would affect melee and casters.

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they actually do, parsers give a massive detail of information, youre gonna have to get a chance to take a look at one.

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Originally Posted by Malric

To be blatant, you are blind and ignorant to what really matters to finishing content if you think a parser can accurately judge a person's skill.

No fight is the same, outside statics parties are not the same.

Sometimes you carry people, sometimes you only do your job, sometimes you know you failed in which any player not good enough to know this will not become good with a parser.

Parsers are not hard evidence to anything except y person did x damage.
They don't account for that players experience nor gear and cannot tell a fresh 50 in i55 gear from one in i110.

The only proof is success which a parser does not give you, experience and time do.

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Parsers tell you all of that actually, it tells you what people got hit by, how much active time they were on a target, what debuff and how many times it occured on a person, tells you if you missed, it keeps record of everything everyone did, even tells you how many times someone used a certain spell or skill, parsers are used for theory carfting to prove or disprove an element of that theory.

So yes, it actually does judge a person skills, skills come from learning and experience, and to improve and prove if such things work, you need to test it, and if you test something, you need a result from it to prove it.

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Originally Posted by Malric

I 100% Agree!

(In DF)

If a DPS, Healer, or Tank is blatantly ignoring the party, not trying/listening, and is trolling your party I can see kicking them (though I do not know if SE agrees)

If a DPS, Healer, or Tank is trying and learning too slow, causing a run to fail because they're not that good or have bad gear, I don't care how many wipes it takes teach them or vote to abandon. If your can't teach and you lose vote, leave.

In duty finder that is their ONLY place to learn and no one has a right to tell anyone in there they aren't good enough to learn.

You want guaranteed success? Good luck! In PF it's your group, your call, who gives a crap and even there you will NOT guarantee a win parser or not.

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Who said something different? Really few assholes will bitch for ppl that are doing poorly but they try to improve. And those few ppl are wrong and NEED to be reported

BUT this has nothing to do with parser. They are alredy there. They alredy kick. They should be alredy being reported even with no parsers. And even if parser where allowed and those same ppl kick you adding "you did only 300 in brayflox" you still report them for the kick

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Originally Posted by LetBloodline

So for my experience i call false your statement that parser are wanted primarly for that. The amount of ppl that whould actually kick ppl for low but still resonable dps is really small

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You should read this "pro parser" topic a little better, especially early on.
It's FULL of people advocating that you should use them in DF to kick people.
This happens a lot in ex primals & coil.

No one in my FC uses a parser (I know them all personally IRL)
My last FC with hundreds active, different story.

I've seen partial premades vote kick in DF more than a dozen times already.
The number of times I've seen "bad dps" and then vote kick pop up is disgusting.

I am sure lots don't do this, I try to believe not everyone is a d-bag, but enough are that it's a problem.

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Originally Posted by LetBloodline

Who said something different? Really few assholes will bitch for ppl that are doing poorly but they try to improve. And those few ppl are wrong and NEED to be reported

BUT this has nothing to do with parser. They are alredy there. They alredy kick. They should be alredy being reported even with no parsers. And even if parser where allowed and those same ppl kick you adding "you did only 300 in brayflox" you still report them for the kick

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Like I said before... show me a parser that measures only your dps and cannot be used to judge others (preferably one built in that all can use) and you'll have my vote.

You may even agree with that idea, but I'd be willing to bet the bulk majority of "pro parsers" on this topic would not.

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Originally Posted by Malric

You should read this "pro parser" topic a little better, especially early on.
It's FULL of people advocating that you should use them in DF to kick people.
This happens a lot in ex primals & coil.

No one in my FC uses a parser (I know them all personally IRL)
My last FC with hundreds active, different story.

I've seen partial premades vote kick in DF more than a dozen times already.
The number of times I've seen "bad dps" and then vote kick pop up is disgusting.

I am sure lots don't do this, I try to believe not everyone is a d-bag, but enough are that it's a problem.

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So, you tell me that the player you know in your FC whould be bad if you give them a parser? It's some kind of cursed amulate that turns your friends in d-bags? I that don't know your friend i'm SURE this is NOT the case, i hope you give them more credit.

To be bluntly honest, i got kicked once for i don't know that reason and the vote-kick i saw i can count on one hand not even using all finghers. More often i see terrible players with terrible manners try to get kicked cuz they don't like the dungeon they where trown in. Or ppl quitting after a few fails and consequently the whole party quit. But kick for bad play? Never saw that one.

I feel i'm in a tight spot of beleaving you about this happening every run or beleave my experience of this being more rare than drop mirror in levi =P (that i have yet to see after 50-60 kills or so)

And again, if one person is rude, "i play the way i want" and stopping you from complete that ifrit lv20 is one thing, if you are just taking longher to brayflox it totally a different story

anyway who in his right mind is going DF to get a sure clear in extremes or coil? The only idea of doing this is beyond stupidity. You go there for train not for the kill. And if you bitch around for ppl learning those fights in DF you deserve the 7 reports you should get

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Like I said before... show me a parser that measures only your dps and cannot be used to judge others (preferably one built in that all can use) and you'll have my vote.

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I don't have to show you, we are asking to SE to build one, so join in and ask for a well build and complete personal parser that can't be shared instead of put a no on every idea even if it whould fit your taste

They should just add private parsers so you can improve if you need it and call it a day. If you join a group with a sub par dps and refuse to muscle through it, just leave and retry with another group. I do it all the time cuz I dont think its fair to punish people due to my lack of patience.

What about personal DPS meters? Im on ps3, dont have a parser but would love to have something on my screen showing my own personal DPS output. Now that Im learning some other jobs it would be nice to know what Im hitting for to see if Im figuring out the mechanics of these jobs right. Since it would only be on my screen theres no harassment or ppl getting vote kicked because of it. Plus I would know whether Im low and need to take a closer look at my rotations. Maybe even ask ppl in the raid for advice or pointers. There could even be job averages so you have an idea where you can/should be DPS wise. Better yet, put the all time highs for that raid on the meter and we could all compete for a top title or something. Bad DPS could learn to improve & good DPS could keep trying to raise the bar. All the while its own your own screen & no one can judge or see it except you.