Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

Just thought that Cure 3 could be re-worked in a fashion. Have the basic Cure 3 be interactable with the Lily system as such:

1 Lily - Halve MP cost (this would obviously replace the trait we currently have for it)
2 lillies - Increase potency by 250. Basically, make it stronger than Cure 2 at this point.
3 lillies - Increase range by 3 or 5 yalms. Nothing near a Medica level radius, but a notable increase.

With the old Cure 3 trait, rework it so it turns Cure 3 into Cure 4 by doubling the potency of Cure 3 but removing the radius while keeping the MP cost the same. This would give WHM that powerhouse heal, but make it come at a cost.

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Originally Posted by dvoraen

My feedback is largely in the form of a proposal. Everyone's pretty much made the essential points. This Google doc I wrote pretty much summarizes my standpoint on it, and is my bid for #WHM4.4Buff. :p

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

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While I like the direction of this person's suggestions, they're likely a bit too over powered. xD

v.v Stoneskin will be missed. If people think a tacked on level 66 skill is going to replace the loss, that's just pure ignorance. CT/ST/WoD and VA/WC/DS... all of those have times where Stoneskin helps people to live. Even good players can zone out for a second and die in those places.

Also:
AST gets Bole at level 30.
SCH gets Adlo at level 30.
WHM no longer gets stone skin at level 34.

One of these things is not like the other. So from level 34 on wards in instances, WHMs will have no mitigation compared to the other two.

How would a WHM be able to handle T1-13 synched? There's a lot of places where even a 10% shield is the difference between life or death. How would a WHM handle T10? T12?? T13??? What do they bring to the table at 50 that would allow them to clear that content. And people still like to clear that content for the challenge. Even current content, WHM would need more help from their off healer just to clear it synched because of lack of Stoneskin!

And for the record, for the cross class skills, we lost:
Stone I's Heavy.
Ensuna.
Protect.
Cleric Stance.
Shroud of Saints.
Divine Seal.

So that's access to 6 skills we have had since 2.0... and in 4.0 we have to pick and choose from them on top of having to take Swift Cast.

Any shift towards a Crit Build on White Mage should be outright discouraged unless SE wants to make us the new self healing tank class. >.> I don't know about you, but I've played a Crit Build White Mage (because it was my SCH alt and I used her gear), and unless your tanks are constantly spamming aggro rotations, you will nab aggro. Which further reduces group DPS and makes you even LESS desirable.

*sigh* I'm working on a post with my own suggestions, since I haven't given mine yet here.

Just had an idea for an offensive WHM buff, something I believe thematic and fitting for the role of a White Mage:

Soul Extension
Cooldown: 180 seconds
Range 10y
Radius: 0y
Duration: 15 seconds

Create a tether between caster and target ally and halve caster attack magic potency. Add that to ally's highest attack potency while tether is active.

Basically, this would function like a WHM Cover, of sorts, and decrease WHM DPS. However, in doing so, the WHM "covered" target gets a DPS buff while tethered. A melee DPS would see their melee potency increase by half of the WHMs magic attack potency or a caster would see their own magic attack potency increase by half of the WHMs magic attack potency. The only drawback would be that both the WHM and the target NEED to be aware of where they are. This would give WHM something as an answer to AST Balance and SCH crit boost.

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Originally Posted by Atlantasia

v.v Stoneskin will be missed. If people think a tacked on level 66 skill is going to replace the loss, that's just pure ignorance. CT/ST/WoD and VA/WC/DS... all of those have times where Stoneskin helps people to live. Even good players can zone out for a second and die in those places.

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I'm hearing a lot about how much of a loss Stoneskin will be and I am honestly really confused. The only place I have found Stoneskin to be of any use is on the last form of Diabolos Hollow before he does his last big AoE on somebody who has more than one stack of weakness. In this case I just wait to raise them until afterwards. Looking at FFLogs it doesn't seem as though a whole lot of WHMs are actually casting this during fights either, only as a pre-buff.

Stoneskin was really only useful when you were in Cleric, IMO. The long cast time and high mana cost, combined with the fact that it was usually gone in one or two hits, hardly makes it seem like that great of a loss. I'm not going to miss it.

Also, who on this green earth is doing Coil runs synced beyond a sheer novelty?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atlantasia

v.v Stoneskin will be missed. If people think a tacked on level 66 skill is going to replace the loss, that's just pure ignorance. CT/ST/WoD and VA/WC/DS... all of those have times where Stoneskin helps people to live. Even good players can zone out for a second and die in those places.

Also:
AST gets Bole at level 30.
SCH gets Adlo at level 30.
WHM no longer gets stone skin at level 34.

One of these things is not like the other. So from level 34 on wards in instances, WHMs will have no mitigation compared to the other two.

How would a WHM be able to handle T1-13 synched? There's a lot of places where even a 10% shield is the difference between life or death. How would a WHM handle T10? T12?? T13??? What do they bring to the table at 50 that would allow them to clear that content. And people still like to clear that content for the challenge. Even current content, WHM would need more help from their off healer just to clear it synched because of lack of Stoneskin!

And for the record, for the cross class skills, we lost:
Stone I's Heavy.
Ensuna.
Protect.
Cleric Stance.
Shroud of Saints.
Divine Seal.

So that's access to 6 skills we have had since 2.0... and in 4.0 we have to pick and choose from them on top of having to take Swift Cast.

Any shift towards a Crit Build on White Mage should be outright discouraged unless SE wants to make us the new self healing tank class. >.> I don't know about you, but I've played a Crit Build White Mage (because it was my SCH alt and I used her gear), and unless your tanks are constantly spamming aggro rotations, you will nab aggro. Which further reduces group DPS and makes you even LESS desirable.

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Stoneskin Part 1: a lot of those deaths are due to healers not topping off health on revived people right away and just letting regens handle it.
Stoneskin Part 2: the only way for that logic of syncing in T1-13 is to do it w/o the echo and to not have your gear synced, but to wear appropriate ilvl gear for the area, synced gear is far stronger than appropriate gear even on min ilvl, most chars have an extra few thousand hp synced into those with lvl 60 i250+ avg or so.

Bole: all I have for that is combining RNG and opportunity cost.
Adloquium: this takes the place of both Cure II and Regen in your kit, which you get at 30 and 35. Pick which one you want pushed back or lost to gain an equivlent feature. Also it costs About 20% more MP than Cure I and about 70% more MP than Regen.

Stone I: Everyone got hit by this, healers, tanks, and DPS, thus its a non-issue. I'm not even sure ASTs equivilent of Stella is even in the game anymore.

Esuna: WHM didn't lose this HEALERS lost this, they simply opted to keep the name from the WHM one. Couldve called it Leeches or Exalted Detriment, but Esuna is FF iconic so of course they went with that.

Protect: Didn't really do anything to the healer dynamic, your in no worse shape than anyone else, technically this could be considered balancing that seems to be a greivance WHMs have. To be honest, if protect was reworked for PVE like the PVP version is now, youd have a complaint. Balance and equality donesn't mean its nice to be on the higher end, its nice everywhere. Congratulations new Mr. Bergeron!

Cleric Stance: TBH if they gave this back to WHMs in its current form I don't think ASTs would care, I think SCHs were the only ones hit for DMG output significantly. And even with that opinion, its current value is significantly less, its very easy to never use now, so why is it a problem.

Shroud of Saints: Lucid Dream hit everyone, Luminiferous Aether is gone and Aetherflow was halved, you now have both of the strongest MP management related tools in the game with Thin Air and Assize, before you say Assize's main purpose isn't MP, that very facet is what makes it strong, it can be used for anything and you still get it. Ewer/Energy Drain the AST/SCH loses something else to get it.

Divine Seal: Ignoring for now that you eventually mention hating a reason to overheal... AST lost this on Synastry. SCH seems to have avoided it, but Dissipation is by and far the most painful to use of the 3 flat healing boosts.

Crit build does this on EVERYONE, just the MP cost of overhealing is lower. SCH benefits the most simply because of having the lowest actual healing #s and the highest crit modifier bonus with Adloquium (the Noct #s being mentioned will likely never make it to live, albiet Noct requires more frequent use of MP to heal than SCH). Crit seems super bad on regens because regens are NATURALLY MP INEFFICIENT OVERHEALING MONSTROSITIES. Don't get me wrong I love regens, I specialize on the Diurnal side of things, but I also know most of my wasted MP is on Aspected Benefic, Aspected Helios, and when I hit the target second with Benefic I and II. Can HoTs be used efficiently? most definitely yes, will they though? Likely not, myself included heavily use HoTs to be lazy and spend more time and attention on things that aren't healing. Most common spot for Regen/D Aspected Benefic would be the main tank, as they will generally get a vastly higher percentage of effective healing from any given HoT. Only healer that can't survive without their specialty tool heals is SCH simply because they have no AOE heal otherwise.

An effective overhaul to the Lily system would make it great. Playing into the developer's intent of generating and maintaining resources I purpose this: Have Lilies generate through a building meter for every spell WHM casts.

Effectively they would be like grease lightning stacks that would enhance the WHM spells and gcds through passive bonuses. This would encourage WHM to be active at all times. Here is my working plan for the system.

Each spell increases the plant thus making a lily grow by fixed %s. The meter/lilies degrade slowly. Each Lily tier would provide a bonus of 5%->10%->15%->spell potency and spell speed.

This change would encourage WHM to act no matter the situation rather than stand idle waiting for damage to occur before casting a cure 2 for lilies.

Now to cover how or why a WHM would want to consume their lilies at all.

First have Plenary Indulgence reworked to consume a lily for a powerful buff that increases the party's direct hit chance by 10% and allow a moderately low cool down so that a WHM will want to use this skill often to prevent simply sitting on lilies.

Second make Divine Benison only consume 1 lily and reduce the cooldown to 5sec. This will help WHM respond to situations where tremendous amounts of damage are being dealt and more than one person can be supported or barrier/heal dump on a tank.

Finally recondition Secret of the Lily 2 trait to make it so heals that overheal targets at maximum lilies will grant the target(s) temporary health up to 10% of their hp.

These changes will give WHM an answer to SCH and AST when it comes to raid utility and encourage active and effective play.

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Originally Posted by Atlantasia

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yeah...i already have high CRIT. i already tank from time to time.

I know i'm going to be tanking. especially with Assize doing full DPS and full healing + Crits + whatever regen/medica 2 ticks...PoM+Thin Air + Holy + Crits...um...yeah..>_<

I'm looking forward to be a very squooshy tank for awhile...unfortunately.

I am curious CrazyCapn What if our teather instead gave a stronger bonus to Mage Casters instead of Physical. So many Physical buffs already.
What if the spell had different uses for how many Lillies or Confessions we had. 1. A healing potency buff, 2. A small Mitigation buff for the party. 3. A small DPS buff for a target "Maybe stronger for a caster"

Would it still answer Astro or Sch probably not. It would also need to be a long Cooldown.

We need UTILITY.

I would like for our Lilies to interact with our job spells in some unique way instead of giving us CDR.
Maybe give a small bonus to Regen *small potency*, Aslyum *Mitigation while inside of it*, Assize *15% Mp restored*, Holy *an extra Second for stun duration*, PoM *5% more SS*
Make our job abilities feel more dynamic.

I wouldn't know if my ideas are overtuned or undertuned.

I just want Lillies to interact with our job in a more meaningful way come on CDR really.. Do we need to make DPS stronger No. Healers buffing DPS shouldn't even exist.

Replace the obvious major level gaps, and can we please stop getting Stones. Why don't you use Water or Holy elements more often.

@Jxnibbles: That's the thing with the Lily system - there could be so many uses for it that the possibilities could be limitless. the fact that SE chose to go with the seemingly most disfunctional one is dishearteneing. My main thought about the Lily system is that it can give some Oomph to some otherwise unused spells to make WHM more interesting and fun to play. The one thing I try to do is make it that whatever I come up with, the Lily system does NOT interact with ANYTHING offensive in the White Mage arsenal. Yoshi-P wants White Mage to be more healer centric? Fine by me; however, if we're going to be healer centric, let's get fucking serious with some reworks, overhauls and additions for WHM defensive utilitites and leave everything offensive as iti s.

That's my take on White Mage, at any rate. take it for what you will.

so are someppl already playing stormblood?

i dont get why ppl are talking like its a serten thing 0-o