Review of 6.3 Story Content

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I'll definitely take Golbez the FFXIV version of the Jailer over Meteion and Hermes any day, at least. No previous expansion story to date has tried and failed to get the point across the way Endwalker did with its botched attempt at philosophical messaging and retroactively damaging the game's foundational lore.

At any rate - I do not believe there is a single EW enjoyer who would really lose out if 7.0 sees us return to the style of Heavensward with a fresh cast that has flaws/growth and yes even death so as to tell a mature enough story without the need for excessive padding with slice of life nonsense and fluff. The Scions had 10 years to make the case for themselves sticking around and although Shb started to make them somewhat tolerable, an entire expansion in EW of stagnant or in some case backwards growth just shows me that they really cannot be salvaged.

Better to have the Ysayles of the game die before they live long enough to become Y'shtolas.

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Did EW fail to get it's messages across or did said messages simply not land with YOU the individual. Cause I can personally say EW hit me on levels no other game has and helped me overcome things going on in my life. Was there some lore changes, sure but thats going to happen to any game which a story so long. Things made years ago are made under a different mindset with a different regard for the future.

Personally with EW going as bad as you so claim, I'd like to see what your perfect script of EW would be. I know one thing you'd have killed off any character you don't like (scions) so that's a bit you can leave out.

Oh yeah I have to ask what's with the character death fetish. You speak of growth n trouble yet the only example given is death. Zero is quite literally what you're asking for in a character but maybe it's because she's not what you'd call a hot woman that she doesn't fit the bill? I remember you saying something like that before. I've seen more growth in game with the Scions than I've ever seen from you here in over a year. You're the same person saying the same things, doing the same things, ignoring the same people.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

And this is exactly why people like me need to speak out against people like this. You're still in a honeymoon phase with this game and can't see it's decline. I've been here since day 1 of ARR. I can. And I refuse to let you and the other people who can't see how the story went from bad in EW to worse in the patches along with the continued degradation of combat gameplay tell me that I can't speak my mind or that doing so is wrong.

But then again I seem to remember someone similar telling me that "picking up mercenary party members isn't realistic" (only for the next patch to pick up Zero by way of a Crystal gizmo we just magically happened to have picked up moments before) or that "the WoL is still relearning how to trust food" so I'm not about to consult some of the people on here for their opinion on what constitutes the calibre of story FFXIV deserves.

Never before has it been so easy to tell who here has actually been consuming other media apart from this game and who hasn't. It was the Bloody Banquet and stuff in that vein that got me to take this game seriously. Not some Deviantart OC ripping a bun in half.

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No reason to be so judgemental there. A year is perfectly long enough to develop an informed opinion on the game. The fact you have been playing longer does not give you superiority on this subject, especially given that art is subjective. There are plenty of other ARR veterans (Like me!) who do disagree with you and are still enjoying the story, lore and games direction even if its not always perfect. Are we all blind ‘white knights’ simply because we have different tastes on this one matter? No one can pass judgement on the current story state and call it fact. You feel in love with the game via the ARR patches? Great! I think thats when the game really made a mark on me too, but it would be dull if every storyline was like that. One of the joys of the game is that we can explore the lore and story in different ways. We can have epic battles across the stars, political intrigue, examinations on colonialism, small human moments that involve bonding with others via sharing food and have a half-naked buff guy chase his detective son around the moon! That diversity is wonderful and one of the reasons why I adore this world.

Not everything will hit the mark sure, but the game is not dead if a story or character arc feels wrong. We have had what I would call dull patches before, and we will have them again. Tis the nature of storytelling, and more so in a MMO. If people dislike that the current stuff then I hope they find the future expansion more enjoyable. I have little doubt it will be a different type of adventure at the very least!

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No previous expansion story to date has tried and failed to get the point across the way Endwalker did with its botched attempt at philosophical messaging and retroactively damaging the game's foundational lore.

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In your opinion, which, given past events, amounts to very little.

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At any rate - I do not believe there is a single EW enjoyer who would really lose out if 7.0 sees us return to the style of Heavensward with a fresh cast that has flaws/growth and yes even death so as to tell a mature enough story without the need for excessive padding with slice of life nonsense and fluff.

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You do not have any idea what i want and dont want, what I like and dont like, so kindly do me the courtesy of not assuming otherwise. DO NOT PRESUME to even try to speak for me..you do NOT.

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The Scions had 10 years to make the case for themselves sticking around and although Shb started to make them somewhat tolerable, an entire expansion in EW of stagnant or in some case backwards growth just shows me that they really cannot be salvaged.

Better to have the Ysayles of the game die before they live long enough to become Y'shtolas.

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Your opinion has been duly noted, logged and disposed of as is appropriate. I happen to love Yshtola's character. Urianger as well. Thancred, for all his flaws, has grown greatly in the interim.

I also note that you have not ( yet again ), answered my questions posted earlier.

Y'see Aveyond, I have been gaming a VERY long time. Decades. I have been privileged to sit in on a writers conference for an in developement MMO ( as has been said on the STRICT proviso that I didnt open my yap once OR ELSE since I had been permitted to do as a VERY special favour ), I have listened in on podcasts run by a pair of people I doubt you have even heard of..Ken and Roberta Williams..I have again had the privilege of talking to and listening to a man named Al Lowe...those names should be familiar to anyone who knows gaming.

They founded a company called Coarsegold...which is known these days as a gaming giant by the name of Sierra Vivendi. What I learned in that time is a scant fraction of a fraction of one percent on how games writing works...but heres the difference between us.

I dont claim to be an expert on what gaming writing should be, or what others may want. You, on the other hand, seem to be under this delusion that "you know whats best for us all"

The sheer arrogance of that attitude beggars the imagination.

Considering this is the man who took a joke and started policing what Summoners should have in terms of summons, I'm sorry to say that whatever screws Aveyond had have officially come loose.

Here lies Aveyond's legacy. May it be memeworthy.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Considering this is the man who took a joke and started policing what Summoners should have in terms of summons, I'm sorry to say that whatever screws Aveyond had have officially come loose.

Here lies Aveyond's legacy. May it be memeworthy.

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Was this supposed to be some kind of dig? I'm absolutely going to push back against people who want to summon the Twelve especially after what I learned about them from this raid.

A lack of gatekeeping for the class in general led to a subset of Warlocks mistakenly believing that the class was more theirs than of those of us who actually wanted to play an FF Summoner and were shocked to discover that 6.0 at least gave us an ARR level 50 Summoner like we should've gotten in 2013 if not the level 90 one replete with the classic Final Fantasy Pantheon, among other things.

I do not trust the current battle team to give us more than 3 new summons next expansion, if even that. Better them to be Shiva, Ramuh, and Leviathan than Hydaelyn's conspirators. Perhaps if we had gotten these, along with Alexander, etc. ages ago I might have been more amenable to your request. But as it stands now? The last thing I want to see on SMN is anything to with them.

There was no way to tell your post was serious or not anyway, but my position is as unchanging as ever. Though I will absolutely throw my support behind those same Warlocks who would see Bio and Miasma brought back over anything Twelve and Hydaelyn related. Of that be assured.

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Warlocks

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in FF 14?

Oh and I want to see MORE on Venat's backstory, the hints about her and the Twelve are..fascinating.

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I'm absolutely going to push back against people who want to summon the Twelve especially after what I learned about them from this raid.

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Ive got to ask.

Is there anything in this game you DONT hate?

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To be fair, the Twelve aren't Primals. It would make more sense if the Twelve were made into "summons" on a completely different Job class than Summoner.

I'm just hoping we get Leviathan, Ramuh, Shiva, Odin and possibly even King Moggle Mog next expansion for Summoner, personally, since it seems like it'll be quite some time before we possibly get a fully realized Summoner with all the primals and elder primals accessible as Egi and Demi Egi considering it took the devs this long just to give us a fully functioning traditional Summoner, while still only having access to three Egi and two Demi Egi.

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To be fair, the Twelve aren't Primals

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Which, had our "esteemed" colleague up there paid attention to the MSQ and ingame narrative, he would have already known

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Originally Posted by Soge01

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To be fair, the Twelve aren't Primals. It would make more sense if the Twelve were made into "summons" on a completely different Job class than Summoner.

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Hmm... you know I really like that idea. A Job based on the Twelve, perhaps a healer/support DPS who uses Astro-like blessings to buff others and Summoner-like skills to smite their foes?

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I'm just hoping we get Leviathan, Ramuh, Shiva, Odin and possibly even King Moggle Mog next expansion for Summoner, personally, since it seems like it'll be quite some time before we possibly get a fully realized Summoner with all the primals and elder primals accessible as Egi and Demi Egi considering it took the devs this long just to give us a fully functioning traditional Summoner, while still only having access to three Egi and two Demi Egi.

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I do hope we get that in the future, I really do. But then I have seen people asking for that since the 2.x patches so... I dunno if we ever will. Hopefully the 6.0 rework means they will be able to more freely add the other Primals, even if its only cosmetic.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Which, had our "esteemed" colleague up there paid attention to the MSQ and ingame narrative, he would have already known

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Though he doesn't outright say it, Avenyond does seem like he's aware the Twelve aren't Primals. Hence why he's pushing back on the idea of them becoming summons for Summoner in the first place.

Although... there is a version of the Twelve that are Primals~ I completely forgot about them, but the Twelve Luwibaton summons in order to try and seal Bahamut could be turned into summons for Summoner. Though basically relegated to defensive magick, such as casting party wide defensive boosts or upgrading our Carbuncle shield to allow for a more robust personal shield ability.

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

Hmm... you know I really like that idea. A Job based on the Twelve, perhaps a healer/support DPS who uses Astro-like blessings to buff others and Summoner-like skills to smite their foes?



I do hope we get that in the future, I really do. But then I have seen people asking for that since the 2.x patches so... I dunno if we ever will. Hopefully the 6.0 rework means they will be able to more freely add the other Primals, even if its only cosmetic.

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That would be neat! Our teacher could be the Twelve themselves and they each could teach us how to use a small portion of their power in order to protect the realm with their assistance without them not having to break their own rules and get personally involved. :3

Yeah, its a long shot. But then again, the devs have shocked us before. The new Summoner is a perfect example of that, so at least there's a small possibility they could pull that off at some point. Especially with, as you said, the 7.0 reworks possibly making jobs easier to better tinker around with without so much spaghetti code getting in the way. Though, I really hope the new summons later on will be more than a cosmetic update. That'd honestly would be disappointing. :(