So uh, wheres the long lasting content?

The end game is the friends we make along the way and the cat girls we pay gil to bees knees dance for our amusement.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I never claimed there wouldn't be an uproar. And those 2 scenarios don't fully equate. I'd be all for less dps options on healers if it meant I'd be healing more. Dps and tanks are the ones that would make sense to have numerous dps options. Moreso dps because thats their role. Taking away dps options from dps isn't akin to taking dps option away from healers. The equivalent would be taking dps options away from dps and taking healing options away from healers. I couldn't rightfully say it'd be good or bad if they took dps options away from dps n tanks. Pvp has shown me classes can still be mad fun even with less buttons. That's my honest opinion there

I never claimed objectivity with healers being fun. Again some like healers rn and have fun and others don't. People (including myself) arent healer mains due to us hating the role. There has to be some osrt of enjoyment there. It's ok for both of those groups dude. Stuff 50 and under? Sure I'd say it not exactly good that I play stuff like Dissidia while running stuff. Higher level stuff that isn't the case for me. Things are far more engaging n I do genuinely have fun healing. Again, THATS OK. Just like someone who wouldn't touch healer now with a 10 ft pole. THATS OK. It's all down to preference

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Its not okay though. Its not okay for an entire role to suffer just because some people are okay with it now. Again, adjustments and changes can be made that literally wouldnt affect those who enjoy it now but would improve the experience for others. As it is, including in high end content, healers dont even need to gcd heal. Also yes, that something that many people have agreed upon. If healers actually had to heal more, then we wouldnt need more dps options. The fact is thats not the case though, and yoshi p has explicitly lied in both shb and Ew now saying that healers would be required to heal more, when that objectively. Not to mention, this expansion dps and tanks got more mitigation and heals, which means reducing a healers job even further. Lets look at dungeon content for a second. Is it okay for healers to not have to heal whatsoever when a warrior is in the party? A healer doesnt even have to do its job with a certain tank? This is the problem im talking about. The issues with the entire role have gone unnoticed and hardly talked about by the devs. Issues that shouldnt exist at all.When they have literally only 4 people on the job design team and none of them are healers, that says a whole lot. So no, it really is NOT okay that many players are suffering.Ultimately it is comparable because almost everything in this game is a dps check.

YoshiP actually addressed healing in one of the recent letters and talked about more encounters where more healing is needed. At the time he spoke about it, it was likely too late to really change much of anything in what's come out recently. We can probably expect to start seeing something in the next batch of content.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Its not okay though. Its not okay for an entire role to suffer just because some people are okay with it now. Again, adjustments and changes can be made that literally wouldnt affect those who enjoy it now but would improve the experience for others. As it is, including in high end content, healers dont even need to gcd heal. Also yes, that something that many people have agreed upon. If healers actually had to heal more, then we wouldnt need more dps options. The fact is thats not the case though, and yoshi p has explicitly lied in both shb and Ew now saying that healers would be required to heal more, when that objectively. Not to mention, this expansion dps and tanks got more mitigation and heals, which means reducing a healers job even further. Lets look at dungeon content for a second. Is it okay for healers to not have to heal whatsoever when a warrior is in the party? A healer doesnt even have to do its job with a certain tank? This is the problem im talking about. The issues with the entire role have gone unnoticed and hardly talked about by the devs. Issues that shouldnt exist at all.When they have literally only 4 people on the job design team and none of them are healers, that says a whole lot. So no, it really is NOT okay that many players are suffering.Ultimately it is comparable because almost everything in this game is a dps check.

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Most of the game isn't a dps check dude. It's not uncommon but they certainly don't compose of most of the game. Any changes to ANY class would effect all players using it no matter how small. I've already said the moment healers get more options the community will pressure healers to use them. Let's not be dishonest about that here.

As far as ShB goes healers having to heal more WAS the case. Holminster Switch was a huge wake up call. The removal of things like protect helped change that. BUT as time went on we got use to how it was and the playerbase adjusted to that. The more you do something the better at it you'll get. I wouldn't say Yoshi lied at all as far as ShB goes. I don't remember him saying that about EW though. I dont recall many dps getting more mitigation and heals. Tanks 100% got beefier in EW but you can't take that away without angering those people so that's a no no. On that topic of War I've yet to find a War that could get through a w2w dungeon with no heals from me. Ik it's possible, I'm just saying I don't think it's as common as folks say generally.

Nobody is suffering either dude. You gotta stop with the hyperbolic stuff. Again healers could use some work but man...let folks who enjoy it as is rn do so. If the devs make changes great, if not there's 15 other classes to use. I want Nocturnal Sect to return and don't mess with Ast much anymore due to its absence. Does that upset me? Very much so, but it's clear the devs are done with that so I move on and use something else.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

YoshiP actually addressed healing in one of the recent letters and talked about more encounters where more healing is needed. At the time he spoke about it, it was likely too late to really change much of anything in what's come out recently. We can probably expect to start seeing something in the next batch of content.

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This is literally what healers have been hearing for the past 4 years lol

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Most of the game isn't a dps check dude. It's not uncommon but they certainly don't compose of most of the game. Any changes to ANY class would effect all players using it no matter how small. I've already said the moment healers get more options the community will pressure healers to use them. Let's not be dishonest about that here.

As far as ShB goes healers having to heal more WAS the case. Holminster Switch was a huge wake up call. The removal of things like protect helped change that. BUT as time went on we got use to how it was and the playerbase adjusted to that. The more you do something the better at it you'll get. I wouldn't say Yoshi lied at all as far as ShB goes. I don't remember him saying that about EW though. I dont recall many dps getting more mitigation and heals. Tanks 100% got beefier in EW but you can't take that away without angering those people so that's a no no. On that topic of War I've yet to find a War that could get through a w2w dungeon with no heals from me. Ik it's possible, I'm just saying I don't think it's as common as folks say generally.

Nobody is suffering either dude. You gotta stop with the hyperbolic stuff. Again healers could use some work but man...let folks who enjoy it as is rn do so. If the devs make changes great, if not there's 15 other classes to use. I want Nocturnal Sect to return and don't mess with Ast much anymore due to its absence. Does that upset me? Very much so, but it's clear the devs are done with that so I move on and use something else.

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Nobody is suffering? Now thats just blatant dishonesty and ill just end the conversation about this here because theres numerous 100+ pages of healer mains talking about how much theyre suffering. This has completely derailed my thread in any case so i'd rather we just drop the subject. Clearly have two different viewpoints of the game and i'd rather not have blatant dishonesty in a debate.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

This is literally what healers have been hearing for the past 4 years lol

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Well, at least wait to see what happens this time. To think that you've been going on like this all that time is pretty sad. Like really... Maybe you've been going about it the wrong way. Like this convo is never gonna get where it apparently needs to.

What kind of nonsense is this, Ikara? When should people decide that enough is enough and demand changes? The WHOLE role of healing has been shanked. Not one healer, not two. ALL OF THEM. If you're a player that is interested in engaging healing, you're out of luck. Here, have 2 skills that you'll use throughout the fight, with one of them being used every 30 seconds or so. Healers were gutted and they have EVERY right to complain. This is not a free to play game, Square is not developing ANYTHING out of the kindness of their hearts, so stop trying to shut down criticism.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Most of the game isn't a dps check dude. It's not uncommon but they certainly don't compose of most of the game. Any changes to ANY class would effect all players using it no matter how small. I've already said the moment healers get more options the community will pressure healers to use them. Let's not be dishonest about that here.

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bro you are straight on something, do you even play the same game as I do? clearly not because I barely see healers DPSing in normal endwalker level content and nobody says anything to them. Just today I had a Vanaspati run on BRD where I noticed our healer not casting Glare at all or even using their DoT because I was watching my DoT upkeep and never saw the Dia icon, which made me watch their cast bars. I didn't say anything because I don't care, it's normal content and we will eventually clear.
I have literally never in the years I have played this game EVER had anyone say anything about my DPS on healer or any other job, not even in Savage pugs where I would be in Discord with randos who would have nothing happen to them if they called me out for low DPS.

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Tanks 100% got beefier in EW but you can't take that away without angering those people so that's a no no.

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Well they sure didn't seem to care when they did it to healers, huh? It's almost like we're third class citizens and the devs don't care about what healers want?

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let folks who enjoy it as is rn do so.

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If forum posts saying that 1-1-1-1 sucks are stopping people from enjoying healers then they have a much bigger problem. This is a very weird line because there are 4 healers that have this riveting gameplay, posts on these forums aren't stopping you from enjoying it?

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Originally Posted by Anura

What kind of nonsense is this, Ikara? When should people decide that enough is enough and demand changes? The WHOLE role of healing has been shanked. Not one healer, not two. ALL OF THEM. If you're a player that is interested in engaging healing, you're out of luck. Here, have 2 skills that you'll use throughout the fight, with one of them being used every 30 seconds or so. Healers were gutted and they have EVERY right to complain. This is not a free to play game, Square is not developing ANYTHING out of the kindness of their hearts, so stop trying to shut down criticism.

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You people aren't reading Jesus christ. WHEN DID I SAY PEOPLE CANT COMPLAIN!?!? How tf is me saying healers being enjoyable or not is due to preference considered an attempt to shut down critism? I've said NUMEROUS TIMES to give critism. NUMEROUS. I swear yall won't be happy until every single person on this forum agrees with you on every single gripe you have. Yall claim yall want discussions but when folks try to discuss things you don't listen and inject what hasn't even been said into the conversation.

Square doing nothing out of kindness is an opinion. Not a fact. Learn that not fully agreeing/disagreeing doesn't equal an attempt to shut down criticism. If anything you are trying to shut down any opinion that doesn't aline with yours by claiming it's just "nonsense"

Also Nizzi (as I have no clue how to quote multiple posts in one), I don't think you're lying when you say healers you see don't dps. That's YOUR experience. I'm not gonna say you're playing a different game or that "you're on something" because your experience happens to be different than mine. Again personal jabs for literally no reason

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

bro you are straight on something, do you even play the same game as I do? clearly not because I barely see healers DPSing in normal endwalker level content and nobody says anything to them. Just today I had a Vanaspati run on BRD where I noticed our healer not casting Glare at all or even using their DoT because I was watching my DoT upkeep and never saw the Dia icon, which made me watch their cast bars. I didn't say anything because I don't care, it's normal content and we will eventually clear.
I have literally never in the years I have played this game EVER had anyone say anything about my DPS on healer or any other job, not even in Savage pugs where I would be in Discord with randos who would have nothing happen to them if they called me out for low DPS.



Well they sure didn't seem to care when they did it to healers, huh? It's almost like we're third class citizens and the devs don't care about what healers want?


If forum posts saying that 1-1-1-1 sucks are stopping people from enjoying healers then they have a much bigger problem. This is a very weird line because there are 4 healers that have this riveting gameplay, posts on these forums aren't stopping you from enjoying it?

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On pulls, you can't blame healers for not casting nukes. it can be hard to weave those in depending on the situation. Some people are more nervous about that stuff than others. Some people just take the healer role literally and do just that. Bosses are another story and maybe they could be politely informed that it's okay to throw some nukes and DoTs on those. People barely ever talk about anything ever, so people just assume nothing is wrong with what they're doing. People need good, constructive feedback. (The devs are no different.)