I thought people might be exaggerating about SMN

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Stop exaggerating too, it doesn't play itself.

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I mean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r3T1X0OXIU

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

And this post perfectly demonstrates why twisting a classic and widely beloved job like Summoner into something that it barely resembled for the past 8 years wasn't a good idea. It's given people a completely wrong image of the job combined with gameplay that was far removed from any of the other classes in game. Now that it's straightforward and on point, the people unfamiliar with its history refuse to acknowledge that.

It's not about only liking the "name" of the job its about what that name represents. Summoner represents Rydia, Yuna, Garnet, and one of the more iconic forms of magic in the entire series. It never needed to be Arithmetician, which is more what I felt I played back in Shadowbringers.

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Tell me what the name "Sage" represents then, how about "Dark Knight" or "Bard".

People always say SMN just casts a bunch of different colored ruins but they never say RDM casts a bunch of different colored jolts before its melee phase. Jolt, Fire, and Stone all do the same thing and all have the same cast time, but somehow they are all recognized as being distinctly different.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

And this post perfectly demonstrates why twisting a classic and widely beloved job like Summoner into something that it barely resembled for the past 8 years wasn't a good idea. It's given people a completely wrong image of the job combined with gameplay that was far removed from any of the other classes in game. Now that it's straightforward and on point, the people unfamiliar with its history refuse to acknowledge that.

It's not about only liking the "name" of the job its about what that name represents. Summoner represents Rydia, Yuna, Garnet, and one of the more iconic forms of magic in the entire series. It never needed to be Arithmetician, which is more what I felt I played back in Shadowbringers.

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Or, what you always and other seem to never acknowledge every time you bring up the "theme" arguement, is that players -did- enjoy the summoner class and -also- loved 14's iteration of it. To say that lump all previous versions summoner, 11 included, and then say that it now matches all of them is false. Summoners like Rydia, Yuna, and Garnet, were also your mages in their respective games. Black Mage and two White Mages. And in Garnet's respective game, she didn't even learn all of the WHM in her game; Eiko shored up the total spell list.

Just because you and others make the conscious decision to see the old SMN as some grotesque caricature of the class doesn't mean that others did not equally see it as a new, different, and unique taking fitting for the world and game that it was created in. I enjoy playing monk even though I'm not suplexing enemies like Sabin or Zell, nuking the ground with a punch and calling forth a dolphin with a Shoryuken like Tifa, or sprinting around the planet and hitting with the mother of all haymakers like Zell (all three of them staple characters of the monk class), but I still can and do enjoy 14's monk out of respect for this being both a different game and this game's version of the class.

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Originally Posted by mathias-merodach

Or, what you always and other seem to never acknowledge every time you bring up the "theme" arguement, is that players -did- enjoy the summoner class and -also- loved 14's iteration of it. To say that lump all previous versions summoner, 11 included, and then say that it now matches all of them is false. Summoners like Rydia, Yuna, and Garnet, were also your mages in their respective games. Black Mage and two White Mages. And in Garnet's respective game, she didn't even learn all of the WHM in her game; Eiko shored up the total spell list.

Just because you and others make the conscious decision to see the old SMN as some grotesque caricature of the class doesn't mean that others did not equally see it as a new, different, and unique taking fitting for the world and game that it was created in. I enjoy playing monk even though I'm not suplexing enemies like Sabin or Zell, nuking the ground with a punch and calling forth a dolphin with a Shoryuken like Tifa, or sprinting around the planet and hitting with the mother of all haymakers like Zell (all three of them staple characters of the monk class), but I still can and do enjoy 14's monk out of respect for this being both a different game and this game's version of the class.

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....now that you bring that up. I kinda want that now. Why doesnt Monk have some of those moves? Granted you do get a bit of Sabin's Blitzes in FFXIV. SE, gives us the option suplex our enemies or spawn dolphins with an uppercut!

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

I can play RDM blind. It was the only way for me to do a boss without UI (last boss of 85, the marks only appear on my screen when I have it off). That wouldn't have worked with a SMN, who doesn't have a complete autopilot rotation. And yet, and despite having a res and a heal that actually heals, RDM is still ahead in damage.

So yeah, I don't think SMN is in a bad spot gameplay-wise, I think it needs some potency buffs.

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If you seriously are trying to argue that SMN is more active than RDM, you're beyond help and there's no point in trying to argue with you.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

People always say SMN just casts a bunch of different colored ruins but they never say RDM casts a bunch of different colored jolts before its melee phase. Jolt, Fire, and Stone all do the same thing and all have the same cast time, but somehow they are all recognized as being distinctly different.

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What I think more people like is some form of reactionary gameplay as well which RDM provides through its procs, not forgetting that you're managing a resource (albiet a very easy one to manage) to get it to 40,50 and double it or just straight up 100 manually, but what I mean is that when your skills proc you can decide which you want to use, and then when it comes to melee phase you have some nice animations going off ending in your burst, while summoner is almost a full auto-pilot rotation where literally nothing changes.

I thought SMN was alright pre-patch especially as you got higher level, now it's just so boring and simplistic I gave it up almost instantly, fortunately I leveled up a BLM while doing the SMN and I still enjoy the BLM since it didn't get gutted with no weird skill changes, flashy skills and having to actually pay attention to both my mana and resource bar in order to keep my damage up and making sure no mechanics or movement sections cause my damage to completely halt making me have to setup again etc, I just wish SMN had some brain power requirement to play it.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

People always say SMN just casts a bunch of different colored ruins but they never say RDM casts a bunch of different colored jolts before its melee phase. Jolt, Fire, and Stone all do the same thing and all have the same cast time, but somehow they are all recognized as being distinctly different.

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Allow me to elucidate. Redmage's 5 basic spells all have different effects and times where they are optimal to use. You will only use Verthunder 3 and Veraero 3 when you have an instant (dual/swift cast or acceleration), you will only use Verfire or Verstone when you have a proc (from acceleration or 50% from Verthunder/aero/holy/flare), and you will only use Jolt 2 when you have none of the above. Aside from that each spell gives different amounts of each mana. These factors alone give you a decision to make just about every GCD, even when the decision is obvious. This is also ignoring other optimizations like not drifting CDs, aligning Contre-Sixte and Fleche with the GCDs you will not be casting, etc. etc. SMN will just slam out every Gemshine without any thought or nuance at all barring Ifrit, where the only thought is can I cast for 2.7-5.4~ seconds. You don't even have to worry about drifting or aligning anything because it all piles up neatly at your 2min window.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

If you seriously are trying to argue that SMN is more active than RDM, you're beyond help and there's no point in trying to argue with you.

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Be constructive, not rude or belittling

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

Be constructive, not rude or belittling

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Just how oversensitive are you people?