Summoner is a Final Fantasy 14 summoner (not a warlock wow clone)

Yeah I feel like Red Mage will get shit on and it's going to be BLM > SMN > RDM on the virtue that RDM can Raise frequently and can offheal. When given the mobility I feel it should be BLM(cast times) > RDM(dualcast) > SMN(instants).

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Originally Posted by Roda

If I recall correctly, there's room for one ruin III and one ruin IV within one 60 second demi->Gemphase loop.
(Remember, ALL of your Summon X actions are SPELLS not abilities, so they trigger a gcd and prolong your time in their phase for that amount, and the cooldown for trance starts ticking as soon as you enter it.)
Bahamut phase: 15 seconds
Ifrit phase: 13.1 = (Summon ifrit (2.5s) + Ruby rites 2(2.8) + Crimson cyclone & crimson strike 2(2.5)) (Or, 12.8 if you swiftcast one of the rites)
Garuda phase: 12 = (Summon garuda (2.5s) + emerald rites 4(1.5) + slipstream (3.5))
Titan phase: 12.5 = (Summon titan (2.5s) + topaz rites 4(2.5))
(why is)Ruin IV(still a thing) = 2.5s
Which all together is 55.1s (54.8 if you swiftcasted ruby rite)

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looks about right , intersting thing about spell speed is that if we go into that we can put another/s Demi phases into the encounter boosting our dmg , but ....what happens to trick attack/other buffs window ? thats need to be kept in mind gaining 2-3 phases is nice but if only the 1 and the 3rd are on dps window...maybe isnt that good.

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Originally Posted by Roda

I am also using the recast timers with zero spellspeed(or cast time, if it's longer than the recast, basically just how much time you're NOT pushing other buttons.)
If you're looking at media tour tooltips, remember, they had spellspeed on their gear which both changes the cast times and the recast times of every ability that isn't connected to aetherflow, astral flow, or the carbuncle, which means the demi phases get pushed closer together as their cooldowns are affected by spellspeed. (Aaaannnd that means, the more spellspeed you have, the more potential you have to lose a ruin 3, since garuda's gcds (that aren't slipstream) literally cannot go any lower since they've hit the floor of 1.5s)

And remember, you want to fit all the damage you can under buffs, so that means you will be lining up your demi phases and aetherflow spending with those buffs. (Searing light, and whatever group buffs you have) the timers for all of those things line up, so you really shouldn't be sitting on stacks during the demi phases or spending them outside of those phases unless something has gone seriously wrong.

And just wait until we get hit with the range AND utility AND now mobility tax. :T

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quoted u too soon i guess hahaha

Oh they're definitely gonna keep smn strong for now gotta entice people to play this whole new job they spent all that time reworking. But later on... idk. It'll depend on how they perceive the execution of the few hardcasts we do have vs the availability of instants during the rest of the rotation. I'm hoping they'll grow out of mobility = bad raw damage...

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

looks about right , intersting thing about spell speed is that if we go into that we can put another/s Demi phases into the encounter boosting our dmg , but ....what happens to trick attack/other buffs window ? thats need to be kept in mind gaining 2-3 phases is nice but if only the 1 and the 3rd are on dps window...maybe isnt that good.

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I said it was cursed xD

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Originally Posted by MercuryD

At least I keep my sparkle dog!

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All glory be to the sparkle dog.

Guess the only thing to do now is enjoy the final days left until 2.X ~ 5.X SMN is put down.

We don't really have a thread for SMN so I'll just write here.

Sooo... SMN already desperately needs oGCDs and they reduced them even more by merging the two Enkindle. While 1300p is juicy... I want to press buttons.

Thoughts?

We need more than just hollow ogcds to push as soon as they're up. We need things to track, manage, and build outside of ABCs. Cause my main worry is that its gonna feel like the game is playing you more than you're playing the game. (Have I mentioned how much I hate demis being mere cooldowns to wait for, and gems being gcd checklists?) What is there is a start but it just doesn't look finished. (At least not fully realized)

It just feels like we're missing a whole mechanic to tie it all together, and one or two nuke ogcds isn't gonna resolve that.

/end sleepy rambling

I genuinely feel like this feels like a START to be built upon. I like the logical evolution of the job from low to high level. I think it will be fun, I don't care for complexity in the slightest. Hopefully they build up to more using this system as a ground work.

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Originally Posted by MercuryD

I genuinely feel like this feels like a START to be built upon. I like the logical evolution of the job from low to high level. I think it will be fun, I don't care for complexity in the slightest. Hopefully they build up to more using this system as a ground work.

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Mmh, people said the same thing at the start of Shadowbringers with Machinist, that it was surely just a base and they'd build on it for this expansion. And what did they get? One extra GCD that literally just does damage and doesn't interact with their kit.

So, new summoner is pretty rDPS-feeling which is...certainly different.

Also, it is entirely possible to clip Searing Light (devotion). TL;DR of a way to replicate it. Movement + shield + searing light + summon bahamut/phoenix.

I tried during a dungeon to searing light immediately before summon while stationary, doing a ruin 3->searing light->summon bahamut (so minimum and expected amount of use) and it didn't clip once. It seems you have to explicitly go out of your way to clip the pet commands. Even if you're stationary doing something like Ruin 4->Shield->Searing->Summon it doesn't clip. I need more testing of movement E.G. ruin 2->searing->demi but, again, I kind of tried that and it didn't clip, as long as you don't overload the pet.

As a note, the pet being required to shield is a problem because it's down for 35 seconds out of every minute (15s for demis, 5s each for the summons) so the barrier is honestly almost as bad as it was in ShB.

More or less, this is a lot better than ShB excepting that barrier is just a bad ability, again, due to anti-synergy with the base rotation.

The class is simple in theory, but in practice it's constantly changing up the rotation. Even the GCD difference between a level 80 Garuda vs level 80 Titan feels very different in pacing and feel.

As for problems of the class that are obvious. The class has anxiety bars. You can squeeze 6 Fountain of Fires and Astral Impulses during DWT/FBT, but latency and slight timing means you can drop an entire cast. Most classes went AWAY from anxiety bars, it's weird this one went towards it when so much of the class..isn't. It really should be fixed to make it consistent and not prone to lag inconsistencies. As a note, the class also probably does want spell speed now.

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Originally Posted by Roda

We need more than just hollow ogcds to push as soon as they're up. We need things to track, manage, and build outside of ABCs. Cause my main worry is that its gonna feel like the game is playing you more than you're playing the game. (Have I mentioned how much I hate demis being mere cooldowns to wait for, and gems being gcd checklists?) What is there is a start but it just doesn't look finished. (At least not fully realized)

It just feels like we're missing a whole mechanic to tie it all together, and one or two nuke ogcds isn't gonna resolve that.

/end sleepy rambling

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Yeah, of course, but we had two demi oGCDs and we lost one after the Media Tour. What's the point of playing SMN if I get less lasers?

That being said, yes, but we already knew it. There's no mechanic and we didn't need to get our hands on new SMN to confirm it.