Healers who rescue pull tanks into mobs.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

It's not the norm, though. Like I said, plenty of healers ASK for big pulls (which intuits that it's not the norm), and plenty of Healers also don't care about small pulls. This isn't a community driven, community enforced prerogative; this is you having an expectation and not having the social aptitude to communicate it.

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That doesn't mean it's not the norm at all. Out of the hundreds and hundreds (thousands?) of dungeons I've run over the last five years here I don't think I've seen healers have to ask for larger pulls at the start more than 12 times. Because larger pulls are the norm and have been for years.

The only time I see a healer asking for larger pulls mid dungeon isn't because it isn't the norm, but because the tank is performing sub-par and doing small pulls.

I've got to ask man, why do you want to do smaller pulls? They're absolutely mind numbing. It can't be perceived danger, as even if you're at (and often a bit below) the dungeon's general ilevel there's still not much danger in a multi group pull if you're properly playing your class. Hell, you can multi-pull in a trust dungeon and be fine with the brain dead NPCs. So what gives?

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

It's not the norm, though. Like I said, plenty of healers ASK for big pulls (which intuits that it's not the norm), and plenty of Healers also don't care about small pulls. This isn't a community driven, community enforced prerogative; this is you having an expectation and not having the social aptitude to communicate it.

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Or they're asking for big pulls because the tank isn't doing what most people do.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I think what's fun for everyone should be just as much of a consideration as what's most efficient. Plenty of tanks don't like being yanked around; plenty of DPS would rather not have the pull abruptly relocated after they've popped their CDs and places AoEs because they thought the pull was done.

This is all why if you have a preference you ASK, instead of simply forcing it on everyone.

As for my decision to retaliate, I never argued it was the nicest or most productive thing to do. I just feel like it's justified.

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Taking "fun" as a consideration can be a slippery slope though compared to efficiency since fun is very subjective. People may consider freestyling their abilties in endgame content as fun while it's crippling their performance (ice mage etc.), does that mean it should be tolerated just because it's fun? If you're playing with people you know (friends etc.) it doesn't matter cause you've signed up for it in that case and you can decide with them what kind of fun is tolerated. With strangers though? "Fun" is a slippery criteria and efficiency, being objective, trumps it imo when weighing what to consider first.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Or they're asking for big pulls because the tank isn't doing what most people do.

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They ask at the beginning of the run.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Taking "fun" as a consideration can be a slippery slope though compared to efficiency since fun is very subjective. People may consider freestyling their abilties in endgame content as fun while it's crippling their performance (ice mage etc.), does that mean it should be tolerated just because it's fun? If you're playing with people you know (friends etc.) it doesn't matter cause you've signed up for it in that case and you can decide with them what kind of fun is tolerated. With strangers though? "Fun" is a slippery criteria and efficiency, being objective, trumps it imo when weighing what to consider first.

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That's why we have vote kick. If we have a firm disagreement on what's fun then the approach gets put to a vote. I find this method of assuming maximum efficiency and forcing it on everyone through disruptive gameplay mechanics to be incredibly rude. Seriously, if you REALLY care about maximum efficiency ask for big pulls in the 10 seconds before the instance even allows you to move forward.

Yeah, can't really agree with "using Rescue to force someone to move at your pace is polite". It's really rude to force your choices on to someone else that way.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

They ask at the beginning of the run.

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Then at that point they just letting the tank know that they want big pulls. They could be one of the few unlucky people who have frequently gotten tanks who just won't do big/normal pulls and they're sick of it and just say that as their opening line for the dungeon.

Wall to wall pulls have been a thing since Wanderer's Palace back when Tomestones of Philosophy were a thing and Warriors were completely useless as tanks... though that was just for Darklight gear and crafting stuff. Tomestones didn't really see a real purpose until the Animus step came out and then people would only spam Brayflox Longstop Hard because that dungeon let you pull everything from the very beginning to the first boss, then everything from the first boss to the second boss (most people pre-made their group and just left at the second boss and then re-entered).

Honestly if you want a tank to pull big after they pull small packs just try to encourage them. 99% of the time they pull small bc they have no confidence, are new to the content or aren't as experienced with their job. It's hilarious that tank anxiety is a thing but apparently in this thread this totally gets thrown overboard.

What's also redundant to bring up is "why are we talking about healers doing this when I died more times to tanks shrieking me!!!" Just because this one thing hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it's not worth to talk about. This is not a goddamn competition between tanks and healers .

maybe they can "lessen" the rescue rude pull by making it no animation lock?

everytime you get pulled, you get this "slippery/stagger/almost fell down" animation, they could just delete it so whatever attack you do when the "rescue" happen, you still doing it instead of getting interrupted because of that animation.

Tank anxiety stems for one's lack of affinity for leadership, or in this game, the illusion of leadership, and really caring a whole lot about not making a mistake so that they don't kill everyone. I can't see that as being hilarious.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

So, if I get pulled into aggro range am I immediately on the aggro list, or would the mobs simply kill the healer and walk away if I were to quickly lunge back to the original group of enemies without touching anything? Does 1 person in the group pulling automatically put everyone else on the aggro list?

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Just use Shirk on the offending healer.