Are role actions a nerf?

I personally love the new cross-role skill system. This helps keep our hotbars compact, and create customized builds for different content and/or team compositions.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I personally love the new cross-role skill system. This helps keep our hotbars compact, and create customized builds for different content and/or team compositions.

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It doesn't though, with what we are told the meta will be setting everything on your bar and continuously switching in and out abilities depending what fight you are doing. I am not even sure I want to play healer anymore because of this. Someone dies? raise, switch in protect, switch out. fight not needing esuna? switch out, switch in when someone has a detrimental effect, switch out again.

Did SE pair up with nintendo or something? =/

This

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Originally Posted by Hamada

continuously switching in and out abilities depending what fight you are doing. I

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is exactly what

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

and create customized builds for different content and/or team compositions.

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means.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

It doesn't though, with what we are told the meta will be setting everything on your bar and continuously switching in and out abilities depending what fight you are doing. I am not even sure I want to play healer anymore because of this. Someone dies? raise, switch in protect, switch out. fight not needing esuna? switch out, switch in when someone has a detrimental effect, switch out again.

Did SE pair up with nintendo or something? =/

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... I am confused by your response.

You begin by stating that it doesn't result in creating builds for different team compositions or encounters. Then you follow it up by listing examples of using different builds in different encounters.

I think there will be a few skills that are pretty much an always take (i.e. Swiftcast + Lucid Dream). That said, even those could be debatable. You could not take swiftcast if say you have it assigned in your raid team that only the Off Heals / SMN does raises (how my static works currently) and maybe MP isn't an issue, because of Mana Shift from the BLM or Ballad from the BRD.

You could look at an encounter and be like, for this, I don't need to debuff, so let's not bring Esuna and I'll bring Cleric Stance for the added DPS burst on adds. Maybe you plan to use Rescue on your BLM to help them get an extra nuke off on the boss to help hit a DPS check and you then rescue them into position for a mechanic. Maybe you don't need rescue and you don't slot it.

I can just see every single one of the skills as situational, and could be planned to use differently with your team.

I can also see a default set of skills to use for the average DF party: Protect, Swiftcast, Lucid Dream, Esuna and Eye for an Eye.

Personally, this is some of the best news for me. I have wanted a system that supports builds/customization for years, and I am glad to see they've added it - even if it's not quite as much as I'd like.

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Originally Posted by Aramina

This


is exactly what


means.

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And let the arguments began on we are in cutters cry wth didnt u esuna my debuff oh i didnt have it, start of a dungeon everyone waiting on protect oh i dont have that one, yea that doesnt sound fun to me at all. I like my hot bars to stay the same I get into the game not settin up my hot bars for every instance

I honestly would rather have skill bloat than having to change my hotbar before and after every instance

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

And let the arguments began on we are in cutters cry wth didnt u esuna my debuff oh i didnt have it, start of a dungeon everyone waiting on protect oh i dont have that one, yea that doesnt sound fun to me at all. I like my hot bars to stay the same I get into the game not settin up my hot bars for every instance

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Did ya miss the part where we said you can slot them based on composition and what is needed for the content or are you ignoring it because it doesn't suit the dialogue you are trying to push?

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Originally Posted by Derio

I honestly would rather have skill bloat than having to change my hotbar before and after every instance

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Well, I would rather have Hallowed Ground on my Summoner. It doesn't mean I think it'd make a good game :P

The skills are pretty situational, that if you go with the basic 5, you're good for most content. This allows for customization and fine tuning with your static, so that you can each specialize. In most content, you're not missing much without Cleric Stance, Divine Seal, Break, Surecast or Rescue. So just bring Protect, Swiftcast, Lucid Dream, Esuna and Eye for an Eye.

About the only thing that has me concerned is the muscle memory aspect, since gamers will naturally develop it over years. Theoretically though it might not be that bad. I'm interested in the new system.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

... I am confused by your response.

You begin by stating that it doesn't result in creating builds for different team compositions or encounters. Then you follow it up bylisting examples of using different builds in different encounters.

I think there will be a few skills that are pretty much an always take (i.e. Swiftcast + Lucid Dream). That said, even those could be debatable. You could not take swiftcast if say you have it assigned in your raid team that only the Off Heals / SMN does raises (how my static works currently) and maybe MP isn't an issue, because of Mana Shift from the BLM or Ballad from the BRD.

You could look at an encounter and be like, for this, I don't need to debuff, so let's not bring Esuna and I'll bring Cleric Stance for the added DPS burst on adds. Maybe you plan to use Rescue on your BLM to help them get an extra nuke off on the boss to help hit a DPS check and you then rescue them into position for a mechanic. Maybe you don't need rescue and you don't slot it.

I can just see every single one of the skills as situational, and could be planned to use differently with your team.

I can also see a default set of skills to use for the average DF party: Protect, Swiftcast, Lucid Dream, Esuna and Eye for an Eye.

Personally, this is some of the best news for me. I have wanted a system that supports builds/customization for years, and I am glad to see they've added it - even if it's not quite as much as I'd like.

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You are not looking at things from the protective I am! You are asking too much for majority of the playrbase! OF COURSE! this is good for the upper skilled:

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Originally Posted by Hamada

I underlined this for A REASON! Take a look at this:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3354919

Read every post in that thread. There is NO WAY you can sit here and tell me requiring the switching abilities in the middle of runs is not a skill roadblock for most.

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It is not going to be fun to enter in a new expansion with new adjustments to jobs when 80% of the population will be unable to figure out how to use the job changes, let alone figure out what abilities to use. There is a 969 page thread for proof on this. Even gearing correctly is too difficult for most, and why they are changing the right side to be based on main stat to begin with. However I am still worried about ilevel dodging weapons and the left like we seen as well.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

Personally I think this whole change is going to backfire hilariously.

I mean, think about it: SE has stated they want to (a) reduce button bloat, and (b) make the system more accessible / usable for casual players. Laudable goals, both, assuming they can be effectively achieved. But, it is arguable the nature of the role-based system might worsen both. Consider:

1.) Role-based skills are broad enough that it appears frequent swapping between skill combinations is encouraged. This means that users must integrate most or all of the Role-based skills onto their hotbars, rather than just the five I'd use now, all of which are relatively static.

2.) Role-based skills being flexible and guaranteed means the floodgates will be opened for players being told how to play. Think that situation is bad now? Wait until tanks start bitching at healers for not having Esuna selected. Wait until people wipe because the tank forgot to respec from a damage-oriented setup they were using for solo'ing. This isn't going to lead to a friendlier environment for casual or forgetful players.

Don't get me wrong, I think the role-based skill system is potentially a good idea - but it doesn't fix the problem. They've essentially removed the need to level other jobs, but shifted even MORE crucial abilities into optional skills. Healers in 3.x need to have Swiftcast, but now they need to make damned sure they've selected Esuna, too - and heaven help them if they don't. This would have worked a hell of a lot better if the role-based skills were optional things that gave non-crucial, but nonetheless useful, abilities. They should have behaved like Merit Point abilities in FFXI. Hell, they could have even allowed for the selection of a role-based Trait or two, something powerful, so people could really customize how their class felt. Instead, they've worsened almost all the problems of the cross-class system; the only thing they fixed (and it's debatable if this is a good thing or not) is the fact that players no longer have to level separate jobs they might not be interested in.

Truly a missed opportunity.

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With what we are told, it is not a good system, at all You are missing the point and only reflecting what you can do with it. It is a skill roadblock for most, and they will not enjoy being told what to do by those that do, again this is repeated over and over that thread as well, and pointed out as a concern in that quote.