Should Cleric Stance be disabled in party instances?

I have had my CS horror stories... Low level, dungeon, let fairy heal, eeeeep! tank is dead because I forgot I wasnt a SMN... High level dungeon, everything going fine, then suddenly the DPS stand in the bad, I think I switched CS off but nope ... Phew no one died!

I've only recently returned after nearly a year afk, slowly finding my comfort zone with DPSing on SCH again. Today I found myself muttering at Eos because she was just flittering happily up and down whilst I was flinging out broils; guess fairies are offering guidance on what to do if we lost Cleric Stance: hover charmingly, flutter our assets, and smile?

This thread needs to be locked or deleted.
Bunch of nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Elladie

Today I found myself muttering at Eos because she was just flittering happily up and down whilst I was flinging out broils; guess fairies are offering guidance on what to do if we lost Cleric Stance: hover charmingly, flutter our assets, and smile?

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xD Make sure you're manually casting her embrace when the tank is above 80% health. She won't cast otherwise. The earlier you start embracing, the more embraces she can do before the Tank's hp becomes low the longer you can DPS without intervening with a lustrate, if you have to at all. Plus, each time she casts embrace you have a chance to proc the Spell speed buff, which has a decent effect to your dps if it lines up with a DoT refresh and especially a bane.

I liked the part about fluttering our assets. xD Good analogy.

i think when they remove unused and unnecessary skills with 4.0 - they should remove cleric stance as one of the unnecessary skills...

just scale the damage from mind and increase all dps potencys by 10%

then the whole healer dps-thing is easier to handle (and they wanted to make the classes easier), it will close the gap between hardcore players who can stance dance in all the content and casual players who are not comfortable with stance dancing in savage (closing the gap is one of the reasons they want to make changes in 4.0) and of course - the whole healing and dpsing at the same time will be less clunky.

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Originally Posted by Tint

i think when they remove unused and unnecessary skills with 4.0 - they should remove cleric stance as one of the unnecessary skills...

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The complains against CS are not really about the stance dancing but about that people have to try to actually play the job efficiently and contribute to party dps, instead of just netflix and randomly casting any healing skills every 10 sec. Even if SE do what you said, they will keep complaining (even more then) about having nothing to do in dungeons, and dps is not what a healer suppose to do; "I rolled a healer to heal, i am good at healing, you cannot make me do anything else!"

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Originally Posted by Normalizer

The complains against CS are not really about the stance dancing but about that people have to try to actually play the job efficiently and contribute to party dps, instead of just netflix and randomly casting any healing skills every 10 sec. Even if SE do what you said, they will keep complaining (even more then) about having nothing to do in dungeons, and dps is not what a healer suppose to do; "I rolled a healer to heal, i am good at healing, you cannot make me do anything else!"

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Someone really needs to murder this talking point. This isn't anything close to being about efficiency. Any honest DPS has plenty of horror stories about healers in their parties who get really ugly about having to click off Cleric's Stance and actually play their role instead of watching their FFLogs stats.

Having said that, I don't see much feasibility in disabling it in parties unless, as has been mentioned, SE allows MND to determine damage rather than INT.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Someone really needs to murder this talking point. This isn't anything close to being about efficiency. Any honest DPS has plenty of horror stories about healers in their parties who get really ugly about having to click off Cleric's Stance and actually play their role instead of watching their FFLogs stats.

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I don't get the relevance. I thought we had already established that bad players would be bad.

If we promote the reasoning that tools are bad because players will make poor choices with them, then we won't have many buttons left to click.

The conversation is very much about efficiency, and healers who strictly heal aren't being efficient or particularly helpful in a game like this (i.e. one without whack-a-mole healing requirements and strictly limited MP).

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Originally Posted by Yona87

This thread needs to be locked or deleted.
Bunch of nonsense.

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I love how all your posts in this thread have been this XD <3

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Snip.

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I'd argue that argument in particular is more aimed at trolls, rather than people intending to help out. Right now it's ridiculously easy for trolls to let everyone die around them because of the excuses that the community forces healers to dps, regardless of whether or not they're comfortable with it.

Right now, healers are ridiculously easy to play offensively, because of how overpowered their individual heals actually are, so it's very easy for people to know how to dps without having a clue how to actually keep people alive, due to the excessively simple rotation.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I'd argue that argument in particular is more aimed at trolls, rather than people intending to help out. Right now it's ridiculously easy for trolls to let everyone die around them because of the excuses that the community forces healers to dps, regardless of whether or not they're comfortable with it.

Right now, healers are ridiculously easy to play offensively, because of how overpowered their individual heals actually are, so it's very easy for people to know how to dps without having a clue how to actually keep people alive, due to the excessively simple rotation.

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I don't see that the community is forcing anyone to do anything. I highly doubt that forum-goers are anywhere close to a representative sample of public opinion, and even among those of us who participate in the forums there is some difference of opinion.

If players are healing poorly, it's because they lack skill and/or will, not because they are buckling to some overwhelming pressure to DPS regardless of whether or not they are ready to do so. As you say, healing is not difficult in and of itself; someone who is choosing to neglect their primary responsibility is a bad player, not necessarily a comment on job design.